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Help Support TNDeer:
2022-24 Hunting season proposals
- Thread starter Buzzard Breath
- Start date
By state statute there isn't supposed to be a season if the population isn't sustainable. There is no way that the current season and bag limit is sustainable.
BSK
Well-Known Member
So it's better to just continue to do the things that has your population decreasing because you don't know what to do?
That looks like something that isn't going to end well.
There are some things that might/should help that certainly wouldn't hurt the population.
Sometimes common sense should override data.
I was going to say the same thing about common sense should be put in place. We all know that the health and the way the turkey population is going on a whole is trending in the opposite way that we like. Yes there's some places that have not been in decline and then there's places that have always had a "strong" population. The places with strong population may have not been hit yet or hard enough for people to see that it could change for them in a couple of years. I think WE ALL know what SOME of the problems are and it doesn't take years and years of data to see the trend of over hunted, over killed, over promoting of a limited resources. One or two years of great kill rates followed by a year or two of bad hatches or survival rates doesn't end well when they are still promoting it as Come One Come All like we have a over abundance of turkeys. Sitting on your hands and waiting for the "light bulb" to come on will only hurt the state of the turkeys in the long run.
Tnshooter15
Well-Known Member
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Not trying to rile anyone up with this question. Is the turkey population down or are you all just not seeing as many as you want to see? I can take a 20 minute drive and it would be rare not to see close to 200 turkeys any given evening. Everyone I know that tried tagged out. We did have a dip in the population for a couple of years but we still had enough birds and now they are literally in every field I drive by. Even in the middle of Farragut in the neighborhoods.
We might have 30% of the birds we had five years ago.
It is pretty disheartening if you live to hunt those birds.
It is pretty disheartening if you live to hunt those birds.
BSK
Well-Known Member
BSK
Well-Known Member
I can never see as many turkeys as I want to see lol. To answer your question for my area and hunting observation, which isn't the same for everyone. My observation is that I put many many miles under my boots going back the last 3 years at least and every year it "seems" to be less vocals in the woods, sign has been very sparse, and actually seeing turkeys is way way down. Could be for a number of reasons and I may have just had some good luck back to back to back seasons and this is what "normal" looks like. I don't have the answers but I can tell you one thing. The wma I hunt and have hunted for years is very secluded and I don't even think there's signage up saying it's a wma but the last I say 5-6 years after the "internet hunters" explosion that it has seen more and more traffic which blows my mind cause it's a WAY OFF the beaten path place. These are not local or even Tennesseans vehicles. The majority that I have seen are out of state which goes back to my concerns of promoting Tennessee as the hunter's destination with ZERO limits on how many can come. I know my area is NOT known for tremendous turkey numbers and if I saw 200 in an evening well that would be more than I've seen in the last 3 years combined.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Well, when the turkeys are dying off faster than they're being replaced with new off-spring,
it just seems "common sense" we should be killing fewer of them annually,
as we seek more data as to all the causes?
One of the problems is not a lack of data, so much as it may be a lack of common sense in interpreting the available data.
And, too much emphasis has been placed on statewide (as well as county-wide) harvest data, which has somewhat camouflaged declining longer-established flocks in some counties (and parts of counties) as "new" flocks have expanded into areas previously more void. And, those interpreting the data seem to lack understanding regarding the progressively increasing killing abilities of the "average" turkey hunter.
When I started turkey hunting, it took me several years of effort to kill my first one. Today, novice hunters watch some you-tube videos, pick up a fan, and go kill a limit of turkeys.
Yes, I'm exaggerating a bit, but not about my early days of ineffectiveness. Today's hunters have much more effective weapons, loads, and tactics than a few decades ago. Where I killed my first turkey back in the 1980's had more turkeys then than now, despite now having better nesting habitat, and still being thousands of contiguous acres of great turkey habitat.
I'm all for more data.
But while we're waiting to get it,
how about applying some pressure to the bleeding,
maybe slow it down a bit?
IMO, absolutely nothing could be simpler and more effective than delaying our season opening a week, while at the same time causing the least heartburn to TN's resident avid turkey hunters. And not for one second do I think our TWRA turkey biologist(s) haven't known this for years. But whatever their thoughts may or may not be, they're being trumped by the politics of non-resident revenue coming from a TN turkey season opening earlier than most other states.
It continues to be hard for me to grasp why it is bad to try some things that the SCIENCE says could/should help with no danger whatsoever for the population.
Honest question:
When you give one of your clients a recommendation based on your knowledge, do you KNOW beyond a doubt what the results will be?
SC Manimal
Well-Known Member
BSK is right- I'm pretty much done when I get a good one unless I have evidence of another. It needs to be pretty good evidence to continue waking up before 5 and choosing to leave my family on my day off.
I know a lot of you guys are more dedicated than I am but most of us won't continue to sacrifice as often for a slick head.
I know a lot of you guys are more dedicated than I am but most of us won't continue to sacrifice as often for a slick head.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
About deer.
I thought he was just wrong about turkeys,
but maybe he just hates turkeys more than I thought
He wants those big feathered seed-eating rats to become extinct asap!
Why? Twra wants us to kill them all. I see an all weapons season in our future. Which I'm not against. But I'm against killing off all the deer and the sky is falling.
DC219
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying it's a literal, constitutional "right". However, we presently have a right to kill two bucks per season, or are allowed to do so; whatever you want to call it. I'm simply opposed to just giving that up for any reason other than sound game management. I probably won't kill more than one buck each season, but having that second one greatly expands my hunting opportunities with my family and friends. There's a lot of people TWRA has to please, so there needs to be compromise. Maybe they could establish more big buck areas with tighter restrictions on some of the WMA's.
Off subject of corn vultures…….
If a landowner lives in a area with only a certain date to take antlerless deer with a rifle (unit D), and they are using landowner exemption tags, then said landowner should be allowed to take antlerless deer with a rifle at anytime during the regular rifle season.
On the subject of coyotes, I can tell you you'll never eradicate them.but……….I have a lot of friends in NC where there is a live market and night hunting is allowed. That added value on trapping plus the night hunting has led to a lot fewer coyotes. Everyone I knows will tell you, yes, there's still coyotes but there's nothing like they used to be. I have no data to back it up only what I've been told and what I see when I go back home, but I think having a live market plus night hunting is the ticket for controlling (not eradicating) coyotes.
If a landowner lives in a area with only a certain date to take antlerless deer with a rifle (unit D), and they are using landowner exemption tags, then said landowner should be allowed to take antlerless deer with a rifle at anytime during the regular rifle season.
On the subject of coyotes, I can tell you you'll never eradicate them.but……….I have a lot of friends in NC where there is a live market and night hunting is allowed. That added value on trapping plus the night hunting has led to a lot fewer coyotes. Everyone I knows will tell you, yes, there's still coyotes but there's nothing like they used to be. I have no data to back it up only what I've been told and what I see when I go back home, but I think having a live market plus night hunting is the ticket for controlling (not eradicating) coyotes.
you sound like you work for TWRA, if not, you would fit in just fine! how about we start with coyotes, stop writing depredation permits and open night hunting up for coyotes? how about instead of pissing money away on new trucks and boats, the TWRA puts some sort of bounty on coons,opossums and such? how about instead of outlawing pig hunting we open that up as well, how about we just use some common sense when it comes to managment of any kind? and while all that is going on, you and TWRA can play in your science labs? just a thought?
So what is the problem with the turkey population? At LBL, you can probably blame some of the issue on the hogs. But what's the leading theory on the rest of the state?
