What are you looking for while scouting?

[Bone Collector]

Ok I'm bored at work… So reading through all the responses in my Land management vs. hunting skill thread, I noticed a couple of comments that peaked my interest and I don't honestly know how we are a Hunting forum and don't have more threads like the one I am going to start here. When I joined this site in 2009, I came for one reason, to learn from all the older guys that had been there and done that, so to speak. Seeing BSKs thread about how many years you have left to hunt made me realize there are a lot more older folks on there then I realized.

I know @BSK is a data guy and @Ski seems to be that way too. I realize not everyone is, and not everyone wants to be, so while data is important, I was wondering more along the lines of what you are looking for when scouting to kill bigger more mature bucks? @beefydeer and @Ski made comments that prompted me to make this post. @beefydeer said: "My son and I exclusively hunt public land in NW TN. We spend lots of hours looking for particular things. We kill 2 or 3 bucks every year that are at least 4 years old. They are out there, you just have to know what to look for." And @ Ski said, "But like the sayings go, you don't know what you don't know.....until you do, then hindsight is 20/20."

So I am not just ask questions, I will start it off and put some of the stuff I look for. Keep in mind the biggest buck I have killed was killed at LBL and was a 10 pt that was jaw bone aged at 3.5, but weighed right at 150 dressed and by math weighed between 188-200 on the hoof, so not sure if he wasn't closer to 4 years old.

When hunting a place like LBL that has terrain features, I am looking for, terrain funnels preferably along escape routes off ag fields or obvious areas hunters will go hunt, with at least moderate cover in and around the funnel. If I find a saddle or where 2-3 draws come together, but see no cover and it is wide open I move to the next spot, until I find the terrain feature with cover.

That is how I found my spot at LBL and killed that buck. The last time we went (2nd trip) my brother killed a smaller racked but 3.5 year old 10 pt, so we are 2 for 2 in that spot.

On the WMAs around MidTN, I just hunt thick cover close to private land ideally with some acorns dropping in the area. I see some good ones but I generally only bow hunt so I generally cannot get a shot, or too far for a bow, so I haven't killed one there yet.

So, What exactly are you looking for when you are scouting that tells you this is a good area to hunt for bigger bucks?

 

[Ski]

So, What exactly are you looking for when you are scouting that tells you this is a good area to hunt for bigger bucks?

In my experience big bucks do the same thing over & over, generation after generation. Once you find how they use a particular area you've got them by the balls because the terrain never changes and landscape rarely does, so if you kill a big buck here this year the chances are good you can kill another one next year same spot generally same time.

I approach it by first finding the major food source and scouting outward until I've identified where big bucks historically bed. Along the way I'll see where does bed. It's like playing connect the dots. I know there will be a line going from food to doe beds, to buck beds. Along that line I search for pinched areas where travel will be predictable. It could be subtle like the edge of a steep slope or edge of thicket, or it could be obvious like the top of a steep ravine where it's easier for a deer to walk around than down & back up. My favorites are "S" curves in a creek because the two curves will have high banks while the straight in between will have a shallow bank right at creek bottom level. It's easy to cross. Once I've identified all potential "pinches" I'll scout them to see which gets the most traffic, then I'll draw a line to connect the dots. I set up & hunt the pinches I feel best about, food end in the evenings and bed end in the mornings. Within a few sits I generally will have learned enough to tighten the noose and get on him. If I get him it's usually inside of three days of hunting. Generally beyond that I don't get him at all. He wins and I move on.

Probably unlike most hunters I don't give much credence to sign, and rarely if ever hunt over it. I pay attention to rubs in how high they are but not how big or tore up they are. A buck's neck is always stretched straight out or slightly down as he pushes against the tree. If it's knee high I know it's not a big bodied buck. If it's hip high I pay attention because a yearling 6pt can't get leverage that high up. For scrapes I look for numbers of scrapes that are fresh and I look for licking branches broken or stripped of leaves above my head. Lots of scrapes frequently opened usually means more than one older buck competing for the area, so my odds of getting on one are higher than if I'm in an area with only one big buck. The high licking branch is like the rubs. It takes a big bodied buck to reach 6ft-7ft up. Big bodies usually mean big racks. Old sign like old rubs, especially if apparent multiple years of high rubs means I'm in an area that holds big bucks every year.

That's what I look for. Long winded but really pretty simple and repeatable. Sure there are exceptions to every rule but I'm trying to play the odds, not defy them. The sign only lets me know if a good buck is in the area. Connecting the dots of travel let me know where to hang a stand. And you gotta know when you've lost. If you haven't gotten him within a few days, he's onto you. Any more time and you're spitting into the wind. You're best off finding the next buck. They are around. You're just probably not going to see a mature buck at a rub, scrape, or in the field during daylight, although it seems that's where everybody hunts. They actually cruise through open timber all times of day more than folks seem to think. You just gotta find the spots where his travel gets narrowed down inside a tight window and set up & wait......and wait......and wait. It's not uncommon for me to sit a day or two or three & never see the first deer, but I know when I do it'll probably be an old bruiser by himself with no apparent care in the world, and he'll be inside of 20yds to my stand. The other hunters are sitting over where he'll be at 2:30am, not pm. That's why I rarely encounter other hunters. We aren't hunting the same spots. Truth be told, most of my bucks were shot in places folks wouldn't expect to see a deer, let alone a good buck. That said, I know guys who get it done in the obvious places too. So who knows?

 

[MUP]

Deer sign early, then buck sign. This is all after I've found the area they're feeding in, white oaks and other mast producing trees mostly. Then I "scout" with bow in hand during bow season, hunting but mostly watching deer movement and travel patterns for where they will be concentrating and hanging out during ML season. Then I try to stay with the does as they move to different areas of my property. Oh the bucks will eventually come and join the party.

 

[Snake]

I try to find the heavily used trails. During the rut bucks will be where the most ladies are . Then I concentrate on lightly used trails off the main trails especially in the thickest areas trying to find a couple good trees to ambush Mr. Buck . If you can find a trail heading to a good food source and suspect the bedding area I try to set up along that trail as well , all deer have to eat . With this all said once the bucks become nocturnal then set up closer to bedding areas all the time knowing wind direction.

 

[megalomaniac]

WAY over my level. I never kill mature bucks outside the rut when they are stupid and following hot does (esp the young does in their first estrus cycle and run around in the open).

Because I'm so terrible at finding repeatable and consistent buck travel routes outside the rut, I have basically quit hunting them unless the rut is on (except for the velvet hunt, when even someone like me can pattern a bachelor group).

That being said, when I do find a well defined rub line ( 5 to 10 rubs in a fairly straight line over 100 to 200 yds in the woods), I take note. Not necessarily to hunt that particular year, but to study and try to figure out WHY that is a favored buck route. Usually not obvious to me.

Scrapes I could care less about, except for locations for trail cameras.

I've been doing this for almost 40 years. I realize at this point I just don't get it. And I'm fine with that. Thank goodness for the rut so I don't have to rely on deconstructing normal whitetail buck behavior. During the rut, I'm just as good a hunter as anyone else out there... because the bucks have abandoned their normal/ semi predictable patterns.

My only advantage over most other hunters is that I don't miss many deer from my hunting spots. I'm blessed with very good vision, and the ability to deconstruct the appearance of a whitetail deer into the smallest of the individual parts such as a quarter of a leg or a single tine through the woods, and my brain registers those parts to confirm with binoculars. I put in ear buds ( hearing sucks, so dont really need it deer hunting), listen to a good book or history podcast, and just focus on spotting deer. That's a gift you either have or don't in my experience. My 15yo daughter def got it from me... one of the few people I've ever hunted with who can sometimes spot a deer before I see it. Those hunters staring at their phones not paying attention miss out on seeing a LOT of deer in my mind.

 

[volboy]

Great question. Interested in seeing responses to learn new ideas.

 

[killingtime 41]

In archery season I rarely even hunt bucks. I'm in the mindset of finding food and doe bedding areas. I will take a doe if given the opportunity. Bedding will shift when acorns are gone. Sometimes not very far. Always make note of these particular spots. Some places mature bucks will visit these beds directly. Depending on terrain I find they stick to heavy cover. And can sent check in that heavy cover from a distance. So take note of terrain that they will use to do that. I know people always say keep wind in your face which is your best bet. I usually like to sit and or walk where the wind hits me at an angle in the face. That way I can get a buck before he gets directly behind me and catches my scent.I'm always trying to learn and improve. Several years ago I had to do things differently. Not repeating things that has never worked. But using some that did with reading posts like all of these and trying them out. Most of the time I'm hunting heavy cover. Sometimes it's hurt my ability to hit what I'm shooting at. But they are there that much I know. That's where I want to be.

 

[BDS05]

For scrapes I look for numbers of scrapes that are fresh and I look for licking branches broken or stripped of leaves above my head. Lots of scrapes frequently opened usually means more than one older buck competing for the area, so my odds of getting on one are higher than if I'm in an area with only one big buck.

Great post.

This part however goes against one spot in particular I can think of year after year. 300~ yards of old logging road scattered with fresh scrapes on trail, random scrapes just off trails, and two beech trees that contain scrapes around the whole 20' diameter. It's predictable year after year. I've failed to consistently connect, with bullet or camera, more years than not on a mature buck. There is however always an abundance of up and comers.

 

[BDS05]

Most of the time I'm hunting heavy cover. Sometimes it's hurt my ability to hit what I'm shooting at. But they are there that much I know. That's where I want to be.

I've grown to love hunting HEAVY cover. At one time, I absolutely hated it…

 

[Ski]

Great post.

This part however goes against one spot in particular I can think of year after year. 300~ yards of old logging road scattered with fresh scrapes on trail, random scrapes just off trails, and two beech trees that contain scrapes around the whole 20' diameter. It's predictable year after year. I've failed to consistently connect, with bullet or camera, more years than not on a mature buck. There is however always an abundance of up and comers.

That's odd for sure. I'd be interested in knowing what the herd stats are for that area in terms of sex ratio and age structure. Is it public or private?

The pics below show what I meant by the high licking branch on scrapes. Notice the first buck is a big mature. He can simply raise his head and grab the licking branch, pull it down, and thrash it same time he's hoofing the ground beneath it. Then a younger buck comes by a couple weeks later and can work the scrape just fine but cannot reach the licking branch. Same scrape. Same licking branch. Same season. A mature buck is big enough to properly work the scrape but a younger subordinate buck cannot physically do it. That is a scrape that catches my attention. Scrapes with low licking branches don't tell me much. Scrapes with licking branches over my head tell me a very big bodied buck is around.

I'm not positive and can't prove it, but I think this is done by design by older bucks to exclude the younger bucks from participating. Perhaps it shows the does who the boss is? I don't really know. But I've seen it regularly enough that it's uncanny, can't just be random. Bucks always seem to make scrapes with licking branches above their heads, and big buck heads sit higher than little buck heads.

 

[beefydeer]

So, What exactly are you looking for when you are scouting that tells you this is a good area to hunt for bigger bucks?

There is not one specific formula for me. We only hunt in Obion and Lake counties. We really spread it out between 3 different WMA's, some state owned land that is not a WMA, and some federal land. (I am not worried about people on here finding my spots) I say all of that because all the land I hunt is flat as a pancake so terrain is really a non factor. This spreads out our hunting across about 20,000 acres all public. I feel some of this public land is less pressured than a lot of private land. In 2015, we challenged ourselves to kill mature deer on public land. It took a couple years but we figured it out. Our two bucks this year were both aged at 5.5 by the taxidermist. But keep in mind mature doesn't always equal big antlers.

You have to pay attention to what other people are doing just as much as what the deer are doing as well. We make it a point to do the opposite of what other people do, especially during muzzleloader and rifle. During bow season it seems we have all this ground to ourselves, as we very rarely see another bow hunter. @Ski last paragraph really sums it up good. Do what other hunters aren't doing. My days off work are Sunday and Monday so I only hunt two days a week. From bow opener to the end of gun I hunt every day I am off. I NEVER hunt the same tree two days in a row. Mature deer will figure you out. If I hunt the same area two days in a row I will always get in a different tree, maybe only a difference of 100 yards, but different. 95% of our spots are accessible only by boat so that also limits the other hunters we may see.

We are actually starting our scouting next week. We are going to look at some areas we haven't hunted before. This is the best time of year to scout in my opinion. Look for rubs and scrapes of course, all the normal sign, but the thicker the cover the better. Don't pay attention to the super highway trails. Old bucks will be loners for most the year. Small food sources close to nasty thick cover are key spots. I look for funnels close to the food and cover. There is no secret code. It will just feel right. Those deer are smart and you have to outsmart them. Be mobile and flexible. I don't use calls or scents, they figure those out. I don't even own a trail camera.

 

[beefydeer]

In archery season I rarely even hunt bucks.

If I see does and small bucks during bow season, I change spots.

 

[deerhunter10]

For me scrapes that are actually getting used pawed out licking branch worked all of it and I want then tight to cover as possible where I can hunt it on a northern wind when a front is in. A huge bonus would be oak trees in the area as well. I love seeing big rubs and all they get I don't forget about them but scrapes imo are way more important. Granted the majority of the time they get worked at night but the ones getting worked all the way through are generally the deer you are wanting to kill. Looking for the cover you will find the funnel anyway because generally that's where the sign is. Early season is oak trees for me. But the hot tree doesn't last long in my experience 2 to 4 days it seems. Pre rut rut and 2nd rut is what I referred to above is what I am looking for. Late seaoson is all food as tight to cover as possible heavily used trails and they can get blown out easy.

 

[Ski]

Don't pay attention to the super highway trails. Old bucks will be loners for most the year. Small food sources close to nasty thick cover are key spots. I look for funnels close to the food and cover. There is no secret code. It will just feel right. Those deer are smart and you have to outsmart them. Be mobile and flexible.

If I see does and small bucks during bow season, I change spots.

Nailed it^.

You ever see a big old lone bull way off by himself in a pasture, far away from the other cattle as if he's been ostracized? He grazes a little bit then lays down & chews cud for bit, then repeats, sometimes getting up to rub on a big tree. The only time he tolerates the other cattle is when he comes in for feeding time, and all the others clear way when he comes slowly waddling in. He's last one to the party & first to leave it.

Same exact thing with old bucks. The big difference is that the major feeding time for deer is evening and he rarely arrives before dark because he's coming from so far away. Otherwise he lays around his area chewing cud and getting up to browse every once in awhile. And his area is the place no other deer will be. That's how he likes it. If you can find that spot and you know where he eats dinner, you have a realistic chance at killing him by setting up next to pinch points in the terrain/landscape in between. Whether you find those spots on public land or create the scenario on private, the bucks do the same thing and hunting them is the same. That's why I giggle when folks think private land is so easy. At least on public you have enough room to make a mistake and get on another buck. Most private ground is sub 100 acres so you've got to walk a tightrope every minute you're there because if you spook him out he's gone & ain't coming back.

 

[Snake]

Those of you that hadn't been hunting very long and looking here for pointers is good but remember what works for one may not work for another . Every property is different but similar ... sounds confusing right . Look at the responses some similar but different. Take some leave some of these tips but experience is going to be the key plus where you hunt . One piece of advice I'll give is don't keep making the same mistakes. Hunting mature bucks can be a pain in the rear and be prepared to eat a tag ! Another piece of advice I'll give is if you bent on trying to kill a mature buck but don't want to be discouraged hunt early in the deer season and maybe kill a doe to get the what some call the monkey off your back . Then you may not feel like you've wasted the season because hunting mature bucks like some on here could get discouraged for a novice hunter . For me I couldn't be what some here are I'm just not patient enough plus I'm a hunter first and foremost. Not that I can't let a buck walk because I have but if a really good looking 3.5 year old come my way he's probably not going to get any older. I commend those that have let decent bucks walk with a goal being a really mature buck or nothing . I have let that type walk but it's mainly because I have already killed one. Once again you may have property were killing a mature buck is like hitting the lottery so this also a major reason some get discouraged. Experience will dictate this by just being in the woods or fields you hunt . Bucks like other deer leave sign they are not ghosts so pay attention to the sign bucks leave . Some on here make killing mature bucks look easy because they are always displaying their pictures but it's not easy ! Yes some have super properties and can be easier but you have to have patience even with great property.

 

[muddyboots]

I ugly him to death. I find one and hunt him until I kill him ir season ends. As far as spots I usually just hunt until I catch a faint glimpse of him and move in the next day.

 

[kaizen leader]

In my experience big bucks do the same thing over & over, generation after generation. Once you find how they use a particular area you've got them by the balls because the terrain never changes and landscape rarely does, so if you kill a big buck here this year the chances are good you can kill another one next year same spot generally same time.

I approach it by first finding the major food source and scouting outward until I've identified where big bucks historically bed. Along the way I'll see where does bed. It's like playing connect the dots. I know there will be a line going from food to doe beds, to buck beds. Along that line I search for pinched areas where travel will be predictable. It could be subtle like the edge of a steep slope or edge of thicket, or it could be obvious like the top of a steep ravine where it's easier for a deer to walk around than down & back up. My favorites are "S" curves in a creek because the two curves will have high banks while the straight in between will have a shallow bank right at creek bottom level. It's easy to cross. Once I've identified all potential "pinches" I'll scout them to see which gets the most traffic, then I'll draw a line to connect the dots. I set up & hunt the pinches I feel best about, food end in the evenings and bed end in the mornings. Within a few sits I generally will have learned enough to tighten the noose and get on him. If I get him it's usually inside of three days of hunting. Generally beyond that I don't get him at all. He wins and I move on.

Probably unlike most hunters I don't give much credence to sign, and rarely if ever hunt over it. I pay attention to rubs in how high they are but not how big or tore up they are. A buck's neck is always stretched straight out or slightly down as he pushes against the tree. If it's knee high I know it's not a big bodied buck. If it's hip high I pay attention because a yearling 6pt can't get leverage that high up. For scrapes I look for numbers of scrapes that are fresh and I look for licking branches broken or stripped of leaves above my head. Lots of scrapes frequently opened usually means more than one older buck competing for the area, so my odds of getting on one are higher than if I'm in an area with only one big buck. The high licking branch is like the rubs. It takes a big bodied buck to reach 6ft-7ft up. Big bodies usually mean big racks. Old sign like old rubs, especially if apparent multiple years of high rubs means I'm in an area that holds big bucks every year.

That's what I look for. Long winded but really pretty simple and repeatable. Sure there are exceptions to every rule but I'm trying to play the odds, not defy them. The sign only lets me know if a good buck is in the area. Connecting the dots of travel let me know where to hang a stand. And you gotta know when you've lost. If you haven't gotten him within a few days, he's onto you. Any more time and you're spitting into the wind. You're best off finding the next buck. They are around. You're just probably not going to see a mature buck at a rub, scrape, or in the field during daylight, although it seems that's where everybody hunts. They actually cruise through open timber all times of day more than folks seem to think. You just gotta find the spots where his travel gets narrowed down inside a tight window and set up & wait......and wait......and wait. It's not uncommon for me to sit a day or two or three & never see the first deer, but I know when I do it'll probably be an old bruiser by himself with no apparent care in the world, and he'll be inside of 20yds to my stand. The other hunters are sitting over where he'll be at 2:30am, not pm. That's why I rarely encounter other hunters. We aren't hunting the same spots. Truth be told, most of my bucks were shot in places folks wouldn't expect to see a deer, let alone a good buck. That said, I know guys who get it done in the obvious places too. So who knows?

Thank you. Very much appreciated and informative. Good luck this fall.

 

[fairchaser]

A great spot is hard to put into words. There are dozens of factors that come together that are only learned by experience. The factors noted by the experienced hunters above are all good but like a good recipe it's the combination of ingredients that make it a meal. Every good buck is an individual and therefore has his own special habits. Some spots do repeat themselves but others do not. Spending time in the woods and observing nature is the only way to gain experience. When I find a great spot, I just believe I can kill a good buck in this spot. My predatory instincts and all my experience tell me.

 

[DMD]

In my experience big bucks do the same thing over & over, generation after generation. Once you find how they use a particular area you've got them by the balls because the terrain never changes and landscape rarely does, so if you kill a big buck here this year the chances are good you can kill another one next year same spot generally same time.

I approach it by first finding the major food source and scouting outward until I've identified where big bucks historically bed. Along the way I'll see where does bed. It's like playing connect the dots. I know there will be a line going from food to doe beds, to buck beds. Along that line I search for pinched areas where travel will be predictable. It could be subtle like the edge of a steep slope or edge of thicket, or it could be obvious like the top of a steep ravine where it's easier for a deer to walk around than down & back up. My favorites are "S" curves in a creek because the two curves will have high banks while the straight in between will have a shallow bank right at creek bottom level. It's easy to cross. Once I've identified all potential "pinches" I'll scout them to see which gets the most traffic, then I'll draw a line to connect the dots. I set up & hunt the pinches I feel best about, food end in the evenings and bed end in the mornings. Within a few sits I generally will have learned enough to tighten the noose and get on him. If I get him it's usually inside of three days of hunting. Generally beyond that I don't get him at all. He wins and I move on.

Probably unlike most hunters I don't give much credence to sign, and rarely if ever hunt over it. I pay attention to rubs in how high they are but not how big or tore up they are. A buck's neck is always stretched straight out or slightly down as he pushes against the tree. If it's knee high I know it's not a big bodied buck. If it's hip high I pay attention because a yearling 6pt can't get leverage that high up. For scrapes I look for numbers of scrapes that are fresh and I look for licking branches broken or stripped of leaves above my head. Lots of scrapes frequently opened usually means more than one older buck competing for the area, so my odds of getting on one are higher than if I'm in an area with only one big buck. The high licking branch is like the rubs. It takes a big bodied buck to reach 6ft-7ft up. Big bodies usually mean big racks. Old sign like old rubs, especially if apparent multiple years of high rubs means I'm in an area that holds big bucks every year.

That's what I look for. Long winded but really pretty simple and repeatable. Sure there are exceptions to every rule but I'm trying to play the odds, not defy them. The sign only lets me know if a good buck is in the area. Connecting the dots of travel let me know where to hang a stand. And you gotta know when you've lost. If you haven't gotten him within a few days, he's onto you. Any more time and you're spitting into the wind. You're best off finding the next buck. They are around. You're just probably not going to see a mature buck at a rub, scrape, or in the field during daylight, although it seems that's where everybody hunts. They actually cruise through open timber all times of day more than folks seem to think. You just gotta find the spots where his travel gets narrowed down inside a tight window and set up & wait......and wait......and wait. It's not uncommon for me to sit a day or two or three & never see the first deer, but I know when I do it'll probably be an old bruiser by himself with no apparent care in the world, and he'll be inside of 20yds to my stand. The other hunters are sitting over where he'll be at 2:30am, not pm. That's why I rarely encounter other hunters. We aren't hunting the same spots. Truth be told, most of my bucks were shot in places folks wouldn't expect to see a deer, let alone a good buck. That said, I know guys who get it done in the obvious places too. So who knows?

My scouting depends on where I am hunting and when I'm hunting. Most of my hunting is on large tracts of timber in East TN. My scouting is different for September and early October than it is for late October and November. I also tweek my scouting based on public land or private land a little bit, but my scouting sounds very much like yours. If I know deer are in the area, buck sign means very little to me.

Early season, I am hunting native food sources or hunting in relation to any agriculture that might be in the area, which is very little where I normally hunt.

But, late October through November, I'm keeping the food sources in the back of my mind and I am scouting terrain features. On public land, I'm considering escape routes in my terrain feature scouting. But, on my private land, I try to figure where does are feeding primarily. Then, I set up on certain terrain features in the general vicinity. Now, if I see some buck sign on these terrain features - that's great - but, I don't let buck sign dictate where I hunt during the rut. I like to hunt terrain where several ridges/hollers come together. Also saddles. I also like transition areas, if there are any. My plan is to wait out bucks seeking does or wait out a big buck that is locked down with a doe.

I've been pretty successful employing these methods over the years. But, in full disclosure, I suck at hunting in December. Always have.

 

[Ski]

Those of you that hadn't been hunting very long and looking here for pointers is good but remember what works for one may not work for another . Every property is different but similar ... sounds confusing right . Look at the responses some similar but different. Take some leave some of these tips but experience is going to be the key plus where you hunt .

Hunting mature bucks can be a pain in the rear and be prepared to eat a tag !

hunting mature bucks like some on here could get discouraged for a novice hunter

Sage words. I sometimes have to remember what it was like when I was young because over the years with experience my objectives & perspectives have changed. What challenged me then isn't necessarily what challenges me now. What excited me then isn't what excites me now. If my younger self were to hunt the way my current self hunts, he'd probably hate hunting.