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What the autopsy revealed.

I used mechanicals for many seasons. The pro is obviously the damage done to the animal but getting a pass through was rare for me which presented the cons which were broken arrows and bent broadheads (expensive). Like stupid me does on occasion I chased the "heavy arrow" theory down the rabbit hole and went too heavy in my opinion. Had to back off a bit and find a happy medium. I used the magnus last year with decent results but had planned on changing this yr except I had a new pack so I used them again. I have watched 3 out of 6 deer fall in the last 2 seasons, but the other 3 were tough to find due to no blood. 2" higher and I would've watched her fall too…..I think. Anyway I just thought the shot looked perfect but the autopsy revealed it was far from it. Thanks for all the arrow advice.
 
7mm08 said:
PATH REPORT,
Bilateral tension pneumothorax secondary to trauma resulting in low cardiac output and hypoventilation with associated shock. Minimal blood loss with the great vessels and heart uninvolved resulting in 380 yard recovery.
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Ummmm…. That was exactly what I thought too. But you failed to mention Ski's hydraulic analysis. You cats are way too smart for me.
 
Sasquatch Boogie Outdoors said:
Ummmm…. That was exactly what I thought too. But you failed to mention Ski's hydraulic analysis. You cats are way too smart for me.
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Sucked at the math involved in Ski's physics lesson. ….,.,but 35 years in the cardiothoracic biz! Seriously, the deer ran so far because you can live for a while with a pneumothorax ( air comes into the lung cavity with every breath, but the pressure collapses the lung in the process). The pneumothorax gets so big it doesn't allow the heart to beat or it shoves the heart over to one side and basically kinks off the great vessels ( tension pneumothorax), resulting in death.

Meanwhile the deer ran 380 yards as opposed to massive bleeding and a 38 yard run until it collapses.
 
Sasquatch Boogie Outdoors said:
Ummmm…. That was exactly what I thought too. But you failed to mention Ski's hydraulic analysis. You cats are way too smart for me.
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My hydraulics analogy was just to provoke some thought. I wasn't suggesting anybody quit using what they like and switch to mechanical.
 
Hillbilly Hunter said:
I have used Muzzy fixed broadheads since the 80's and they have done well. I am not a mechanical broadhead fan. Mechanical equals failure at some point.
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Issues with both. Big problem is a lot of people with fixed have the thinking the can blow through a shoulder and that'll get you in trouble. Also tuning I've seen multiple fixed heads not shoot worth a darn without tuning them. I've shot both like both. Just saying your thought process I'd flawed.
 
Coker said:
Between the Hydraulic Engineering and Cardiothoracic lessons, I completely forgot what this thread was about. I had to start over twice in order to finish once, and I'm still confused.

This thread can be summoned up in 2 words.............
SHAT HAPPENS!!! 🤣
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He stated AUTOPSY REPORT……. So I gave him one. Ha!
 
7mm08 said:
Sucked at the math involved in Ski's physics lesson. ….,.,but 35 years in the cardiothoracic biz! Seriously, the deer ran so far because you can live for a while with a pneumothorax ( air comes into the lung cavity with every breath, but the pressure collapses the lung in the process). The pneumothorax gets so big it doesn't allow the heart to beat or it shoves the heart over to one side and basically kinks off the great vessels ( tension pneumothorax), resulting in death.

Meanwhile the deer ran 380 yards as opposed to massive bleeding and a 38 yard run until it collapses.
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That's exactly what happened with the deer in the OP, and is what used to be fairly common back when I was a young bow hunter. On occasion we would hit heart and get good blood with short track but pretty often it would be a small trickle track. I remember vividly having long tracks with little blood because my thundrehead just didn't make a big hole. Still found a dead deer but pretty often it meant tracking for hours. First time I shot a deer with a big mechanical I felt like a caveman discovering fire. I'd never seen a deer bleed like that.

I started with a recurve and wooden arrows then compound with aluminum arrows and now cams with carbon arrows and big cut heads. I've lived and experienced the evolution. As the old adage says, necessity is the mother of invention. All those advances were out of necessity. Big cut heads were created to solve the issue we see on this deer, and in this particular case I think it would be hard to argue that a big mechanical head wouldn't have dropped that deer inside 100yds.

These days it's a trend to go backwards by making arrows heavy and heads small again. While I can't argue their dependability, I still very much remember thr reasons we moved away from them in the first place.
 
Sasquatch Boogie Outdoors said:
I used mechanicals for many seasons. The pro is obviously the damage done to the animal but getting a pass through was rare for me which presented the cons which were broken arrows and bent broadheads (expensive). Like stupid me does on occasion I chased the "heavy arrow" theory down the rabbit hole and went too heavy in my opinion. Had to back off a bit and find a happy medium. I used the magnus last year with decent results but had planned on changing this yr except I had a new pack so I used them again. I have watched 3 out of 6 deer fall in the last 2 seasons, but the other 3 were tough to find due to no blood. 2" higher and I would've watched her fall too…..I think. Anyway I just thought the shot looked perfect but the autopsy revealed it was far from it. Thanks for all the arrow advice.
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I'm guessing your lack of pass throughs is coming from shooting larger bodied bucks, correct? I only ask because I shoot a 2 inch mechanical with short arms and a 60 pound draw weight and it's rare that I don't get a pass through. I'm just killing does of varying body size though.
 
Ski said:
My hydraulics analogy was just to provoke some thought. I wasn't suggesting anybody quit using what they like and switch to mechanical.
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bowhunterfanatic said:
I'm guessing your lack of pass throughs is coming from shooting larger bodied bucks, correct? I only ask because I shoot a 2 inch mechanical with short arms and a 60 pound draw weight and it's rare that I don't get a pass through. I'm just killing does of varying body size though.
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Big bodies bucks?? Haha I'm on the upper east side.. not many pass through shots for me. I think the heavier arrows will push the mechanicals better than the ones I used to shoot. Probably going back to mechanicals next season…..in the mean time I have 1 more doe tag.
 
Sleepy That 70S Show GIF by Laff
 
Sasquatch Boogie Outdoors said:
Magnus stinger. I'm not blaming the head only stating there was no blood. Have taken 3 deer this year and although lethal the blood was minimal on all 3
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Are you using the 4 blade with bleeders? Bleeders are a game changer far as blood. I used 2 blade broadheads for years and when a switched to bleeders it was very impressive.
 
Sasquatch Boogie Outdoors said:
I shot a doe yesterday evening with my bow, looked like a 12 ringer. She ran across the field 100 yards and stopped, I assumed she would tip over there. 10 min later she walks away toward the property line. I waited another 30 before retrieving my arrow. Blood soaked. No blood trail though (changing broadheads). Searched the grown up line fence row to no avail. Drove home, called the neighbor, ate supper, and headed back. Used onX and mapped a likely travel route on the neighbors property. Found her 380 yards away. Not a single drop of blood. After field dressing I found the hit. Pics after shot are grainy but tell me what you think.
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Congratulations on your kill and recovery.
What time is supper?
 
So much of blood trails from broadheads is directly related to shot placement AND sharpness of your broadhead. It's a sad truth but very few heads are hunting sharp out of the package. I've shot rage and magnus and I've killed with both. The magnus I've seen go through a deer so fast they didn't know they were hit. I actually had a doe jump after being hit. Stand for a second and then pick up an acorn and start chewing before getting jelly legs and falling. The one thing I noticed about rages the deer took off like a bat out of hell when hit. You can't argue the big cuts in the right place don't make massive blood trails. I also killed a deer with a flint point. Very little blood trail but I watched him go down in 60 yards from my tree. Moral to the story put it where it needs to be and it will work. Practice with your heads have confidence in your setup and keep hunting.
 
Ski said:
Bare with me here as I'm not trying to steer you one way or the other. You'll hunt with whatever you want regardless of my opinion. But in recent years I've noticed a trend of going backwards with archery equipment to make arrows heavy & heads small again. The theory is increased penetration and there's all sorts of physics formulas used to prove their point. Personally I respond well to simplicity, so here's a basic formula for area of a circle to compare head size.

Area = pi multiplied by radius squared. Your Magnus Stinger with a 1-1/16" cut diameter creates a hole with an area of .89". A 2" mechanical head is less than twice the cut diameter but its hole is more than three times as big at 3.14". If you study hydraulics you'll know that power isn't generated by total volume of a cylinder but rather total area. Bigger diameter means more power regardless of length of stroke. So when draining an animal of its bodily fluids it's the area of the hole, not so much depth that allows the most efficient drain. Simply put, your head with entry and exit wounds combined allow a third less bloodletting than the entry wound alone of a 2" mechanical. An exit would would more than 6X as much bloodletting. Food for thought.
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Never once thought of it in this simply put scenario. I too have changed back to fixed blades after a long term use of Swchacker even though I never had a loss with them.
I changed it to the 3 blade exodus and had good results but planned on going to the stingers. (Even asked Santa )
A lot to ponder in the off season. but in my eyes some reason in your post.
 
Sasquatch Boogie Outdoors said:
Big bodies bucks?? Haha I'm on the upper east side.. not many pass through shots for me. I think the heavier arrows will push the mechanicals better than the ones I used to shoot. Probably going back to mechanicals next season…..in the mean time I have 1 more doe tag.
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Hard to beat the 2 inch swhackers, never had deer make it out of sight with them.
 
wcw280 said:
So much of blood trails from broadheads is directly related to shot placement AND sharpness of your broadhead. It's a sad truth but very few heads are hunting sharp out of the package. I've shot rage and magnus and I've killed with both. The magnus I've seen go through a deer so fast they didn't know they were hit. I actually had a doe jump after being hit. Stand for a second and then pick up an acorn and start chewing before getting jelly legs and falling. The one thing I noticed about rages the deer took off like a bat out of hell when hit. You can't argue the big cuts in the right place don't make massive blood trails. I also killed a deer with a flint point. Very little blood trail but I watched him go down in 60 yards from my tree. Moral to the story put it where it needs to be and it will work. Practice with your heads have confidence in your setup and keep hunting.
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I think you're right on here. If you're gonna use a smaller fixed blade, it needs to be crazy sharp. I made the mistake of shooting a buck this season with an already used and not resharpened Magnus Stinger and even though it punched through both lungs and killed the buck there was ZERO blood.
 

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