What could you be doing that your not doing?

[Headhunter]

A long gun season is not detrimental to the deer herd in Tennessee. We have had it forever. Does it make a huge number of the deer population harder to see in daylight hours, especially mature deer, for sure. Could some young bucks that are killed be saved for another year or possible more, I believe so. I see huge numbers of young bucks killed every season. No problem with that, it is legal. But with the amount of hunters, the pressure, and a need to recruit younger hunters, what does it hurt to make some changes to help more bucks get some age and show their potential whether that is 100" or 150"? Especially from what I have read on here a small percntage of our deer make it to an older age and of those that do an even smaller percentage can develop into the better bucks for that area?

Know what doesn't make sense, each year, as people I know and encourage to shoot mature does and let ALL bucks walk except for what they consider a great buck, amazing how after just a couple years a good deer (sometimes a giant shows up) What is wrong with that? I haven't heard any of them complain yet. They do when I explain to them there is no such animal as a cull in most all hunting situations. I have heard forever about places things such as "someone else will shoot them, no genetics, no food, all we kill are little bucks, etc." until they let some bucks walk for a couple years and then they a kill a 130, a 140 or as one of my friends did this year a deer that gossed 150 and saw a couple more good bucks on a farm where the biggest they had ever killed would not even make a 100".

I promise, I was on the complete other side of this fence for my first years of hunting.

 

[bowriter]

Notice how this thread made the inevitable loop. It started, what could you do you are not doing to we need a shorter season etc. ad nauseum.

So....I am starting a new thread upon which I am banning BSK, BGG and myself from posting. You can find it as soon as the 30-second waiting period is up.

 

[Headhunter]

I must be smart, even Bowriter reads my posts. Maybe he learned something.

 

[BSK]

I often times wonder if the big differences we see/experience and debate here are region related? Is one group of hunters in a particular area practicing trigger restraint at a higher rate than hunters in another area? I do not know for sure, but I am starting to think so. Furthermore, I am not passing judgement on either preference, just trying to better understand the huge disparities in preferences/behaviors/etc us hunters across the state are seeing and thus debating.

That is what I hear from TWRA personnel that work in different areas. In some areas, hunters appear far more concerned about big/old bucks than in other areas. In one county, or even just one part of a county, hunters will be talking about what they let walk. In the adjacent county or part of a county, hunters show up at the check station with yearlings bucks and are pleased as punch to have killed them. Just local variations in hunter desire.

 

[BSK]

A long gun season is not detrimental to the deer herd in Tennessee. We have had it forever. Does it make a huge number of the deer population harder to see in daylight hours, especially mature deer, for sure.

The reaction of deer to hunting pressure is far more about the intensity of the pressure than the duration of the pressure. Force all gun hunting into a short window, and that short gun season will produce far more nocturnal behavior than a little pressure strung over a long time frime.

But with the amount of hunters, the pressure, and a need to recruit younger hunters, what does it hurt to make some changes to help more bucks get some age and show their potential whether that is 100" or 150"?

That would be assuming the opportunity to kill a big/old buck is what motivates most hunters, especially new hunters (hunter recruitment). Survey after survey finds "the opportunity to kill a big buck" falls very low on the list of reasons hunters give for why they hunt. Although the percent of hunters motivated by the opportunity to kill a big buck is certainly climbing, it is still a small minority viewpoint. And restrictive rules enacted to improve the chances of killing big bucks certainly will not help hunter recruitment. New hunters don't take up deer hunting to wait years for the opportunity to kill a big buck. That's the realm of experienced hunters who cut their teeth on killing young bucks and now want a different experience.

Know what doesn't make sense, each year, as people I know and encourage to shoot mature does and let ALL bucks walk except for what they consider a great buck, amazing how after just a couple years a good deer (sometimes a giant shows up) What is wrong with that? I haven't heard any of them complain yet.

That's because big/old bucks have become their goal. They are willing to give up something to get something they want. However, big/old bucks is not the goal of the majority of hunters.

 

[Bayou Buck]

This is reminding me of a political campaign/debate!

 

[Headhunter]

BSK, I completely disagree about the short gun season. I am guessing, but 40+ years of 1-1/2 to 2 months of gun season definitely has had an effect.

A shorter gun season would hurt me more than anyone in this state I would bet. For many years, I have been more than blessed, I hunt some portion of every single day of every season, but I believe there is awesome potential in shortening the gun season.

I NEVER said a young hunter (or any hunter for that matter) could not shoot any buck they wish, just not 3. The more the chance for a better buck I feel the more encouragement to hunt among the younger generation. Especially since many of them love the outdoor shows (which I DO NOT watch and believe they push across the wrong attitude a good bit of the time) but what is wrong with helping more bucks get more age without hurting anyone. Reducing the limit is not going to hurt a majority of the hunting population in Tennessee. I realize the opposite is true, but I believe many hunters are law abiding, and in the real world there is no such thing as a "good bowkill or muzzleloader kill", there is just a good kill. Many young bucks that die every season might get a pass and not hurt anyone's feelings, since if you want to shoot it, then do it, but realize DEER are not an UNLIMITED resource and helping whatever percentage of young bucks live to an older age that may get the chance is not a bad thing. Well said, Bayou Buck, very much like a democrat (all they ever want is what is good for them, not the country) look at what appeases the deer hunter instead of the deer.

 

[Headhunter]

BSK posted
"That's because big/old bucks have become their goal. They are willing to give up something to get something they want. However, big/old bucks is not the goal of the majority of hunters. "

That is because they firmly believed it was a complete waste of time to wait for better bucks, because all they had heard is the area they hunted in Tennessee could not grow better bucks for whatever reason. Amazing what happens when some bucks get some age.

 

[BSK]

BSK, I completely disagree about the short gun season.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Having watched trail-camera pictures of buck daylight versus nocturnal activity as hunting seasons begin, I've seen the significant difference in how quickly bucks go noctrunal in situations of just a few hunters hunting over long periods of time (slow transition to nocturnal behavior) versus bunch of hunters all hitting the woods at the same time (virtually instantaneous conversion to nocturnal movement).

However, the point is moot in those parts of TN where the opener of gun season looks just like the opener of gun in KY (a sea of orange in the woods). In both situations, bucks go nocturnal very quickly and it doesn't really matter how long the gun season is.

I NEVER said a young hunter (or any hunter for that matter) could not shoot any buck they wish, just not 3.

And the harvest data is quite clear that only a very small percent of hunters are killing 3 bucks.

The more the chance for a better buck I feel the more encouragement to hunt among the younger generation.

I've participated in a heck of lot of youth hunts and the teaching of "newbees" to deer hunt. To a person, I've never met a new deer hunter that got into the sport because they wanted to kill a big buck. Almost without exception, they want to try deer hunting because they want to join the "tribe" of deer hunters--the social circle of deer hunters. Usually, someone they admire or look up to (a friend, a family member, a parent) is a member of this "tribe," they hear the stories told between fellow tribe members, and they want to be a part of that tribe and be able to share in the story-making and story-telling.

...but what is wrong with helping more bucks get more age without hurting anyone.

Once again, you keep saying no one is being hurt. That's highly subjective. A 1 buck limit would "hurt" a lot of hunters enjoyment, and I guarantee it would hurt more hunters enjoyment than it helps.

Reducing the limit is not going to hurt a majority of the hunting population in Tennessee.

To a limit of 1 buck, I believe you're wrong.

 

[BSK]

On a side note, Heaven help the future of deer hunting if new hunters begin to join because of what the see on TV.

Of course, those type of new hunters won't be deer hunters for long. They will rapidly grow disillusioned and quit.

 

[Brisco Darlin]

i guess my main thing is to spend more time scouting new areas. i get in a rut pardon the pun because i see deer at the same places year after year and just set up there.

 

[richmanbarbeque]

On a side note, Heaven help the future of deer hunting if new hunters begin to join because of what the see on TV.

Of course, those type of new hunters won't be deer hunters for long. They will rapidly grow disillusioned and quit.

I don't find that to be true. It has become "popular" amongst some of the people on tndeer to bash hunting shows but I have talked to young hunters and they are a lot more forgiving of tv shows. Like many they are looking at it as a form of entertainment along with learning. Ask yourself how many shows does the average "newbie" watch? More than you think, I promise. If this wasn't true then how come some of them(hunting celebs) are raking in the $$$$

 

[BSK]

If this wasn't true then how come some of them(hunting celebs) are raking in the $$$$

Because there's "a sucker born every minute." Advertising sells. It is a highly studied and well-practiced science.

 

[redblood]

i cut my teeth watching jackie bushman (before he was fat, and before he was a singer) on buckmasters on cmt on sundays. dang, maybe that is my problem.

 

[richmanbarbeque]

If this wasn't true then how come some of them(hunting celebs) are raking in the $$$$

Because there's "a sucker born every minute." Advertising sells. It is a highly studied and well-practiced science.

The young sportsman that watch it don't watch it because they are "suckers" they crave more of what they are interested in. Just like you and trail cameras, you read and experiment as much as possible. kids today are looking for something and thankfully they have hunting shows to help them. God knows we don't have enough mentors for them.

 

[Headhunter]

I do not believe cameras can tell you everything either. I know cameras are a great tool, but far fromt he best.

 

[BSK]

If this wasn't true then how come some of them(hunting celebs) are raking in the $$$$

Because there's "a sucker born every minute." Advertising sells. It is a highly studied and well-practiced science.

The young sportsman that watch it don't watch it because they are "suckers" they crave more of what they are interested in. Just like you and trail cameras, you read and experiment as much as possible. kids today are looking for something and thankfully they have hunting shows to help them. God knows we don't have enough mentors for them.

If hunting shows actually accurately depicted deer hunting, I would have no problem with them. In fact, I would promote them. However, what the vast majority of hunting shows depict is highly unrealistic hunting experiences. If new/young hunters are watching these shows, and then want/expect the same experience when they hunt, they are going to be seriously disappointed. It all comes back to "realistic expectations."

Do you really think many of the TV hunting personalities are good mentors? I don't. I sure as heck wouldn't want my daughter emulating them.

 

[Boone 58]

Sometimes we take ourselves too serious.........i like to hunt and when i feel like it i just enjoy being out there and dont pressure my self too much. I want to kill a nice buck each year, but i enjoy the outdoors and seeing them and matching wits with them.

 

[BSK]

Sometimes we take ourselves too serious.........i like to hunt and when i feel like it i just enjoy being out there and dont pressure my self too much. I want to kill a nice buck each year, but i enjoy the outdoors and seeing them and matching wits with them.

I took that one to heart a few years ago, and I'm now enjoying my hunting more than I ever have.

 

[fairchaser]

My goal is to stay as physically fit and flexible in my hunting as possible; always learning and being willing to change. Flexibility is a key to success in whitetail hunting. I would like to scout more during the season when its tempting to be in a stand. If I can stay tuned into the deer herd and change locations and techniques as the food, rut and weather changes dictate, I would undoubtedly be more successful.