Agree or Disagree?

[knightrider]

Yes.

That was once true. Just not necessarily the case with the "trophy" velvet buck hunt.
This particular hunt is more about an extra opportunity to kill a trophy buck, more than it is about archery being harder. It's actually pretty easy to kill a velvet buck over a corn pile in late August.

Totally agree.
But hunting ethics have been greatly replaced with the desire to get facebook credits for killing a big buck, no matter how it was killed. Many are simply killing pet deer in people's back yards, then telling others what a great bowhunter they are.

The single biggest problem I have with the August velvet hunt is how vulnerable older bucks are to illegal corn baiting, easily patterned, easily poached with impunity. TWRA has come up with yet another idea that tends to reward the dishonest poacher, while punishing the ethical honest hunters.

Am saying this in part because only a teeny, tiny percentage of ethical TN deer hunters have any interest whatsoever in deer hunting in August. The velvet hunt causes an increase in poached bucks, mostly older bucks, which takes those older bucks out of what was available for all hunters.

Never mind the negative images portrayed to non-hunters about this particular "trophy" buck hunt, which cannot be so easily countered with hunters are providing a service in deer population control, and providing healthy venison as a food source.

Ideas such as the "trophy" velvet buck hunt just put us one step closer to less hunting period.

It's not all bad, just that, imo, the positives of this hunt do not off-set the negatives, when everything is considered in full context, rather any one ethical hunter's desire to kill a trophy velvet buck.

Lets see those poaching stats

 

[Wooden Arrow]

experts believe that only between 1 % and 5 % of poachers are caught in any given year. probably closer to the 1% on private property unless land owners catch them. google it, don't take my word...

 

[TheLBLman]

I don't agree with that at all. I don't see it. . . . . .

. . . . . . Crying about it doesn't make it wrong. You're literally saying it's unfair that I'm allowed to go out in the miserable summer and kill that buck with a bow before you can kill him with a gun . . . . . .

I never expected you to agree or see everything the same as some are seeing things.
And I believe you're crying more about my thoughts than I'm crying about the velvet hunt?

You're assigning superiority to your wants and your style over mine and broad brush painting everybody else as a poacher to justify it.

I'm definitely not doing that. Erroneous assumption on your behalf.
You don't know me, at all. I don't know you either, but am taking your word for face value.

As long as humans have hunted deer, antlers have been a trophy. Pretend to be something you're not if you feel you must but don't expect me to. I'm comfortable being what I am.

I totally agree with this. I am also a trophy deer hunter, and haven't meant to come across as putting you down in any way. You asked for my opinion, then went on the "attack the messenger" when you didn't like my thoughts.

I'm not sorry for being a trophy hunter. I'm not ashamed. And I'm not the problem.

Never said you were.
Only saying the reality is we, as hunters, are in the minority of people,
and avid trophy hunters (like you, and me) are in the minority of hunters.

The anti-hunting crowd in large is never going to accept hunting under any circumstances.

You are correct.
Fortunately at the moment, the anti-hunting crowd doesn't out-number those who hunt.
But the non-hunting crowd (which included antis) greatly outnumbers us.
One of my concerns is more non-hunters becoming anti-hunters.
Our actions and appearances to the non-hunters effect the direction this goes.

And that's the lunatics you're afraid of?

Not at all afraid. But do understand the reality of a super-majority typically getting their way over a minority when it comes to voting on issues. As hunters, we are in the minority, and our image to non-hunters does matter.

Hunting isn't going anywhere and the velvet trophy hunt isn't doing anything to harm hunting's image and certainly isn't hurting other hunters.

I just disagree with you.

"Sport" hunting as we have known it is going to diminish, particularly on public lands.
Never mind that you and I are on the same page in believing our hunting is totally ethical and a legitimate thing for us to be doing with much of our time. That even includes either of us participating in a summertime trophy velvet buck hunt.

 

[TheLBLman]

But do you know the circumstances under which the idea of TN to have this "trophy" velvet buck hunt originated? Who came up with it?

Below is how I understand it, please correct me if I'm wrong.

One of the then commissioners wanted to start selling (mainly to non-residents of TN) guided trophy buck hunts on his extensive TN property. TN could not and cannot compete in antler scores with nearby states like KY & IL, therefore the cost of such hunts would be much less than a guided hunt in any "trophy destination state".

The idea of creating a new type of "trophy" was spawned. By having a summertime hunt for "trophy velvet" bucks, this would allow TN to offer something "different" than most "trophy destination" states, therefore, ability to run the price up for these guided hunts. How many states then or now, allow any deer hunting in August?

To dive deeper, why do you think the summertime trophy velvet hunts were not allowed on public lands?

Truth is, the idea of creating a summertime deer hunt was much more about increasing non-resident license sales in TN, and creating a new market for some large landowners (and/or leases) wanting to sell these unique trophy hunts to non-residents?

So again, It's not that I'm losing sleep over it, but believe the overall negatives outweigh the positives to the resident sportsmen of Tennessee, and the future of hunting in general (not just deer hunting). I suspect for every trophy velvet buck hunter afield the last weekend of August, there will be some juvenile squirrel hunter's parent not letting their child hunt this same weekend (opening of squirrel season), for the sole reason of avoiding conflict with deer hunters.

We need to be increasing the number of lifetime hunters (not just deer hunters, but hunters), to help insure the future of hunting as we have known it, and would like for it to continue. This has been best accomplished better by starting hunters out with small game more than big game. Squirrel hunting has been one of the best ways. The trophy velvet hunt displaces some of the juvenile squirrel hunting, whether the reasoning is real or perceived, still is happening.

I'm not at all opposed to non-residents being able to hunt in TN. Just don't see how purposefully trying to bring more non-resident hunters in via a summer-time deer hunt helps TN's resident deer hunters. More competition for a shrinking acreage of huntable lands? Higher lease prices?

Part of the original thought was if we can sell them a non-resident license in August, they'll come back to hunt during the regular deer season as well. More license revenue benefits TWRA, and having more tourist hunters come to TN is seen as an economic benefit to many. But to what extent does it benefit the resident hunters of TN?

Fortunately or unfortunately, the deer hunting world has not embraced the idea of summertime deer hunting to the extent expected by the commissioner pushing it?

 

[Hymie3]

Disagree. Two could go to one. One could go to zero.

 

[mike243]

While I own a crossbow I really don't want a velvet buck, that said why is it limited to arrows? gun hunters are being discriminated because ? , they already get more time in the woods and higher limits. Coarse I think they used rifles in the CWD county's and it didn't destroy the deer herd lol

 

[tbadon]

But do you know the circumstances under which the idea of TN to have this "trophy" velvet buck hunt originated? Who came up with it?

Below is how I understand it, please correct me if I'm wrong.

One of the then commissioners wanted to start selling (mainly to non-residents of TN) guided trophy buck hunts on his extensive TN property. TN could not and cannot compete in antler scores with nearby states like KY & IL, therefore the cost of such hunts would be much less than a guided hunt in any "trophy destination state".

The idea of creating a new type of "trophy" was spawned. By having a summertime hunt for "trophy velvet" bucks, this would allow TN to offer something "different" than most "trophy destination" states, therefore, ability to run the price up for these guided hunts. How many states then or now, allow any deer hunting in August?

To dive deeper, why do you think the summertime trophy velvet hunts were not allowed on public lands?

Truth is, the idea of creating a summertime deer hunt was much more about increasing non-resident license sales in TN, and creating a new market for some large landowners (and/or leases) wanting to sell these unique trophy hunts to non-residents?

So again, It's not that I'm losing sleep over it, but believe the overall negatives outweigh the positives to the resident sportsmen of Tennessee, and the future of hunting in general (not just deer hunting). I suspect for every trophy velvet buck hunter afield the last weekend of August, there will be some juvenile squirrel hunter's parent not letting their child hunt this same weekend (opening of squirrel season), for the sole reason of avoiding conflict with deer hunters.

We need to be increasing the number of lifetime hunters (not just deer hunters, but hunters), to help insure the future of hunting as we have known it, and would like for it to continue. This has been best accomplished better by starting hunters out with small game more than big game. Squirrel hunting has been one of the best ways. The trophy velvet hunt displaces some of the juvenile squirrel hunting, whether the reasoning is real or perceived, still is happening.

I'm not at all opposed to non-residents being able to hunt in TN. Just don't see how purposefully trying to bring more non-resident hunters in via a summer-time deer hunt helps TN's resident deer hunters. More competition for a shrinking acreage of huntable lands? Higher lease prices?

Part of the original thought was if we can sell them a non-resident license in August, they'll come back to hunt during the regular deer season as well. More license revenue benefits TWRA, and having more tourist hunters come to TN is seen as an economic benefit to many. But to what extent does it benefit the resident hunters of TN?

Fortunately or unfortunately, the deer hunting world has not embraced the idea of summertime deer hunting to the extent expected by the commissioner pushing it?

I do agree that the velvet hunt should not be the same date as opening weekend of squirrel season. TWRA would serve us well to move one or the other.

 

[CrossVolle]

.I'm not at all opposed to non-residents being able to hunt in TN. Just don't see how purposefully trying to bring more non-resident hunters in via a summer-time deer hunt helps TN's resident deer hunters. More competition for a shrinking acreage of huntable lands? Higher lease prices?

This is the biggest piece of contention that sours the entire thing for me. I don't care who wants to go hunt in 90 degree heat. Have at it. Doesn't affect me any. But if you're gonna lock it down for private lands only it seems as if the nonresidents should have no place participating. Jmo.

I would like to see the kill statistics resident vs. nonresident. The point may be moot cause I will admit I haven't looked. But your premise I agree with.

 

[Cull Buck Hunter]

Dumb idea in my opinion. 2 Bucks and one has to be 15 inch, 8pt or something like that. I look forward to my trips every year and an early kill ends my season with 1 buck, bad idea, terrible idea well you get the point

 

[redblood]

experts believe that only between 1 % and 5 % of poachers are caught in any given year. probably closer to the 1% on private property unless land owners catch them. google it, don't take my word...

Id say that is right.