Xtended range or Hevi-shot mag blend?

[TheLBLman]

Just dont think the scope would stay on when im belly crawling

A good scope & mounts should be uneffected by a "belly crawl".
My preference on a turkey gun is the old version Nikon Monarch 1.5-4.5 x 20mm. It has a much smaller "footprint" than most of the "red dots" and other "turkey" scopes, with exception to special sights such as the Burris Fastfire (another excellent choice).

By the way, of all the turkey loads I've tested, the Winchester Xtended range shells have consistently produced the most uniform patterns. They are superior to copper-plated lead loads, but do not have the per-pellet energy of the Hevi-13 (or Mag blends) loads. I've generally found the Winchester Xtendeds to produce a larger (but very uniform) pattern than the mag blends, meaning they might be more ideal for a 2nd shot if needed on a wounded but fleeing bird (due to a slightly larger pattern).

One thing to keep in mind:

The "heavier" the material used for the pellets, the fewer pellets per ounce. Thus, 2 ounces of Win. Xtended #6's have more pellets in them than 2 ounces of Hevi-13 #6's. Thus, as you got to "heavier" materials, you may need to go to smaller shot sizes, i.e. most are using #8 or #9 size shot in the TSS material, as it "penetrates" comparably to a #5 or #6 lead, while offering greater pattern density.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Just dont think the scope would stay on when im belly crawling

One thing to keep in mind:

The "heavier" the material used for the pellets, the fewer pellets per ounce. Thus, 2 ounces of Win. Xtended #6's have more pellets in them than 2 ounces of Hevi-13 #6's. Thus, as you got to "heavier" materials, you may need to go to smaller shot sizes, i.e. most are using #8 or #9 size shot in the TSS material, as it "penetrates" comparably to a #5 or #6 lead, while offering greater pattern density.

Hevi and xtended range are both the same density, both are equal in pellet count if the payloads are the same. Both are 12 grams per cubic centimeter

 

[TheLBLman]

Hevi and xtended range are both the same density, both are equal in pellet count if the payloads are the same. Both are 12 grams per cubic centimeter

I had been under the impression that the Hevi-13's were of a denser material than the Winchester Xtendeds.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Hevi and xtended range are both the same density, both are equal in pellet count if the payloads are the same. Both are 12 grams per cubic centimeter

I had been under the impression that the Hevi-13's were of a denser material than the Winchester Xtendeds.

I think at one time they actually were, with hevi at 13 g/cc but now both are equal in weight.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Clean out your p.m's wes

 

[Andy S.]

I think at one time they actually were, with hevi at 13 g/cc but now both are equal in weight.

If I really wanted to be sure, I would do a test to determine the density (mass per unit volume) of the shot in the shells you own. Reason I say this is because I talked with a Hevi-Shot rep few days back and he assured me the density was still 13g/cc in the Hevi-13 loads. I also asked this same question to another rep few years back and he too told me that they were 13g/cc. In the end, 12 versus 13 isn't that big of difference, just thought I would point this out.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Straight from the shot-man himself this guy has handled and tested more shot than anyone here dare dream....

Here's a basic chart showing the approx, nominal pellet counts per ounce of shot of various materials and sizes; assuming true shape, true size and true density.

Lead Shot

Lead #2: 89/oz Lead #4: 136/oz Lead #5: 173/oz Lead #6: 222/oz Lead #7: 295/oz

12g/cc Shot (Hevi-Shot, Hevi-13, Win XRHD, Rem HD)

12g/cc #2: 81/oz 12g/cc #4: 125/oz 12g/cc #5: 159/oz 12g/cc #6: 209/oz 12g/cc #7: 278/oz

13g/cc Shot (ITX Extreme Turkey Trauma-13, Nitros Megaweight)

13g/cc #2: 75/oz 13g/cc #4: 115/oz 13g/cc #5: 147/oz 13g/cc #6: 193/oz 13g/cc #7: 256/oz 13g/cc #8: 352/oz

15g/cc Shot (Federal Heavyweight, Tungsten Spheres)

15g/cc #2: 65/oz 15g/cc #4: 100/oz 15g/cc #5: 127/oz 15g/cc #6: 165/oz 15g/cc #7: 219/oz 15g/cc #8: 301/oz

18g/cc Shot (TSS)

TSS #2: 54/oz TSS #4: 83/oz TSS #5: 106/oz TSS #6: 139/oz TSS #7: 185/oz TSS #8: 254/oz TSS #9: 362

 

[Andy S.]

Straight from the shot-man himself this guy has handled and tested more shot than anyone here dare dream....

I am all to familiar with his knowledge from other turkey hunting forums and his data you presented here, but I am not familiar with his testing procedures. If you will, ask him how he determined Hevi-13 to be 12 g/cc, and furthermore, ask him what his sample size was (how much testing he has done). In other words, if he cut open one shell and did some random test, I would not be near as compelled as if he tested numerous Hevi-13 shells/shot with a detailed testing procedure that could be duplicated for verification. Run that rabbit down if you have the time. I'd like to hear his answer to both of my questions (how he came to this conclusion and what level of testing was done to get there). Thanks.

 

[Andy S.]

Rock - I, too, am trying to contact Hal to ask these questions as well. I PM'd him on another forum site, awaiting his reply now.

 

[TheLBLman]

Or, we could just consider going with the Federal Heavyweights!
They ARE 15g/cc, trumping the density of everything else out there in a commercial load. If you can find them in a #7, I highly recommend you buy them. But good luck finding those #7's except in 20 gauge.

Check out this comparison below of the Federal Heavyweight #7 pellets vs. Standard Lead #5 pellets!
http://www.chuckhawks.com/federal_20gau ... y_load.htm

I was unable to find the Federal Heavyweight 12 gauge in any shot size smaller than #6's last year. Because the shot was SO dense, those loads had a lot fewer pellets, and the #6's just weren't giving the pattern density I wanted. But if could find them in a #7 . . . . . . !!! Better yet, wish they would make them available in a #8 Heavyweight. In the meantime, I'm shooting Hevi-13 straight #7's and/or the H13 "Blends" as my chambered 12 ga. turkey load. (The 20 ga. is carrying the #7 Heavyweights.)

 

[REN]

if they didnt put the stupid flight control wad in there i would love to shoot them.

 

[TheLBLman]

if they didnt put the stupid flight control wad in there i would love to shoot them.

Some people are saying it doesn't matter, while others say not to use the flight control wad in a ported choke.
My 20 gauge doesn't have a ported choke, and nothing else even comes close to those Federals in the 20 ga.

 

[woodsman87]

I have a ported choke and I have never heard not to use flite control wads in them. I have used the Federal flite control wad lead loads and it worked great.

 

[REN]

its not so much the "ported" part that causes the issue. You are not suppose to use it in a wad stripping choke. From all the tests ive done with standard ones there seems to be a difference in the chokes i use.

Maybe i would and maybe it wouldnt but with the price is that high i dont really want to buy them to see IF they will work.

 

[Andy S.]

Or, we could just consider going with the Federal Heavyweights!

I have given it a lot of thought more times than once over the last few years, but I just cannot find a reason to stray from my current setup that has proven itself time and time again in the field, under all conditions I have faced thus far. With that said, I could very easily understand and believe Federal Heavyweight users that are extremely pleased with their killing performance, considering their density and muzzle velocity.

 

[Andy S.]

If you can find them in a #7, I highly recommend you buy them. But good luck finding those #7's except in 20 gauge.

Here you go Wes. 12 gauge 3.5" Heavyweight #7s

 

[TheLBLman]

Thanks, Andy.
Am ordering, and will see what happens.
My ONLY disappointment with these Federal Heavyweights is they're only putting 1 7/8 ounce of shot in a 3 1/2" 12 ga. shell! One would think if they can find a way to get 1 1/2 ounce of shot in a 20 ga. shell, they could get at least a couple ounces in a 12 ga. shell!

But those pellets are coming out at a significantly higher velocity than the H-13 loads! Now, if they'll just pattern uniformly and dense enough, we have a winner.

 

[Andy S.]

Yesir, anytime.

 

[Grizzly Johnson]

Thanks, Andy.
Am ordering, and will see what happens.
My ONLY disappointment with these Federal Heavyweights is they're only putting 1 7/8 ounce of shot in a 3 1/2" 12 ga. shell! One would think if they can find a way to get 1 1/2 ounce of shot in a 20 ga. shell, they could get at least a couple ounces in a 12 ga. shell!

But those pellets are coming out at a significantly higher velocity than the H-13 loads! Now, if they'll just pattern uniformly and dense enough, we have a winner.

Probably has to do with the pressures..... and shot weight.

It's more of a safety issue for Federal.... for commercial loads... keep from blowing something up at a 12ga level. A handloader could up it to 2oz pretty easy I'm sure, with the time in load developement/testing, then have it tested at the lab to make sure it is still safe for the user....

 

[TheLBLman]

Probably has to do with the pressures..... and shot weight.

I'd say you're probably right about it being something to do with the pressures. BUT, darn ironic that they have put out a 1 1/2-ounce 20 gauge load! Even the Heavy-13 20 ga. loads are only 1 1/4-ounce of shot. No one else even comes close to the potency of Federal's 20 ga. turkey load.