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Water levels and the rest of the season?
- Thread starter spitndrum
- Start date
I love how you try to go back and change what you say to reflect on yourself rather than the person you post about.lol i love it.Guess when you said RATHER THAN YOUR OWN SELFISh NEEDS you were talking about yourself.You do that all the time.
Be man enough to stand by what you say rather than changing your point every other post.i know what you meant and you did too so don't try to turn your words now that you know I don't hunt E Tn.
Be man enough to stand by what you say rather than changing your point every other post.i know what you meant and you did too so don't try to turn your words now that you know I don't hunt E Tn.
Setterman
Well-Known Member
RAFI said:
Wrong again, not trying to manage the state. Just offering up my opinion. I am not turning anything around on you. Keep in mind that you were the one which started the lashing out at individuals, I simply offered up my opinion. Which you followed by attacking me.
Once again, offer up your views, and what you think is right, leave the personal hysteria behind, and join in the discussion.
Setterman
Well-Known Member
RAFI said:
What are you talking about, more hysteria? I edited the post to add something to it, rather then make another post. I certainly don't know what you are talking about, and frankly you don't seem to either. Trust me I am more then man enough to stand behind what I say, but first I have to say it.
Again, stop with the hysteria and personal attacking, join in a discussion and make some educated statements about how the flooding might or might not affect the turkey hatch. Or make some educated statements about how it might affect the population in the years to come.
There is no reason, for you to only lash out at others continuously, unless you have nothing pertinent to add to this topic.
No one cares about how much you hate me etc, including me, and no one cares to read that crap. However, it does provide me with some humor.
Folks will find interest in seeing a different perspective, and hearing your opinions of the situation. So once again, morph into a man, and have a conversation about an issue. It is okay if your views differ from mine.
Winchester
Well-Known Member
I dont think we are going to have much impact on the nesting here in East TN. or atleast not nearly as much as the flatlands of middle and west Tn. I also agree that it may still be early enough for many of the hens to lay a second clutch and be o.k. if the rains and floods dont continue farther into Spring. Based on how things have been handled in the past I dont think we will see any change in regs regardless of the flooding or inclement weater, etc., for atleast a year.
JohnnyBond
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2008
- Messages
- 35,246
:crazy:
Gray Anderson is the TWRA turkey biologist. That's credentials enough for me.
Here is his take on the situation:
"Hens will renest. We are at our peak "start of incubation" period right now - usually about May 1 the majority of nesting hens have just begun the 28-30 days of incubation. What the rains did to the hens on the nest is unknown - obviously some have been flooded out but the ones on higher ground should have sat tight for the 2 days of rain (no impact to those nests).
The renesting issue. We commonly see a second peak of nesting activity about 2 weeks after the main peak (this peak is driven by renesting hens). Turkeys have the ability to renest but the "speed" or "capability" of the renest depends on the individual hens fitness, physiology and timing. Fitness means she must have enough food and nutrient reserves to lay another clutch of eggs - should not be a problem in TN. Physiology - hens internal organs change dramatically through the breeding season - once she has begun to incubate, her oviduct and other associated "egg making parts" start to get smaller and become unable to produce eggs (we are talking weeks not hours). The change can be reversed if the hen is not too far along in incubation and the season is not too far progressed. Timing means all this has to happen within the breeding/brooding season - nest destruction late in the season and a hen may not renest because she could have a brood in October - nest destruction too late in the hen's physiological process and the hen may not have the time to start the egg making process all over again with the breeding season.
So the good news is we are relatively early in the nesting season - hens flooded out should be capable of renesting. There may be some hens that may not be capable of a renesting effort but I am not worried about all out loss of productivity for 2010. We will learn a great deal about what has happened with our annual summer turkey surveys this June, July and August - I will try and make that information widely available for all concerned turkey hunters.
Renest clutches are usually an egg or 2 smaller but that should be no issue for the population.
I hope this helps - be happy to answer any other questions too. "
Here is his take on the situation:
"Hens will renest. We are at our peak "start of incubation" period right now - usually about May 1 the majority of nesting hens have just begun the 28-30 days of incubation. What the rains did to the hens on the nest is unknown - obviously some have been flooded out but the ones on higher ground should have sat tight for the 2 days of rain (no impact to those nests).
The renesting issue. We commonly see a second peak of nesting activity about 2 weeks after the main peak (this peak is driven by renesting hens). Turkeys have the ability to renest but the "speed" or "capability" of the renest depends on the individual hens fitness, physiology and timing. Fitness means she must have enough food and nutrient reserves to lay another clutch of eggs - should not be a problem in TN. Physiology - hens internal organs change dramatically through the breeding season - once she has begun to incubate, her oviduct and other associated "egg making parts" start to get smaller and become unable to produce eggs (we are talking weeks not hours). The change can be reversed if the hen is not too far along in incubation and the season is not too far progressed. Timing means all this has to happen within the breeding/brooding season - nest destruction late in the season and a hen may not renest because she could have a brood in October - nest destruction too late in the hen's physiological process and the hen may not have the time to start the egg making process all over again with the breeding season.
So the good news is we are relatively early in the nesting season - hens flooded out should be capable of renesting. There may be some hens that may not be capable of a renesting effort but I am not worried about all out loss of productivity for 2010. We will learn a great deal about what has happened with our annual summer turkey surveys this June, July and August - I will try and make that information widely available for all concerned turkey hunters.
Renest clutches are usually an egg or 2 smaller but that should be no issue for the population.
I hope this helps - be happy to answer any other questions too. "
Lawrence
Well-Known Member
IMO
This is why you cant set the limits before they
know how the hatch will turn out.
This is why you cant set the limits before they
know how the hatch will turn out.
Winchester
Well-Known Member
Doug, with this info becoming available each and every year, why are the limits/season set each year BEFORE this vital info is looked at?
Would it not be much more sound management to simply delay the limit/season setting until late Summer, and base it on the results of these studies you mentioned? Just asking and trying to understand the steps that are in place now.
spitndrum
Well-Known Member
1 buck limit :whistle:
Winchester said:
Those weren't my words, they are Mr. Anderson's.
But I agree somewhat with what you are saying, and I would hope that they are flexible enough to make a change if they discovered something drastic after the surveys. However, I don't think he is expecting to see a catastrophic decline.
Concerning when the seasons are set, my opinion is that they do it that early so they can include the turkey info in the hunting guide and they don't have to print a separate turkey guide as they have done in the past. Saves some money.
careful with that stick BigGameGuy
Well-Known Member
Winchester said:
Though the season is set in early summer nothing bars us from reopening the big game proclamation should there be a major event that has ramifications on regional populations.
We just haven't had such an event that we know of...
Don't worry, we'll be looking at the data closely, especially this summer's brood survey.
Setterman
Well-Known Member
I saw this post on tnturkey, and it is an excellent post. I agree with his take.VolDoug said:
Setterman said:
wow you really get worked up don't you?I already put my input in in my other post.Why lower the limit in areas that didn't get impacted?And why did you call out twras turkey bio like that?That was my statement and you ignored it for the most part and decided to turn it around on me saying i was attacking you.either discuss what I asked or stop trying to make me out to be the bad guy.
That was my point but you decided to turn it into a battle.I will be glad to get back to the topic if you want to answer that ?
MRUTVOL
Well-Known Member
RAFI said:
Just let it go RAFI...that is just how he is . Ole Setterman/Captin Hook has been booted once because he got to personal and although he has been much more bearable this time around he can get touchy sometimes. Give him enough rope and he will hang himself again. :whistle: He can actually have a good discussion from time to time.
Lawrence
Well-Known Member
Bertman said:
X2
Winchester
Well-Known Member
Exactly, that you know of yet!
Its good to know that you can and hopefully would make changes if they were warranted.
BGG, when was the last time TWRA did reopen the big game proclamation after seasons were set and made changes, due to a major event or such problems.
Just curious as I cant ever remember in my life something changing on the fly, although I dont always pay attention either.
