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Bridgestone Firestone Clearcut

CFAZ

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The Champ Ferguson Autonomous Zone
Hey Guys. New member here but long time reader. Love to read here for the info but never join or post as I am not much of an internet or social media person. But thought this subject would be of interest to many here so am breaking my self imposed exile for just this topic and thread only.

A few weeks ago was doing some work on my deer huntin patch (we call it the Champ Ferguson Autonomous Zone) up on the plateau and heard on the radio about some White County hunters expressing their concerns about clearcutting at Bridgestone WMA. I had been there this year and knew they were cutting out some of the pines for quail habitat, but it turns out much of the hardwood is slated to go too, which in my opinion will just about destroy the deer hunting there. So after doing some research I found that State Representive Sherrell was involved in trying to set up a meeting with the TWRA to discuss it. So I sent him an email, along with all the other area reps, but so far have only heard back from Senator Mark Pody who let me know he is looking into it. This is a great hunting area and I thought the guys here should know whats going on before they just show up one day to hunt and find your huntin spot is now just broomsedge and kudzu.

Sorry to be such a downer with my first post but I figure there are guys here that are not going to be really happy if they knew this being planned. I use the area several times a year and I know I wasn't when I heard about it.

Will try to post the pertinent links but I am new to this so it might take me a few tries.

Link to news radio bit.

Link to Rep Sherrells FB regarding meeting (note the video no longer exists)


Here is the text of the email I sent.

We are writing to express our concerns regarding the TWRA's plan to clearcut a huge swath of mature hardwood forest at the Bridgestone Firestone WMA in an attempt to expand the quail habitat there. We first heard of this on the radio last week while visiting our property in Van Buren County, then saw on Facebook where you were involved in addressing your local constituents concerns in this regard. Although we do not reside in your district my wife and I are frequent users of this property for hiking, and as a regular Sportsman License holder I sometimes hunt there as well. We would like to chime in with our opposition to this project.

We were hiking at Bridgestone this spring and were shocked at the "war zone " appearance of the property just south of the Virgin Falls trailhead. All of what was once a nice pine forest had been clearcut, leaving just open broomsedge and logging slag, and it was already starting to erode. We also noticed that there had been proscribed burning done in the hardwood sections, and with apparently no controls to keep it out of the hollows and into the fragile Hemlock forested areas. As you may be aware, Hemlock forests nationwide are dying off and may be going the way of the American Chestnut due to the wooly adelgid. Then on top of that we now hear that a thousand of acres of mature hardwood is planned for clearcut as well.


Bridgestone WMA is one of the few areas in middle tennessee where outdoors folks can enjoy the experience of "big woods" hiking and hunting. In our opinion it would be practically criminal to have much of it all cut down, especially since the plan isn't to restore it but rather to turn it into "pine savannah" for "quail habitat". As I understand the TWRAs quail plan, they are essentially attempting to turn lands intended for public hunting into regional "quail sanctuaries", with a target population of 1 quail per 4 acres, with only limited hunting if any until the target populations are reached.. Or to put it another way, a 1000 acre hardwood forest that can support maybe a hundred deer and turkeys, and thousands of squirrels, will be destroyed in the future hope that maybe 250 quail will someday live there. Further, what makes this seem even more nonsensical is that Bridgestone WMA already has thousands of acres of quail habitat, and practically no quail. There is a roughly 700 acre open field area around the maintenance shops that only offers limited hunting. Then there are several thousand acres of pine planation and scrub fields to the south of the river and Scotts Gulf; ideal quail habitat, but again very few quail. Then there are the open fields to the west in the Big Bottom area along the Caney Fork, but that area seems mainly to be managed as open pasture for wild hogs to root in. In other words, Bridgestone already has lots of quail habitat, but due to TWRA mismanagement, there are likely more wild hogs than quail. We see no reason whatsoever for the TWRA to intentionally destroy these perfectly good hardwood forests in a futile attempt to reestablish a sanctuary for a species in numbers that are just not viable in todays environment of exploding coyote and bobcat and hawk/owl populations that will always outnumber the quail themselves, especially on what is intended to be hunting land for the use of and paid for by hunters.
 
You can watch state representative discuss it with commission at last meeting and hear the responses from biologists, etc.
 
I think it is an awesome idea. Every form of hunting has taken a back seat to deer and turkey hunting for far too long. It is time to shift the focus. Have you read the new quail management plan?
I'm a deer hunter but I'm also a bird hunter. I tend to take my dogs on private land because bird season and deer season coincide. I'd hate for a deer hunter to shoot one of my dogs that is legally bird hunting. I'd have to claim self defense.
 
I think it is an awesome idea. Every form of hunting has taken a back seat to deer and turkey hunting for far too long. It is time to shift the focus. Have you read the new quail management plan?
I'm a deer hunter but I'm also a bird hunter. I tend to take my dogs on private land because bird season and deer season coincide. I'd hate for a deer hunter to shoot one of my dogs that is legally bird hunting. I'd have to claim self defense.
I grew up quail hunting back towards the twilight of the heyday back in the late 1960s.. My dad raised English Setters, advertised his kennel and bloodlines in Outdoor Life and Sports Afield, along with some other trade mag I can't remember. We attended field trials and had a bunch of trophies. i used to help train the dogs on our own land using the quail we raised in our call back pens (to the newbies - you kept a chocolate chip cookie quail in a pen with a cone shaped funnel ramp that would call the covey (most of the anyway), back to the pen after you were done training for the day). So while I too like quail hunting, I pretty much consider those days as gone. nomatter how much habitat you have, there aint ever gonna be no quail again in numbers like those days without put and take stocking and feeding. Especially on the plateau.

In one 2 week camera run this summer on CFAZ i had 35 bobcat pics, a ton of coyotes, several foxes, and one bear. Back in the day there were fewer bobcats, zero coyotes, where I lived there was a bounty on hawks and owls, There already is tons of quail habitat on the plateau, even on Bridgestone, but very few quail, and its gonna always be that way so long as the predators outnumber the quail, which they always will.

Now of course, although I have a forestry degree from long ago in a galaxy far far away, I aint no government biologist,. But on the other hand, I never thought it would be a good idea to stock alewife, or pay farmers to plant Kudzu either.
 
I see nothing good about pines , Hemlocks are a different breed imo, no mismanagement from twra on hogs, blame the folks who hauled them in and turned them loose. I think that any person trespassing onto a WMA needs to pony up some $ for the right . Seen the game warden blast 3 bike riders yesterday and told them it was a $350 fine while hunting was in progress at Forks of The River. also Pody has nothing in the fight as Dekalb county is his farthest east county as far as I can see.
 
Never in my life have I seen a bounty or heard of 1 on any bird of prey in modern times
 
I grew up quail hunting back towards the twilight of the heyday back in the late 1960s.. My dad raised English Setters, advertised his kennel and bloodlines in Outdoor Life and Sports Afield, along with some other trade mag I can't remember. We attended field trials and had a bunch of trophies. i used to help train the dogs on our own land using the quail we raised in our call back pens (to the newbies - you kept a **** quail in a pen with a cone shaped funnel ramp that would call the covey (most of the anyway), back to the pen after you were done training for the day). So while I too like quail hunting, I pretty much consider those days as gone. nomatter how much habitat you have, there aint ever gonna be no quail again in numbers like those days without put and take stocking and feeding. Especially on the plateau.

In one 2 week camera run this summer on CFAZ i had 35 bobcat pics, a ton of coyotes, several foxes, and one bear. Back in the day there were fewer bobcats, zero coyotes, where I lived there was a bounty on hawks and owls, There already is tons of quail habitat on the plateau, even on Bridgestone, but very few quail, and its gonna always be that way so long as the predators outnumber the quail, which they always will.

Now of course, although I have a forestry degree from long ago in a galaxy far far away, I aint no government biologist,. But on the other hand, I never thought it would be a good idea to stock alewife, or pay farmers to plant Kudzu either.
I'm not going to post a long drawn out spill. Just because you are done with quail hunting does not mean everyone is. I will gladly support the initiative that is being put forth by TWRA. It is long overdue.

There is a lot of public hunting property in your area. Bledsoe state forest for starters. I suggest you explore.

I'm here in the east and have seen huge clear-cut areas done and while we were against it at first, they have proven beneficial.
 
More thought same subject.

This thread is about a clearcut of a hardwood forest on Bridgestone. In other words, peoples deer hunting and hiking spots in this spot are getting stripped. If the TWRA wants to expand quail habitat for their (what I consider) an experiment, they should either buy more land or or just just clear the pines south of the Caney Fork that are on WMA land and leave the hardwood be. There is also a ton of newly purchased state land in the area as Fall Creek Falls has been expanding north in the Dry Cove/ Camps Gulf area, and there is now the Dog Cove area too.

My comments on TWRA regarding hog management pertains to my disagreement regarding banning of hunting except during deer season. Different subject entirely, but between only being able to kill hogs during deer season on Bridgestone, and expansion of the no hunting areas like Fall Creek Falls, Dog Cove, Lost Creek, the Chestnut Mtn, area,, etc..., then throw in Bledsoe and the TWRA managed to create the worlds largest International Wild Hog Sanctuary with populations mainly controlled by gov.org trappers. But I digress and would hate to see my clearcut thread hijacked for wild hog mgt,
 
I'm not going to post a long drawn out spill. Just because you are done with quail hunting does not mean everyone is. I will gladly support the initiative that is being put forth by TWRA. It is long overdue.

There is a lot of public hunting property in your area. Bledsoe state forest for starters. I suggest you explore.

I'm here in the east and have seen huge clear-cut areas done and while we were against it at first, they have proven beneficial.

One of my favorite ways to hunt deer is stalk hunting and that needs big woods with not many people. Bridgestone is pretty good for that, but my favorite is Bear Hollow Mtn, especially if you drop below the bluffs off the flat you can have a great big woods hunting experience even on a weekend.

I would submit that it is reasonable to not expect quail management to be an either/or situation - in that our choices is that the TWRA whacks down one set of folks deer/hiking woods to make quail habitat for another set of folks.

Surely it is reasonable for us to expect the TWRA to provide both without taking away from any? Especially if it is possible...
 
I see nothing good about pines , Hemlocks are a different breed imo, no mismanagement from twra on hogs, blame the folks who hauled them in and turned them loose. I think that any person trespassing onto a WMA needs to pony up some $ for the right . Seen the game warden blast 3 bike riders yesterday and told them it was a $350 fine while hunting was in progress at Forks of The River. also Pody has nothing in the fight as Dekalb county is his farthest east county as far as I can see.
Senator Pody represents his constituents interests and I am one of them. Probably many others in his district use Bridgestone as well.

Agree 100% on folks using WMAs should have to pony up like the rest of us. The area is actually called The Bridgestone Firestone Centennial Wilderness WMA and gets used by a lot of hikers as well as hunters. Somehow I don't see Wilderness and Pine Savannah being the same thing. I suppose some biologist might try to say that Pine Savannah was the natural habitat for that area of the plateau, but then again, right next door is Chestnut Mtn, which is a pretty good clue of what the habitat looked like when white people first showed up.
 
The Indians kept a lot of that area burnt off so the grass lands would hold more buffalo ect , wouldn't hurt my feelings if it was managed only for birds as deer are in no danger of extinction
 
Never in my life have I seen a bounty or heard of 1 on any bird of prey in modern times
I was referring to back in the heyday of quail hunting. I recall my dad talking about a bounty being on hawks and owls, which it probably was when he was kid. I don't know whether it was still around when I was growing up in the 60s, but they certainly shot every one they saw. Can't ask him about it as he has been gone now over 40 years, but there is no denying there are a lot more hawks and owls now than there was back then, along with every other predator.

Speaking of which - I forgot to mention another common predator that back then was kill on site but is now a protected species. Snakes. I used to find them all the time in our quail pens during nesting season with little lumps where they had swallowed the eggs. Back then we killed every one we saw. Now thats illegal.

I tend not to belleve gov.org biologists when they say that quail can come back in enough numbers to overcome the massive amount of predators they face nowadays, AND support enough human hunting to justify clearing out perfectly good hardwood forests that support a ton of other species. Been around too long, seen too much of the fashionable science dejour come and go (before it was global warming it was global cooling],


Like I stated previously, want to experiment with quail habitat? There are several thousand acres of mature pine on the exact same WMA that could be cleared without bothering the hardwoods.
 

Agree 100% on folks using WMAs should have to pony up like the rest of us. The area is actually called The Bridgestone Firestone Centennial Wilderness WMA and gets used by a lot of hikers as well as hunters. Somehow I don't see Wilderness and Pine Savannah being the same thing. I suppose some biologist might try to say that Pine Savannah was the natural habitat for that area of the plateau, but then again, right next door is Chestnut Mtn, which is a pretty good clue of what the habitat looked like when white people first showed up.
Chestnut Mountain and Bridgestone (same tract historically owned by Bridgestone before the wma was donated) is a fine example of what 100 years of fire suppression will do to the plateau. The first European explorers wrote about great prairies on the plateau. It used to be home to bison, elk, and prairie grouse- none of which call a forest home.

If you'd give it a chance you'll probably find the best hunting on public land on the plateau in 5-10 years for deer and turkeys.
 
Chestnut Mountain and Bridgestone (same tract historically owned by Bridgestone before the wma was donated) is a fine example of what 100 years of fire suppression will do to the plateau. The first European explorers wrote about great prairies on the plateau. It used to be home to bison, elk, and prairie grouse- none of which call a forest home.

If you'd give it a chance you'll probably find the best hunting on public land on the plateau in 5-10 years for deer and turkeys.
Well as I understand the plan they don't plan to restock it with bison, elk or prairie grouse. Or even quail for that matter, just turn it into a broomsedge and pine (and knowing White and VB County maybe some kudzu) and let nature take its course. There may be a few more quail likely not enough to matter, but certainly fewer deer, fewer turkeys, fewer squirrels, the hogs will just move down into the Gulf,
 
It's not a "quail experiment", although there is a research project going on out there. Quail is the most studied species. They know what to do.

And it's not just about quail. Early successional habitat has declined by 90%+ and has been severely fragmented. There are hundreds of other species, some federally threatened or endangered, that will benefit from this. Fact is, early successional/grassland ecosystems are on the brink of collapse. Don't believe me? Check out the Southern Grasslands Initiative at APSU.

It will look different, but it will produce more deer, more turkeys, and bigger bucks. Andy can't we have a little corner on 1 wma managed specifically for rabbits and quail?

I take my dogs there during training season- I'm a licensed hunter, I support the conservation there, but currently can't even hunt it- when do we get a seat at the table? My training season is closed during all the deer hunts, after all.
 
It's not a "quail experiment", although there is a research project going on out there. Quail is the most studied species. They know what to do.

And it's not just about quail. Early successional habitat has declined by 90%+ and has been severely fragmented. There are hundreds of other species, some federally threatened or endangered, that will benefit from this. Fact is, early successional/grassland ecosystems are on the brink of collapse. Don't believe me? Check out the Southern Grasslands Initiative at APSU.

It look different, but it will produce more deer, more turkeys, and bigger bucks,
And where have "they" been successful in creating sustainable quail hunting without put and take stocking and supplemental feeding?

I could care less about successional grasslands. I like forests. The big woods.

Early successional woods are very healthy for deer. First you get the sun loving redbud, sumac, etc,, closely followed by tulip poplar, and the post oaks, Then come the white, red, chinkapin. and chestnut oaks, then finally the beech maple climax forest. All produce mast and browse. Broomsedge is all I ever see in these projects, and the only thing that does well in broomsedge is well, broomsedge.
 
So it's not about what's good or right for the resource, it's about your personal aesthetic...

You have 90k acres of forest on catoosa. How many 1000's at fall creek falls under state parks control that won't ever be managed? There will still be, what, at least 15k acres of forest left of Bridgestone? How about what the Corps land around Dale Hollow and Center Hill?

I like deer hunting in sagegrass fields and briar patches. I like quail. I like rabbits. I like woodcock. What makes you "righter" than me?

Why should every square inch be managed directly against the species of wildlife that TWRA is also charged with protecting, that are in steepest decline?
 

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