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Alabama leading the way

I used to enjoy watching a turkey hunt on tv or video and remember the older ones by Knight & Hale, Primos, Bob Walker, Preston Pitman, even the Drury's were tolerable then. To me it was yet another a chance to observe wild turkey behavior, see new country through other's hunts, and maybe add/tweak a tactic in my own bag of tricks.

I'm almost embarrassed to be a turkey hunter when reading what mega mentions above. It's a shame this is what passes as turkey hunting.
 
Seems to me you simply regulate the number of Toms that can be taken and you control the turkey population. I used to hunt turkeys more, with and without decoys, but they have become so abundant in numbers it stopped being hard to kill one so it became less interesting to me. I am not big on more TWRA regulations but do believe we need to take heed of what other states we share borders with are doing and stay up on what science is telling us.
 
I used to enjoy watching a turkey hunt on tv or video and remember the older ones by Knight & Hale, Primos, Bob Walker, Preston Pitman, even the Drury's were tolerable then. To me it was yet another a chance to observe wild turkey behavior, see new country through other's hunts, and maybe add/tweak a tactic in my own bag of tricks.

I'm almost embarrassed to be a turkey hunter when reading what mega mentions above. It's a shame this is what passes as turkey hunting.
Yep! And one of the main reasons I ditched the big cable and went with some streaming services. I can actually learn and pick up a few things here and there from DIY guys that aren't, nor do they want to be, celebrities. I remember meeting Harold Knight when I was young and it was one of my most memorable moments ever being a hunter. My dad bought a call from him, he tweeked it, signed it for me and I still carry it to this day. His message he left me on the call is fading. Those times and folks seem to be a thing of the past.
 
Wouldn't it be nice for him to share his thoughts at all the meetings twra and the commission have? I was hoping it would have happened long before now.

I actually exchanged several emails with Dr. Chamberlain last year before the TN's commission meeting setting seasons for the next two years. He was uncommonly responsive, friendly, and helpful. He told me directly that he would love the opportunity to give a presentation to the TN commission, he would do it at no cost to the state even for travel and boarding, and he has a presentation already prepared that he has given for various state wildlife boards/commissions that has been very well received. All he needed was an invitation and he would be there, or he would do it via zoom given the covid situation. Apparently the TN Commission previously worked with him as a consultant, but they had not contacted him since the previous Wild Turkey Program Coordinator took over (before Shields)

Then I contacted my district commissioner (Box) who was completely on board. Then I called Chairman Holbert who was anything but on board. He openly opposed the idea, told me that not everyone agrees with Chamberlains theories (emphasizing that "they are just theories")—including UT biologist Craig Harper who is overseeing the middle TN study— and he reminded me that turkeys many places are doing fine, including his farms around Decatur County. Side note—Harper is well respected but he is most notably a deer biologist.

I acknowledged that there can be professional disagreement about best management practices, but wouldn't it be better for the commissioners to hear both sides before making a big decision at a critical time for wild turkeys—especially when the presentation would come from one of, if not the, leading authorities in the world, and would be offered FOR FREE? We ended the call with him reluctantly saying that he would invite Chamberlain to give the presentation if a majority of Commissioners wanted to do it.

Then I sent a group email to all of the commissioners explaining Chamberlain's willingness to give the presentation, and Holbert's "agreement" to invite him if a majority wanted to.

I wasn't copied on whatever internal discussions followed, but they never invited Chamberlain. Unofficially, it is my understanding that they didn't want to bring in an outside voice that would disagree with Harper's opinions since they have spent millions of dollars on this middle TN study with Harper at the helm. Personally, I think if Harper already has preconceived opinions that are in such need of protection, he shouldn't be leading the study. But I digress.

Ultimately, the commission made the conscious decision to proceed with less information rather than receiving more information from an exceptionally qualified source. Above all else (including turkeys themselves) protect the study.
 
I actually exchanged several emails with Dr. Chamberlain last year before the TN's commission meeting setting seasons for the next two years. He was uncommonly responsive, friendly, and helpful. He told me directly that he would love the opportunity to give a presentation to the TN commission, he would do it at no cost to the state even for travel and boarding, and he has a presentation already prepared that he has given for various state wildlife boards/commissions that has been very well received. All he needed was an invitation and he would be there, or he would do it via zoom given the covid situation. Apparently the TN Commission previously worked with him as a consultant, but they had not contacted him since the previous Wild Turkey Program Coordinator took over (before Shields)

Then I contacted my district commissioner (Box) who was completely on board. Then I called Chairman Holbert who was anything but on board. He openly opposed the idea, told me that not everyone agrees with Chamberlains theories (emphasizing that "they are just theories")—including UT biologist Craig Harper who is overseeing the middle TN study— and he reminded me that turkeys many places are doing fine, including his farms around Decatur County. Side note—Harper is well respected but he is most notably a deer biologist.

I acknowledged that there can be professional disagreement about best management practices, but wouldn't it be better for the commissioners to hear both sides before making a big decision at a critical time for wild turkeys—especially when the presentation would come from one of, if not the, leading authorities in the world, and would be offered FOR FREE? We ended the call with him reluctantly saying that he would invite Chamberlain to give the presentation if a majority of Commissioners wanted to do it.

Then I sent a group email to all of the commissioners explaining Chamberlain's willingness to give the presentation, and Holbert's "agreement" to invite him if a majority wanted to.

I wasn't copied on whatever internal discussions followed, but they never invited Chamberlain. Unofficially, it is my understanding that they didn't want to bring in an outside voice that would disagree with Harper's opinions since they have spent millions of dollars on this middle TN study with Harper at the helm. Personally, I think if Harper already has preconceived opinions that are in such need of protection, he shouldn't be leading the study. But I digress.

Ultimately, the commission made the conscious decision to proceed with less information rather than receiving more information from an exceptionally qualified source. Above all else (including turkeys themselves) protect the study.
Good for you! I applaud your efforts in this. Agreed - why not hear BOTH sides and the difference of opinion? It's all politics. I have a LOT of respect for Dr. Harper, but agree, he is more focused and knowledgeable on deer. Maybe our best efforts are wen this "study" is completed.
 
All species that are hunted can be compared, one so wise as to claim otherwise doesn't want to be proven wrong. Not to be misinterpreted, I support trying to keep turkey numbers at a certain level and applaud you for having the same goal, however, to claim "googans" or anyone you deem to be a less talented hunter than you because they use decoys is the cause of the problem seems to be quite narcissistic.
 
All species that are hunted can be compared, one so wise as to claim otherwise doesn't want to be proven wrong. Not to be misinterpreted, I support trying to keep turkey numbers at a certain level and applaud you for having the same goal, however, to claim "googans" or anyone you deem to be a less talented hunter than you because they use decoys is the cause of the problem seems to be quite narcissistic.

I assume you have squirrel hunted and deer hunted with a rifle. So applying your logic, we should also hunt turkeys with rifles.
 
So, tell me what my logic was?

I think it's obvious, but I'll play along.

You argument was that all game species are comparable.

All species that are hunted can be compared . . .

We hunt other species a particular way, so people shouldn't criticize the application of those tactics to other species.

Would you be opposed to planting a food plot, setting up a tree stand and waiting on a mature buck to show?

So I'm curious where you stand on shooting turkeys with a .270?
 
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All species that are hunted can be compared, one so wise as to claim otherwise doesn't want to be proven wrong. Not to be misinterpreted, I support trying to keep turkey numbers at a certain level and applaud you for having the same goal, however, to claim "googans" or anyone you deem to be a less talented hunter than you because they use decoys is the cause of the problem seems to be quite narcissistic.
If we are comparing species and hunting as the same. I assume you support rifles for killing turkeys? In most states baiting deer is legal, so I guess you support that for turkeys? Heck, your shoot coons out of trees at night with aid of a light, ready for a Turkey roost shoot because that's legal?

See the flaws in your logic? You can't pick and choose if we are going to compare everything.

yes the hunter who stakes a strutter in a field, crawls in a blind with no call, and shoots a Turkey that runs in is a 100% googan to me. I am admitting I look down on them, and am embarrassed they are considered Turkey hunters like me or other hunters who hunt traditionally.
 
Some people just will never understand.
I don't argue with the group with shut ears. I try to explain to those that want to listen.

Get rid of the decoys the turkey population rebounds. It all makes too much sense.

If you have a bad hatch or two, you still have three and four year old gobblers to hunt and do the breeding.

Comparing species to species hunting styles and tactics is impossible. Every animal is hunted differently for fair chase and sport.

Deer should be scouted and set up on according to wind directions and such. I don't think it's too hard to sit in a shooting house in a big food plot and snipe them.

Squirrel hunting is usually done with dogs or still hunting.

Quail hunting done with dogs.

rabbits and dogs.

Doves are shot as they fly over a field that was prepped by you or another person or farm.

Ducks are called in to work into a decoy spread. Any googan can go and sit on the edge of someone else's duck set ups and shoot the fly by ducks and swing shoot and sky bust. Legal yes. Sporting hell no.

Turkeys are meant to be called up to within 45 yards and shot in the head with a shot gun. Fooling him at his own game. His game is to gobble and strut to attract hens. His game is to also fight off intruder gobblers. Hence too easy to stick a male decoy in a cow pasture.

Anyone that hunts turkeys with the decoys strategy truly looses the unique experience of calling up a gobbling bird. It cheapens the turkey. It lessens their splendor and awe.

While I'm at it, I'm also a dedicated fall turkey hunter. Those that despise or think it's too easy have never done it like I have. True fall hunting isn't sitting around and waiting to shoot a flock that walks by you. It's intense scouting in big hardwoods. Listening even more than the spring. Walking more than in the spring. Find some birds and do the best you can to scatter them every direction. Wait several minutes and try to call one back up. Same calling technique used in spring, set up where he's in range when you see him. But my fall hunting is gobblers only. Anyone that would shoot a hen on purpose should not be hunting turkeys.

I'm extremely protective and selfish with turkeys. If you do it right, and truly enjoy pursuing the wild turkey and do everything you can to promote more turkeys I'll help you out and be happy for you as much or more than I am myself.
To those that just shoot and hunt them because they can, or that brag about crawling and using fans and decoys, then I'll always thing you don't deserve that bird.
 
I think it's obvious, but I'll play along.

You argument was that all game species are comparable.



We hunt other species a particular way, so people shouldn't criticize the application of those tactics to other species.



So I'm curious where you stand on shooting turkeys with a .270?
I too will play along, In a thread about using decoys to harvest turkeys there was never a mention about using rifles to kill turkeys, your inability to comprehend should have been considered on my behalf, for that I apologize. To me( important two words) there is no difference in hunting a deer over a food plot than hunting a turkey over a decoy; both used to lure said species within range of the legal weapon.
 
If we are comparing species and hunting as the same. I assume you support rifles for killing turkeys? In most states baiting deer is legal, so I guess you support that for turkeys? Heck, your shoot coons out of trees at night with aid of a light, ready for a Turkey roost shoot because that's legal?

See the flaws in your logic? You can't pick and choose if we are going to compare everything.

yes the hunter who stakes a strutter in a field, crawls in a blind with no call, and shoots a Turkey that runs in is a 100% googan to me. I am admitting I look down on them, and am embarrassed they are considered Turkey hunters like me or other hunters who hunt traditionally.
Your logic is similar to the logic used by liberals to turn words into something other than their intent. I think we can always find similarities between methods used to lure a species within range of the legal weapon. However, some folks just prefer to argue.
 
I simply hunt for meat. The fact that I get to peruse the woods instead of a grocery store is an added bonus. In pursuit of meat I desire the most expedient legal means. If decoys are legal and they increase my chances of having a more full freezer, then I am using decoys. I also recognize that the meat I'm after is a limited resource. I trust biologists to inform decision makers on how best to protect said resource. If that means they make decoys illegal, then I stop using decoys. Its all rather simple and impersonal to me. I'm a terrible caller, mediocre woodsman and 100% googan...but I can sure make good smoked buffalo turkey sandwiches...
 
Your logic is similar to the logic used by liberals to turn words into something other than their intent. I think we can always find similarities between methods used to lure a species within range of the legal weapon. However, some folks just prefer to argue.


Ok. So electronic callers should be legal, correct?
 
I simply hunt for meat. The fact that I get to peruse the woods instead of a grocery store is an added bonus. In pursuit of meat I desire the most expedient legal means. If decoys are legal and they increase my chances of having a more full freezer, then I am using decoys. I also recognize that the meat I'm after is a limited resource. I trust biologists to inform decision makers on how best to protect said resource. If that means they make decoys illegal, then I stop using decoys. Its all rather simple and impersonal to me. I'm a terrible caller, mediocre woodsman and 100% googan...but I can sure make good smoked buffalo turkey sandwiches...
Well said
 
I trust biologists to inform decision makers on how best to protect said resource.
That is part of the problem. Many times over, and several very recent, the decision makers do not listen to, or align with the biologists who spend the time in the field, study the wildlife, and know the resource as good as any. This is why public feedback in February right before season setting Commission meeting is invaluable. Face to face feedback at the Commission meeting seems to carry the most weight, but it is also the least convenient and least likely to happen for most working class hunters/conservationists.
 

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