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2022-24 Hunting season proposals

BSK said:
I would be EXTREMELY opposed to a one buck limit. There is no need for it in most parts of TN (but would not be opposed in areas that might benefit). The data shows a continuously increasing harvested buck age structure and a decline in yearling buck and button buck harvests. In addition, I think a one buck limit would be counterproductive, as many hunters would stop hunting after killing their one buck, reducing the possibility hunters taking enough antlerless deer to keep densities at necessary levels (in higher density areas).

And as I've stated many times, I strongly disagree with the practice of knocking down deer densities to "slow" the spread of CWD. This may be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater." Nothing is going to stop the spread of CWD. It is eventually going to spread through the entire whitetail's range. Only Nature is going to be able to solve the CWD problem (by developing immunity naturally). Knocking back deer densities will just drive hunters out of the sport, and hunters are THE key piece of deer management everywhere. Without hunters, there is no deer management.
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I wont hunt anymore if it goes to a 1 buck limit. They take and take and we pay more and more.
 
squirrel_hunter said:
I think trapping and night hunting works. I trapped this hunting club. I took 30 coyotes off it so far. Still all kinds of coyote sign. And even called some in and shot them. Looks like didnt even hurt the population of them there. Almost ever coyote i shot and trapped had mange bad. The coyotes here will catch peoples pets and kill them. We need more trapper and coyote hunters in the wood. I am planning on hunting this fall for deer. And for turkey in 2023 in Tn on private land. Its my wife's cousin place. He dont hunt much anymore. I just want to here them gobble. I from Arkansas. We used to have a 3 point on one side rule. Some had 4 point on one side or 15 inch spread. Most of them rules are gone because of cwd. But i still see some nice bucks. We can kill 2 bucks and 4 doe's. Or 6 doe's with a bow. Our turkeys are gone. I hunted almost ever day of season. I heard 3 different gobblers. At the most one gobbled 3 times. Didnt see any hens seen 5 jakes last day of season. We used to have a fall season bearded turkeys only. They stopped it. No jakes season opened 2 weeks later. U can only kill 1 turkey first 7 days. 2 bird limit. We can used decoys. Its unreal the hogs we have on public land. But the game and fish will only let u kill hogs. On public land during our deer rifle and ml season. I think is so bs. I think the hogs has alot to with it. Now they let us coyote hunt at night on private land 24/7 365. They started letting us trap 365 days. For coyotes coons oppsums bobcat and skunks on private land. They said it would help the turkeys. Little to late for us. Game and fish has 2 things they care the most about. Thats ducks and rainbow trout thats where they make the money at. I just dont want ya to go thru thru what we are going thru. The cwd is all over Arkansas. Same with hogs. I hope ya can get it turned around. I see way more bear sign and bears. Than turkeys and turkey sign. .
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You painted a vivid picture of the future for TN. Coyotes are impossible to control by hunting and trapping. If there is available food supply they will multiply or move into the areas where the food is. You might cut down the population temporarily but they will be back. They all have heart worm parvovirus and mange. They don't live long but long enough to multiply unfortunately. This is what the research shows.

As for CWD, it's going everywhere and we should learn how to adapt to it. The suggested management practices for more trophy bucks doesn't work as well when bucks don't live past 3.5. I agree with BSK, nature will have to work this one out. I don't think we are doing much to slow it's spread or can we do much. It's just gonna spread.

If you want more turkeys, create better nesting habitat. Trap some nest raiders like possum, skunks and coons. JMO. Forget coyotes. They aren't as big a problem as people think.
 
mike243 said:
I would be against night hunting for yotes, pretty sure I have read trapping is the best method of control, to many issues with it imo, at least with coon hunters they are a dying breed unfortunately and have to own a dog to partake, every yahoo with a rifle will have the opportunity to trespass also, most would be safe but a lot of area's it just isn't .I been involved with coon hunting since I was 3 years old and have been hauled across more property's we didn't have permission to be on than property we did, only thing needed is a safe place to park the truck, you all ready to double the license fee to double the game wardens so we can have a 2nd and 3rd shift? it's not as simple as some folks think it is when you start listing the good and bad with everything that's impacted with life's choices.
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What makes you think there will be more tresspasssing ?
 
TheLBLman said:
While I agree with you, the problem I have with TWRA regarding the turkeys is they have done very little in the meantime in terms of proactively managing the statewide turkey population. Any changes have been way too slow (by years) and way to small to make much difference.

My concern is TWRA has done too little too late.
Should point out that other agencies or managers being much more proactive have still experienced declining turkey populations.

The State of KY opens their season significantly later (even adjusted for latitude), open half as many days, and with a 2-bird limit ---- population still fragile. LBL (which is larger than many TN counties in huntable acreage) has gone to a 1-bird limit with a delayed opening, 2-week season. Turkeys there are not flourishing.

Despite significant regulatory measures seeming to do not enough, that's still no reason not to take such measures, even realizing that hunting regulations take the back seat to Mother Nature in most years.
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In my opinion, the worst thing you can do while trying to scientifically evaluate a problem is to start making changes while you're evaluating. This changes everything during the "study and learn" process. You need to find out what the actual problem(s) is first, then make changes specifically targeted towards addressing the problem. Yes, everyone wants to see improvements now, but so far all of those "proactive" states are not seeing improvements either. Let's figure out the what the problems are (and it will almost certainly be a combination of factors) before making any changes.
 
BSK said:
In my opinion, the worst thing you can do while trying to scientifically evaluate a problem is to start making changes while you're evaluating.
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Generally speaking, we are in agreement.
But when an artery has been cut, the patient is dying from blood loss, the surgeon does not wait for some report on what caused the accident before he clamps the artery.

What's going on with the turkeys is more dire than what TWRA has been proclaiming to the public.

No one is asking them to end turkey hunting, few are asking for any major changes, and most realize TWRA can control the weather and nesting success.

But now we're not only at, but way past the point, when merely opening the season a week or two later COULD be a part of their infamous "studies".

I've seen what has happened with the bobwhite quail and the sport of hunting them. Just don't want to see similar happening with the wild turkey populations in TN.
 
TheLBLman said:
What's going on with the turkeys is more dire than what TWRA has been proclaiming to the public.
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I guess that's where we disagree. The turkey population is definitely down, but I disagree that the situation is so dire that we need to ruin the on-going studies before they have reached a conclusion. A couple of years of data collection is not going to end the turkey population.
 
fairchaser said:
You painted a vivid picture of the future for TN. Coyotes are impossible to control by hunting and trapping. If there is available food supply they will multiply or move into the areas where the food is. You might cut down the population temporarily but they will be back. They all have heart worm parvovirus and mange. They don't live long but long enough to multiply unfortunately. This is what the research shows.

As for CWD, it's going everywhere and we should learn how to adapt to it. The suggested management practices for more trophy bucks doesn't work as well when bucks don't live past 3.5. I agree with BSK, nature will have to work this one out. I don't think we are doing much to slow it's spread or can we do much. It's just gonna spread.

If you want more turkeys, create better nesting habitat. Trap some nest raiders like possum, skunks and coons. JMO. Forget coyotes. They aren't as big a problem as people think.
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I seen forestry and GF guys out . The week before and the first week of turkey season. They was burning idea nesting areas here. I dont understand this because our season opened 2 weeks later. I would have thought they burnt a few turkey nest up. We used too have a 3 point rule on one side. But after cdw hit. Not antler restriction now. I know coyotes in my area are a big problem. The hunting club i am trapping. I took 30 coyotes. 40+ coons 20+ oppsums and 1 bobcat. But i think our troubles ares hogs coons and coyotes.
 
TheLBLman said:
Generally speaking, we are in agreement.
But when an artery has been cut, the patient is dying from blood loss, the surgeon does not wait for some report on what caused the accident before he clamps the artery.

What's going on with the turkeys is more dire than what TWRA has been proclaiming to the public.

No one is asking them to end turkey hunting, few are asking for any major changes, and most realize TWRA can control the weather and nesting success.

But now we're not only at, but way past the point, when merely opening the season a week or two later COULD be a part of their infamous "studies".

I've seen what has happened with the bobwhite quail and the sport of hunting them. Just don't want to see similar happening with the wild turkey populations in TN.
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Your opinion is spot on , most all of the turkey hunters would agree with.
 
BSK said:
A couple of years of data collection is not going to end the turkey population.
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A "couple" of years?

There already has been some very intense turkey data collection going on for MANY years, which is on top of the decades-long data which has been and is being collected. In fact, in some respects we had better data years ago when it included statewide brood surveys.
 
BSK said:
I guess that's where we disagree. The turkey population is definitely down, but I disagree that the situation is so dire that we need to ruin the on-going studies before they have reached a conclusion. A couple of years of data collection is not going to end the turkey population.
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They are about five years into what was supposed to be a three year study.
Their data seems to be more important to them than actually doing anything for the turkeys.

TWRA hasn't had a turkey biologist that actually cares about turkeys since Jack Murrey retired.

Science is great. Just continue to study it until the last turkey is gone and then you have a fantastic data set.
 
TheLBLman said:
FAN-TASTIC!
Yes! Best dataset ever!

On the other hand, the last bobwhite has almost gone away,
and after several decades,
they STILL haven't figured much out?
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Seems simple, same as rabbits except the rabbits excel around homes and neighborhoods. Why is that? Less predators in the neighborhoods. Everything in the woods eats rabbit, turkey, and quail.
 
Since this is the deer hunting forum, I'll stick to that....

I'm pretty happy with the hands off approach to middle TN TWRA has taken. I would like to see the 3 does per day limit reduced to 5 or 6 per person annually, no daily or season restriction. I still want ML season changed to 'any weapon' just on principle (smokeless ML with a 240g bullet at 2400fps with a range of 400y ok, but a single shot 30-30 with a range of 150y is not) , but it is no longer as important to me since my kids are now old enough to handle the recoil of a muzzleloader. But if I had little kids, I'd be pissed about excluding them from the peak of the prerut in middle TN.
 
Well, I'm sure this will ruffle some feathers, but here it is.
Muzzleloader season was first conceived before In-lines were invented. The idea was for the use of traditional style percussion and flintlock firearms such as were commonly available before the advent of cartridge arms. I believe in-lines were invented very quickly after muzzleloader seasons were established, and they have corrupted the concept.
So, I would like to see a real muzzleloader hunting season with only percussion and flintlock guns of a type that were common before the mid-1800's. There are a few States that have such a season.
Oh yeah, I absolutely despise in-lines!!!

As for the bag limits on deer, turkey, or whatever- let the biologists and others who are educated and qualified make those decisions based on scientific evidence, not on public opinion.
 
TheLBLman said:
While I agree with you, the problem I have with TWRA regarding the turkeys is they have done very little in the meantime in terms of proactively managing the statewide turkey population. Any changes have been way too slow (by years) and way to small to make much difference.

My concern is TWRA has done too little too late.
Should point out that other agencies or managers being much more proactive have still experienced declining turkey populations.

The State of KY opens their season significantly later (even adjusted for latitude), open half as many days, and with a 2-bird limit ---- population still fragile. LBL (which is larger than many TN counties in huntable acreage) has gone to a 1-bird limit with a delayed opening, 2-week season. Turkeys there are not flourishing.

Despite significant regulatory measures seeming to do not enough, that's still no reason not to take such measures, even realizing that hunting regulations take the back seat to Mother Nature in most years.
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I would be ok with them closing turkey season for a whole year…. And see then where we stand. I know folks will comment about the money it brings in. Who really cares. 1 closed season would ONLY BENEFIT the turkey flock.
Give TWRA folks a chance to figure out what is going on.
 
TheLBLman said:
A "couple" of years?

There already has been some very intense turkey data collection going on for MANY years, which is on top of the decades-long data which has been and is being collected. In fact, in some respects we had better data years ago when it included statewide brood surveys.
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You don't know the detailed studies going on now. I didn't either until I talked to some of the biologists. I was amazed at the different studies going on, looking at the problem from a number of angles. I'm VERY impressed with the thoroughness of these studies.

NEVER change the inputs while studying a natural phenomenon. That will ruin the study.
 

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