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Where are they?

From 1974-75 we hunted the backwaters of the Mississippi across from Memphis and Shelby County. I remember it being mostly wood ducks. From 76-79 I hunted with my best friend. Mostly hunting the flooded timber along the White river in Arkansas, Mud Lake in Mississippi and several areas along the Mississippi river levee. Any place that had decent water holes we would hunt.
I think it was 79 or 80 that we started seeing a large drop in duck numbers especially Mallards. I think the poor numbers were blamed on several consecutive years of poor hatches but I don't remember what caused the poor hatches. I could be wrong but I think a Suzy was 100 points. If you accidentally killed one you were done for the day as the point system was in effect then. That's when I picked up the rifle and gave up on the ducks.
We were just kids trying to hunt ducks wherever we could. If we could find some decent water holes we usually found ducks.
 
Bgoodman30 said:
Yeah I don't know but I just don't buy that theory. I think they are adapting to pressure and possibly even learning about season dates. I think the mallards will come again but it looks like it will have to be extremes like prolonged cold+ snow or big Mississippi backwaters.

The biggest concentrations of ducks I have seen didn't come because it was cold they came because of the water.
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Very well may have nothing to do with it, but once I heard them talk about the physical shapes of ducks starting to change and how it changes the way they behave it caught my attention. And I think there is a lot of site fidelity in these different pockets of birds so it may be more of an issue for the cohort of ducks that mostly next as "X" location and mostly winter at "Y" location. Either way I am glad there are people looking into it.

I totally agree with you about the water, at least at most of the spots I haunt now. I'd take natural water over weather every day of the week if I had to pick between the two.
 
Displaced_Vol said:
Very well may have nothing to do with it, but once I heard them talk about the physical shapes of ducks starting to change and how it changes the way they behave it caught my attention. And I think there is a lot of site fidelity in these different pockets of birds so it may be more of an issue for the cohort of ducks that mostly next as "X" location and mostly winter at "Y" location. Either way I am glad there are people looking into it.

I totally agree with you about the water, at least at most of the spots I haunt now. I'd take natural water over weather every day of the week if I had to pick between the two.
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Yeah water can spread them out in the short term but usually come to. Some of my best seasons had high water. Remember many times having to restring decoys because the water was so high. That seems like a distant memory now and hasn't happened for at least 4 years. Maybe that is a big part of the problem. 4 years is a long time to a duck..
 
megalomaniac said:
I don't get you duck guys. It's fun to arrange the spread and watch the dog, but besides that, I'd rather walk 100 miles turkey hunting just for 1 gobble.
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i hunt both, but haven't gone duck hunting for several years. even the local wood duck population is way down now. used to see loads of them drifting the river for smallmouth, nada now. :( turkey numbers not what they were 5 or 6 years ago either. last gobbler i heard was killed by someone that got in between us while i was calling...
 
Rob R. said:
I got this article a couple days ago from Mossy Oak.

mossyoakgamekeeper.com

Mallard DNA: Things are Changing | Mossy Oak Gamekeeper

It turns out that a genetic marker that wills these birds to migrate could be diluted due to the influx of game farm mallard DNA. When game...
mossyoakgamekeeper.com mossyoakgamekeeper.com
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Nope the change has come from thousands of acres of flooded standing corn , period. DU stocked the Miss flyaway years ago with those same ducks before they started saving habitat. The problem is refugees combined with tons of flooded standing corn. Undisturbed open water and tons of food is what keeps them locked in a area, the powers to be will fight that the whole way but THAT IS THE REAL PROMBLEM...
 
I know not many folks believe the FWS counts, but over the past 10 years they show a 40% or more decrease in most of what we hunt other than GWT.
 

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Smashdn said:
So how you want to fight open water in areas of the country that are closed and grain fields without snow on them?
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First thing is they have to stop allowing the flooding of standing corn, period. 2nd thing have to cut back and out alot of the food grown and dumped on refugees. It's one thing giving them areas to rest it's another having these completely undisturbed refugees loaded with food to hold thousands of birds there all winter. They will stay there ice or not with it like that. It can freeze over and they can still feed in these flooded standing cornfields, they are flooded right up to the ears of corn. They just walk on the ice and eat right off the ears of corn. We have to get them spreaded back out some and moving around again some. Restoring somewhat of a migration that isn't just solely based on blistering ,ridiculously, unbearable winter weather conditions. It wasn't like that for years, weather played it's role but they were other factors such as food, pressure, and disturbances that also played key roles in distributing and moving migration of birds, also contributing in spreading out the birds some over much larger areas. Rather than the much more condensed and compacted migration we have now with huge concentrations of birds in small areas. If things don't change this sport is eventually going to go away.
 
gadwall70 said:
First thing is they have to stop allowing the flooding of standing corn, period. 2nd thing have to cut back and out alot of the food grown and dumped on refugees. It's one thing giving them areas to rest it's another having these completely undisturbed refugees loaded with food to hold thousands of birds there all winter. They will stay there ice or not with it like that. It can freeze over and they can still feed in these flooded standing cornfields, they are flooded right up to the ears of corn. They just walk on the ice and eat right off the ears of corn. We have to get them spreaded back out some and moving around again some. Restoring somewhat of a migration that isn't just solely based on blistering ,ridiculously, unbearable winter weather conditions. It wasn't like that for years, weather played it's role but they were other factors such as food, pressure, and disturbances that also played key roles in distributing and moving migration of birds, also contributing in spreading out the birds some over much larger areas. Rather than the much more condensed and compacted migration we have now with huge concentrations of birds in small areas. If things don't change this sport is eventually going to go away.
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How do you outlaw flooding corn that no one hunts? I get that there's nothing normal about intentionally flooding unharvested corn, but "normal agricultural practices" only applies to hunting. What if a field flooded naturally? Is that off limits?

What if an attempt to harvest was made but the field was too wet or bindweed pulls the stalks down as the combine is driving, toppling the corn and crushing the ears? Now it's a crop that was "manipulated" but as a result of a good faith attempt at a normal agricultural practice. Can you hunt geese on the dry field? Can you hunt if it floods?
 
gadwall70 said:
First thing is they have to stop allowing the flooding of standing corn, period. 2nd thing have to cut back and out alot of the food grown and dumped on refugees. It's one thing giving them areas to rest it's another having these completely undisturbed refugees loaded with food to hold thousands of birds there all winter. They will stay there ice or not with it like that. It can freeze over and they can still feed in these flooded standing cornfields, they are flooded right up to the ears of corn. They just walk on the ice and eat right off the ears of corn. We have to get them spreaded back out some and moving around again some. Restoring somewhat of a migration that isn't just solely based on blistering ,ridiculously, unbearable winter weather conditions. It wasn't like that for years, weather played it's role but they were other factors such as food, pressure, and disturbances that also played key roles in distributing and moving migration of birds, also contributing in spreading out the birds some over much larger areas. Rather than the much more condensed and compacted migration we have now with huge concentrations of birds in small areas. If things don't change this sport is eventually going to go away.
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Other than the point that birds might be overpopulated and not reproducing as well in certain areas I think you made more of a point as to how to increase harvest results for the majority or spread them around rather than how to help overall populations.

I think it's time for a hard look in the mirror with what it takes for a pleasurable hunt nationwide. We need to be conservation minded and not number minded. Habitat is lost more and more every year. How many predators does it take to equal one 6 man limit of adult birds?
 
gadwall70 said:
Nope the change has come from thousands of acres of flooded standing corn , period. DU stocked the Miss flyaway years ago with those same ducks before they started saving habitat. The problem is refugees combined with tons of flooded standing corn. Undisturbed open water and tons of food is what keeps them locked in a area, the powers to be will fight that the whole way but THAT IS THE REAL PROMBLEM...
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Honestly it used to be 5 acres of standing corn was a lot and all you needed to kill your ducks.. Now that's a drop in the bucket when some folks are leaving hundreds of acres standing...

Its almost as the hunting declined rich folks thought they needed more corn to keep up the success. Its only exacerbating the problem imo...
 
gadwall70 said:
First thing is they have to stop allowing the flooding of standing corn, period. 2nd thing have to cut back and out alot of the food grown and dumped on refugees. It's one thing giving them areas to rest it's another having these completely undisturbed refugees loaded with food to hold thousands of birds there all winter. They will stay there ice or not with it like that. It can freeze over and they can still feed in these flooded standing cornfields, they are flooded right up to the ears of corn. They just walk on the ice and eat right off the ears of corn. We have to get them spreaded back out some and moving around again some. Restoring somewhat of a migration that isn't just solely based on blistering ,ridiculously, unbearable winter weather conditions. It wasn't like that for years, weather played it's role but they were other factors such as food, pressure, and disturbances that also played key roles in distributing and moving migration of birds, also contributing in spreading out the birds some over much larger areas. Rather than the much more condensed and compacted migration we have now with huge concentrations of birds in small areas. If things don't change this sport is eventually going to go away.
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I agree with this and I think it will improve hunting and spread out success. The problem it is will it help the resource? 40% decline in pop if we reduce their food do we hurt them even more?
 
MickThompson said:
How do you outlaw flooding corn that no one hunts? I get that there's nothing normal about intentionally flooding unharvested corn, but "normal agricultural practices" only applies to hunting. What if a field flooded naturally? Is that off limits?

What if an attempt to harvest was made but the field was too wet or bindweed pulls the stalks down as the combine is driving, toppling the corn and crushing the ears? Now it's a crop that was "manipulated" but as a result of a good faith attempt at a normal agricultural practice. Can you hunt geese on the dry field? Can you hunt if it floods?
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There was no issues for all the years before at all. It all boils down to normal harvesting practices. The problem is way to much money is made from it now, and some will fight it to no end for that and personal reasons. But it worked great for all those years with no problems before they switched it and started to allow those practices. I argued it 30 years ago and said it would cause the problems we have today. It's documented on another web site and many problems that is affecting duck hunting today I clearly said 30 years ago. If it is not changed there's no doubt in my mind what's coming. Alot of older hunters knows the difference, they lived through it. The problem is not that there is alot less ducks than they say there is or less nesting. The numbers are there the problem comes from the practices from the last 40 years. All down the flyaways from top to bottom people have been doing everything they can to hold ducks to there area and keep them there all season. Now the migrations are all stagnant and constricted in large concentrations of birds in small areas. And each year there is less and less birds imprinting on any other areas to migrate to outside of these areas. People can disagree with me and that's completely OK but I have no doubts about what I believe it will lead to. So far for 30 years it's played out just as I thought it would, again it's documented in discussions like this one. So no reason for me to doubt what I believe.
 
How many acres of flooded corn do you think are in West Tennessee? I asked this question in the blind Monday morning. 2000 acres was the answer a few guys came up with. I just laughed.. I'm thinking a whole lot more than that.
 
A dry field close to my house here in W. TN.
Mostly snows/blues but what shocked me the most was the amount of ducks mixed in with them. Groups of 50, 100+ ducks working the field. I work with the property owners brother and when I talked to him he stated his brother got tired of people calling and knocking on his door for permission to hunt he just constantly drove through the fields to run them off.
 

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tn clyde said:
How many acres of flooded corn do you think are in West Tennessee? I asked this question in the blind Monday morning. 2000 acres was the answer a few guys came up with. I just laughed.. I'm thinking a whole lot more than that.
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Without a doubt!!
I know of 3 farms personally that equal half of that.
 
tn clyde said:
How many acres of flooded corn do you think are in West Tennessee? I asked this question in the blind Monday morning. 2000 acres was the answer a few guys came up with. I just laughed.. I'm thinking a whole lot more than that.
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A whole lot more than that
 
It's not just the acres and acres of standing and flooded corn. No till farming practices have taken over every where, and it leaves a ton more waste grain laying in every field north of us. Ducks and geese have a ton of places to feed, and as the seasons to our north close, they have no hunting pressure. They can sit and have all the food they want, and plenty of water to rest in, and they can do whatever ducky things they want until and unless it freezes/snows over and stays that way. There is more hunting pressure on the ducks than ever before, thanks in large part to the Duck Dynasty era. Everyone wants the pile pics for FB and IG, and thinks their influencer videos on Tik Tok or whatever video platform is gonna make them a ton of money.
 

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