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Xtended range or Hevi-shot mag blend?

Andy S. said:
If I really wanted to be sure, I would do a test to determine the density (mass per unit volume) of the shot in the shells you own. Reason I say this is because I talked with a Hevi-Shot rep few days back and he assured me the density was still 13g/cc in the Hevi-13 loads. I also asked this same question to another rep few years back and he too told me that they were 13g/cc. In the end, 12 versus 13 isn't that big of difference, just thought I would point this out.
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I'd be surprised if anybody that works for EM knows the exact density of any of their shot. After all the Hevi Shot Duck drama, I'm not sure what to believe from them :crazy:
 
Uncle Jesse said:
Andy S. said:
If I really wanted to be sure, I would do a test to determine the density (mass per unit volume) of the shot in the shells you own. Reason I say this is because I talked with a Hevi-Shot rep few days back and he assured me the density was still 13g/cc in the Hevi-13 loads. I also asked this same question to another rep few years back and he too told me that they were 13g/cc. In the end, 12 versus 13 isn't that big of difference, just thought I would point this out.
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I'd be surprised if anybody that works for EM knows the exact density of any of their shot. After all the Hevi Shot Duck drama, I'm not sure what to believe from them :crazy:
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I agree
 
The federal heavyweights are BAD out of my 10 ga.


2012-05-03_12-17-28_987.jpg
 
Id like to see a representative of a company that will tell you what you need to know not what you wanna hear

m highly doubting they ever handled any of the shot
 
Rockhound said:
Id like to see a representative of a company that will tell you what you need to know not what you wanna hear
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While I agree with the logic in this statement as I know plenty of salesmen, the reps I spoke with were customer service reps, not sales reps pushing a product on me. I can assure you that I will believe the repeated consistent answer of a rep from any company before I will someone typing on a keyboard at home or the office, UNLESS the person typing can substantiate his or her claim with scientific testing that can be followed and understood, and furthermore duplicated to ensure accuracy and the same conclusion regardless how many times it is performed. I have asked three different EM reps this question over the last three years, partially in hopes of getting a different answer, and they have all told me the same answer. I am not saying they are telling the truth, but I would think I could trip at least one rep up and get a different answer at some point. Maybe I will keep trying. With that said, I will choose to believe them UNLESS someone can show me the facts that suggest/prove otherwise. Have you asked Hal how he determined Hevi-13 to be 12g/cc? I would really like to hear his answer. Again, not doubting him, just want to here the supporting information to this claim. It can be fun and very informative play devil's advocate. :)
 
:) i wish all the dadgum post hadn't been deleted off the no-longer there loading section on old gobbler it was there with pics and all. There were several threads were they had tested the shot by placing the shot in a vial and seeing how much it displaced the water, and whatever from there. I was at a guys house Saturday that was talking about a jug of hevi-13 he had bought but he was cheated because it only measured 12/g
 
I just posted over on the place we talked about the other day maybe they still have the thread info
 
Well, if I get a "round tuit", will be pretty easy for me to conclude for myself whether Hevi-13 is heavier (or not) than Winchester Xtendeds. I have both in #6 shot, so I presume if I counted out say 100 pellets of each, then weigh them on my powder scale, will be pretty obvious whether they're of the same weight or if the Hevi-13 is heavier?

Don't think I can do an "apples-to-apples" weight test on the Mag Blends, but anyone see any reason why simply weighing 100 pellets of #6's from each brand wouldn't be conclusive as whether Hevi-13 is the same or heavier than Win. Xtendeds?
 
Wes Parrish said:
Well, if I get a "round tuit", will be pretty easy for me to conclude for myself whether Hevi-13 is heavier (or not) than Winchester Xtendeds. I have both in #6 shot, so I presume if I counted out say 100 pellets of each, then weigh them on my powder scale, will be pretty obvious whether they're of the same weight or if the Hevi-13 is heavier?

Don't think I can do an "apples-to-apples" weight test on the Mag Blends, but anyone see any reason why simply weighing 100 pellets of #6's from each brand wouldn't be conclusive as whether Hevi-13 is the same or heavier than Win. Xtendeds?
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If you cut one open you will see a reason, your hevi load of straight "6's" will contain shot sizes ranging from 2 to 8 most likely
 
Hal's response to me verbatim. I will take his word as the gospel because he is well respected as is Clarke who he mentions in his reply. I've got some great pointers from Clarke over the years as far as chokes and other shooting stuff goes, and now I have found the truth to this matter due to his efforts.

Andy,

Hevi-13 started out being 13g/cc, but a couple years ago, they went to 12g/cc. That has been verified by many folks through pellet counts, density tests, and by a statement from EM's CEO to Clark Bush which was posted online.

EM is intentionally deceptive about the density of their shot in its various forms, and have made a lot of waterfowlers mad at them, among others. It's puzzling, but that's the way they market for some reason.

I stand corrected. :)
 
Rockhound said:
Wes Parrish said:
Don't think I can do an "apples-to-apples" weight test on the Mag Blends, but anyone see any reason why simply weighing 100 pellets of #6's from each brand wouldn't be conclusive as whether Hevi-13 is the same or heavier than Win. Xtendeds?
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If you cut one open you will see a reason, your hevi load of straight "6's" will contain shot sizes ranging from 2 to 8 most likely
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Point well taken, but believe if use 100 average pellets from each shell, still should have a somewhat valid comparison.
 
Andy S. said:
Hevi-13 started out being 13g/cc, but a couple years ago, they went to 12g/cc. That has been verified by many folks through pellet counts, density tests, and by a statement from EM's CEO to Clark Bush which was posted online.

EM is intentionally deceptive about the density of their shot . . . . . It's puzzling, but that's the way they market for some reason.[/i]
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WOWZER!
If this is true, Hevi-13 is being very deceptive. Outright fraud.
 
I just went online to see how the Hevi-13's are "described" and found this, "HEVI-13 pellets are about 20% denser than lead."
Note, they do not list the actually density.

So, if lead has a density of 11.35 g/cc, then to be 20% denser than lead, the density should be 13.62 g/cc?
(11.35 x 1.20 = 13.62)

From the same website advertising the Hevi-13's (Cabela's), we find the ad for the Federal Heavyweights stating, "Federal's Heavyweight shot has a density of 15 grams per cubic centimeter; that's 1/3 denser than lead."

OK, 11.35 x 1.3333 = 15.13 = pretty close to 1/3 denser than lead if the Federals weigh 15 g/cc as stated.

Finally, we look at the ad for the Winchester� Supreme Elite Xtended Range Hi-Density Turkey Loads which state, "Specially formulated shot is 10% denser than lead."
If the 10% part is true, then the Winchester Xtendeds would have a density of (11.35 x 1.10) ==== 12.49 g/cc.
Based on all appearances, both Federal and Winchester appear to be truthful in their advertising here.

By contrast, if the Hevi-13's were "as advertised" in being 20% heavier than lead, they would need to weigh closer to 14 g/cc (13.62 to be exact). If they weight any less than 13 g/cc, this is truly deceptive advertising by the "Hevi" people.
 
As an aside, the common "understanding" of many, including myself, HAD been that "Hevi" shot was about 12 g/cc, while "Hevi-13" shot was about 13 g/cc.

After all, for years now, "Hevi-13" has been, AND STILL IS AS OF TODAY, advertised as being 20% heavier than lead.

And during these same years, Winchester has consistently stated their "Xtendeds" were 10% heavier than lead, while Federals said their "Heavyweights" were 1/3 heavier than lead.

If it's true that Hevi-13 weighs any less than 12.50 g/cc, I don't see any defense they could have against being purposefully fraudulent in their advertising.
 
Wes Parrish said:
If this is true, Hevi-13 is being very deceptive. Outright fraud.
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My thoughts exactly! With that said, I cannot complain one bit about the performance of the Mag Blends in the field based on my personal experiences with it.
 
Rockhound said:
And yet more evidence that hevi is not 13g/cc
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That is Hevi-Shot, not Hevi-13. I have never thought or believed Hevi-Shot was 13g/cc, but the Hevi-13 name implies 13g/cc. The fact EM markets it 20% denser than lead (11.3g/cc) as well as tell the consumer that it is when one makes an inquiry, is very deceptive. If EM would not market it 20% denser and remove the 13 from the name, it would not be so alarming to the consumer when the truth is known.
 
Wes Parrish said:
As an aside, the common "understanding" of many, including myself, HAD been that "Hevi" shot was about 12 g/cc, while "Hevi-13" shot was about 13 g/cc.

After all, for years now, "Hevi-13" has been, AND STILL IS AS OF TODAY, advertised as being 20% heavier than lead.

And during these same years, Winchester has consistently stated their "Xtendeds" were 10% heavier than lead, while Federals said their "Heavyweights" were 1/3 heavier than lead.

If it's true that Hevi-13 weighs any less than 12.50 g/cc, I don't see any defense they could have against being purposefully fraudulent in their advertising.
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My thoughts exactly Wes.
 

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