A vote for a change in season structure

[TNTomtaker01]

They were spreading chicken crap on the field next door this afternoon!

 

[ZachMarkus]

I don't think it has anything to do with the cows, my grandpa has around 200 head of cattle, he's had cows my whole life, we also had plenty of turkeys all my life, whatever happened to them wiped them out in one year and they still haven't recovered, I think it has something to do with the chicken litter but I don't know because we don't use it for fertilizer and I know landowners around us don't either.

 

[deerchaser007]

If you know why gobblers gobble then you're probably the only one that does. In an area that has an abundant number of hens I can see why they may be more silent because they're already surrounded by hens. There is no need to have to call to find one. On the flip side they ought to be more vocal in areas with few hens. Aside from that, on any two back to back days in either scenario under identical weather and circumstances, on one day they may gobble all day long and the very next day go totally silent. I don't even know if the turkeys themselves know why.

No sir, I'm not the only one. There is old timers that can tell you if that gobbler is by himself or with hens from a mile away. Just by the gobble! How? They been hunting and listening to birds before some of us were even born

Turkeys do gobble to gather hens but that's not their main purpose. A gobbler can drum up a hen just as easily. Pay attention on a good gobblin day and you will notice they are gobblin at each other, most likely to show dominance. The older the gobbler gets the less they gobble....Have you ever busted a flock up and wondered how they get back together but you haven't heard a gobble......drumming....Hens can hear it along ways off...

Thank you roost1, great to see someone else is listening and understanding turkey behavior! So, how can you apply this info to management? Just like roost said, young birds gobble! If you have a appropriate number of young males in the population they will flat out gobble their heads off to attract a hen from a mature bird. The more they gobble, it will force the mature birds to gobble in defense. If young males are not present at a appropriate number, mature birds will hardly ever gobble. So, years I don't hear young birds gobble, I really watch the number of birds I take off my farms. Sometimes none at all! I have restricted myself to only 1 bird per farm for myself. That way if my brother has luck to get one also from each the population will remain enough to complete breeding and a few mature birds left for next years early breeding.

 

[AT Hiker]

Deerchaser,
The farm I grew up on had a fantastic turkey population in the early 2000's. My bedroom window faced the back of the property and in the Spring I would open my window to purposely awake with the gobbles. Out of many years (6+) of "waking up" with the turkeys never once did the gobble every day consistently. Sure a couple would gobble here and there just about every day but one day I could here 10-15 and other days it would 1-2. There was no way I would know for sure how many gobblers where within vicinity if I only went out there to hunt.

I partly agree with you but at the same time I do not think vocalization and behavior are the end all either.


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[FARMTOFIELD]

Deerchaser,
The farm I grew up on had a fantastic turkey population in the early 2000's. My bedroom window faced the back of the property and in the Spring I would open my window to purposely awake with the gobbles. Out of many years (6+) of "waking up" with the turkeys never once did the gobble every day consistently. Sure a couple would gobble here and there just about every day but one day I could here 10-15 and other days it would 1-2. There was no way I would know for sure how many gobblers where within vicinity if I only went out there to hunt.

I partly agree with you but at the same time I do not think vocalization and behavior are the end all either.


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This, and I've also seen, this year and others, mature toms not gobble because there are a group of younger birds (2 and 3 year Olds) that run around together. He k ows he doesn't stand a chance against 4 other gobblers whether he's dominant or not

 

[Coker]

Up until the last 10, maybe 15 years, the population of turkeys has been doing just fine. TWRA has done a hell of a job with the trapping and relocating turkeys to get the population, state wide, higher than it has ever been. The only thing that has changed, from TWRA, is the introduction of the fall season and the increase in limits. Therefore, why doesn't TWRA cancel the fall season and reduce the limit back to 2 toms in the spring? Leave the season the same, which has always been, as long as I can remember, late March/early April until late April/early May.
Of course, there are other factors, that we have no control over, that will affect turkeys (ex. Weather and predation).

 

[catman529]

Don't do away with fall season statewide....just cut way back on the limits. I like me a traditional thanksgiving turkey

How many people kill more than 2 birds per year? Will changing the limit to two male birds really affect the population?


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[Setterman]

Don't do away with fall season statewide....just cut way back on the limits. I like me a traditional thanksgiving turkey

How many people kill more than 2 birds per year? Will changing the limit to two male birds really affect the population?


Sent from the talk of tap

It could and here's the reasoning, by having 4 tags it makes shooting a jake for some automatic. The thinking is why not, I've got so many tags.

If you want see what a two bird spring limit produces look at KY harvest results. They kill more birds then we do with half as much time, and half the limit and less hunters. Also, go across the border sometime, it's amazingly good hunting and probably the best eastern hunting in this country

 

[stik]

Pennsylvania has a fall season and plenty of birds

 

[muddyboots]

I have honestly seen more gobblers this year than hens.

 

[Roost 1]

Don't do away with fall season statewide....just cut way back on the limits. I like me a traditional thanksgiving turkey

How many people kill more than 2 birds per year? Will changing the limit to two male birds really affect the population?


Sent from the talk of tap

It could and here's the reasoning, by having 4 tags it makes shooting a jake for some automatic. The thinking is why not, I've got so many tags.

If you want see what a two bird spring limit produces look at KY harvest results. They kill more birds then we do with half as much time, and half the limit and less hunters. Also, go across the border sometime, it's amazingly good hunting and probably the best eastern hunting in this country

Although I do not hunt in the eastern third of KY, I somewhat dis-agree.. I would say middle TN has the absolute best turkey hunting in the country, and like you, I have hunted all over.. Texas is the only place I would say is better but that's not a fair comparison because there isn't any place like central/west TX....

 

[AT Hiker]

Don't do away with fall season statewide....just cut way back on the limits. I like me a traditional thanksgiving turkey

How many people kill more than 2 birds per year? Will changing the limit to two male birds really affect the population?


Sent from the talk of tap

It could and here's the reasoning, by having 4 tags it makes shooting a jake for some automatic. The thinking is why not, I've got so many tags.

If you want see what a two bird spring limit produces look at KY harvest results. They kill more birds then we do with half as much time, and half the limit and less hunters. Also, go across the border sometime, it's amazingly good hunting and probably the best eastern hunting in this country

Oh crap, you just brought up the fact KY has better hunting than TN!


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[deerchaser007]

Deerchaser,
The farm I grew up on had a fantastic turkey population in the early 2000's. My bedroom window faced the back of the property and in the Spring I would open my window to purposely awake with the gobbles. Out of many years (6+) of "waking up" with the turkeys never once did the gobble every day consistently. Sure a couple would gobble here and there just about every day but one day I could here 10-15 and other days it would 1-2. There was no way I would know for sure how many gobblers where within vicinity if I only went out there to hunt.

I partly agree with you but at the same time I do not think vocalization and behavior are the end all either.


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Did I say that was all there was to know what's in the vicinity? No, that is just one other part of the equation.as rockbound mentioned, large jake groups will shut down mature birds, when there is not enough mature birds in the population! Birds will never gobble consistly day to day. Are hens yelping the same everyday? Do the males not roost with hens somedays? Are they gonna gobble differently once hens start nesting and peak is ending? Did I say that vocalization and behavior are end all? No. You wanna get into the habitat portion now? I can't write a freaking book here! I'm just saying behavior and vocalization are a huge part of it that can be used in management. I will tell you this, if you don't have hens you will not have gobblers!

 

[Setterman]

Don't do away with fall season statewide....just cut way back on the limits. I like me a traditional thanksgiving turkey

How many people kill more than 2 birds per year? Will changing the limit to two male birds really affect the population?


Sent from the talk of tap

It could and here's the reasoning, by having 4 tags it makes shooting a jake for some automatic. The thinking is why not, I've got so many tags.

If you want see what a two bird spring limit produces look at KY harvest results. They kill more birds then we do with half as much time, and half the limit and less hunters. Also, go across the border sometime, it's amazingly good hunting and probably the best eastern hunting in this country

Although I do not hunt in the eastern third of KY, I somewhat dis-agree.. I would say middle TN has the absolute best turkey hunting in the country, and like you, I have hunted all over.. Texas is the only place I would say is better but that's not a fair comparison because there isn't any place like central/west TX....

I'm not talking about Rio's. Eastern birds in central KY is what I'm talking about, and yes there are more there then Middle TN, S. AL, S. MS, and anywhere you want to throw out from the experiences of myself and a bunch of buddies who run wild in KY as soon as it opens. Middle TN is incredible don't get me wrong, but the hunting in KY is simply astounding. Naturally though there are no birds in the Eastern Part of the state, which is strange

Again, KY kills as many birds as we do in 3 weeks with less hunters and a 2 bird limit, we have 6 weeks 30% more hunters and 4 tags. Those numbers say a ton, and from my perspective paint a pretty vivid picture of the differences in how the two states manage their flocks.

 

[deerchaser007]

Deerchaser,
The farm I grew up on had a fantastic turkey population in the early 2000's. My bedroom window faced the back of the property and in the Spring I would open my window to purposely awake with the gobbles. Out of many years (6+) of "waking up" with the turkeys never once did the gobble every day consistently. Sure a couple would gobble here and there just about every day but one day I could here 10-15 and other days it would 1-2. There was no way I would know for sure how many gobblers where within vicinity if I only went out there to hunt.

I partly agree with you but at the same time I do not think vocalization and behavior are the end all either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This, and I've also seen, this year and others, mature toms not gobble because there are a group of younger birds (2 and 3 year Olds) that run around together. He k ows he doesn't stand a chance against 4 other gobblers whether he's dominant or not

I will also ask y'all this? When is the last time you seen a dominant boss tom with 2 or more subordinates that were always with him? Typically, young toms groups break up mid peak breeding. Jake groups never should break, cause they are not part of the breeding. When the young toms break, this is when the bosses get their subordinates. I have not seen this the past 10 years.

 

[Setterman]

Deerchaser,
The farm I grew up on had a fantastic turkey population in the early 2000's. My bedroom window faced the back of the property and in the Spring I would open my window to purposely awake with the gobbles. Out of many years (6+) of "waking up" with the turkeys never once did the gobble every day consistently. Sure a couple would gobble here and there just about every day but one day I could here 10-15 and other days it would 1-2. There was no way I would know for sure how many gobblers where within vicinity if I only went out there to hunt.

I partly agree with you but at the same time I do not think vocalization and behavior are the end all either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This, and I've also seen, this year and others, mature toms not gobble because there are a group of younger birds (2 and 3 year Olds) that run around together. He k ows he doesn't stand a chance against 4 other gobblers whether he's dominant or not

I will also ask y'all this? When is the last time you seen a dominant boss tom with 2 or more subordinates that were always with him? Typically, young toms groups break up mid peak breeding. Jake groups never should break, cause they are not part of the breeding. When the young toms break, this is when the bosses get their subordinates. I have not seen this the past 10 years.

Almost every bird I killed this year came in with a minion or two, not strutting and not gobbling but certainly part of the pack. I have no idea the age as I never rolled them over to see spurs, but they were certainly subordinate.

I've also seen lone groups of strutters with no hens that would gobble but not budge, very subordinate behavior. I've seen jakes strutting with hens, I've seen a dominant bird fighting off several other longbeards, winning the battle running 3 other longbeards out of the field.

My point is there are no absolutes or rules with anything related to turkeys. The social structures of breeding groups changes from week to week, day to day, and hour to hour. Other then the super dominant birds it seems that it is an ever changing thing in most of the places I hunt that have large mature gobbler populations, and lots of hens. By now most every gobbler has acquired at least one hen, but that was yesterday, who knows what'll be tomorrow.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Seen it twice on 2 farms this year. last year I seen 7 gobblers hang together with a drove of hens all day everyday, until we doubled on them. 3 dominant strutters, and 4 that just hung around

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Here's another crazy thing I've seen, I slipped in on the dominant Tom on one of my farms. He gobbled once that morning while 7 others were tearing it up on surrounding ridges.I could see him strutting, and drumming on the limb. They flew down and I made a few soft yelps on a trumpet, him and his hens both walked right up to collect the spare hen, and I killed him.

The next time we hunted all the gobblers and hens had moved about 1/4 mile off the property into the yards of the homes around the place. We would see them all as we left just strutting around I'm the yards and we could hear them gobble of a morning on the hill behind the houses.

Monday they were all there in the yards. Tuesday 4 toms were roosted in different locations back on the farm I can hunt, no hens but none would even think about coming in. As I drove out, there in the yard was the hens they had not left.

Made me wonder, did the gobblers know, there wasn't supposed to be a hen that far up?

 

[deerchaser007]

Setterman and rockbound, that is freaking awesome! It is getting pitiful in southeastern middle TN. I'm a lot like mega, this is my home, this is were I have hunted my whole life and I have never cared about hunting elsewhere. But I am starting to think its time for me to venture out. I will say, I have a group of Jakes this year. 5 jakes together, that is a first in 5 years. They run with a 2.5 year old that gobbles at everything! He never shuts up! He gobbles, they gobble. Then the few mature birds left gobble on other ridges. I miss the ole days of hunting that dominant gobbler with his subordinates. It one thing to outsmart a single dominant, but when you can outsmart that group together its righteous!

 

[AT Hiker]

Deerchaser,
The farm I grew up on had a fantastic turkey population in the early 2000's. My bedroom window faced the back of the property and in the Spring I would open my window to purposely awake with the gobbles. Out of many years (6+) of "waking up" with the turkeys never once did the gobble every day consistently. Sure a couple would gobble here and there just about every day but one day I could here 10-15 and other days it would 1-2. There was no way I would know for sure how many gobblers where within vicinity if I only went out there to hunt.

I partly agree with you but at the same time I do not think vocalization and behavior are the end all either.


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Did I say that was all there was to know what's in the vicinity? No, that is just one other part of the equation.as rockbound mentioned, large jake groups will shut down mature birds, when there is not enough mature birds in the population! Birds will never gobble consistly day to day. Are hens yelping the same everyday? Do the males not roost with hens somedays? Are they gonna gobble differently once hens start nesting and peak is ending? Did I say that vocalization and behavior are end all? No. You wanna get into the habitat portion now? I can't write a freaking book here! I'm just saying behavior and vocalization are a huge part of it that can be used in management. I will tell you this, if you don't have hens you will not have gobblers!

If you are trying to successfully get your point across might I suggest you use fewer exclamation points.

Also, tell us stubborn hunters what we need to know instead of asking us opened ended questions or giving us homework on a theory that you and a few others share.

Even if your theory is true, hunters spend to few days in the field to make a connection to their vocalization that applying that logic to management would be insane. So that is why I think the state agency (the one we pay) should do the best they can. Do they need improvement? Yes sir, I believe we can all agree on that, but Im sure they can do a better job at it than the vast majority of hunters. Simply by knowing a vast array of hunters I will never put my faith in their hands to properly manage the wildlife. Sure, some of us know a little and some a lot but the majority know how to kill and thats about it (nothing wrong with it either).


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