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Bridgestone Firestone Clearcut

So it's not about what's good or right for the resource, it's about your personal aesthetic...

You have 90k acres of forest on catoosa. How many 1000's at fall creek falls under state parks control that won't ever be managed? There will still be, what, at least 15k acres of forest left of Bridgestone? How about what the Corps land around Dale Hollow and Center Hill?

I like deer hunting in sagegrass fields and briar patches. I like quail. I like rabbits. I like woodcock. What makes you "righter" than me?

Why should every square inch be managed directly against the species of wildlife that TWRA is also charged with protecting, that are in steepest decline?
What makes me righter than you is that nobody is wanting to cut down or tear up 1000 acres of your hunting spots, which is perfectly good hardwoods, when there is an even bigger spot of mature pine across the river on the same WMA. Its one thing to develop habitat - its another to destroy existing and make it an either/or.

We don't disagree on the need for more open field hunting areas, I would love to have those too. But rather on tearing up 1000 acres of perfectly good hardwood instead of just clearcutting the pines they already have across the river or better yet buying some of the nearby timber company land that is mostly pine, if not already stripped, and doing their quail thing on that.
 
So it's not about what's good or right for the resource, it's about your personal aesthetic...

You have 90k acres of forest on catoosa. How many 1000's at fall creek falls under state parks control that won't ever be managed? There will still be, what, at least 15k acres of forest left of Bridgestone? How about what the Corps land around Dale Hollow and Center Hill?

I like deer hunting in sagegrass fields and briar patches. I like quail. I like rabbits. I like woodcock. What makes you "righter" than me?

Why should every square inch be managed directly against the species of wildlife that TWRA is also charged with protecting, that are in steepest decline?
Thank You
 
You can watch state representative discuss it with commission at last meeting and hear the responses from biologists, etc.
Thank you for posting this! Not being a social media guy the video of the meeting I referred to in my OP was not available to me. But your post caused me to search around and find it. It is very enlightening and I will post it below.

TWRA had their Assistant Wildlife Chief making the presentation, and Representative Sherrell did a great job of asking about some of the concerns I raised here. But during the presentation I kept thinking to myself "wait a minute - is that TWRA guy lying, clueless, or being intentionally deceptive- that map aint even close to right as I have seen with my OWN EYES more areas clearcut than he laid out in his presentation. His deal was, well, we are just cutting 340 acres of hardwoods around the farm, no big deal, etc. But then at the end one of the local guys got up and called him on it, Well, er, ah, its, ah 340 acres now, but yes, since you ask, our future plans are to cut all the hardwood down to the Virgin Falls parking lot. So yeah, well, ah, that would be over 1000 acres.
What about the areas you already cut - funny look, well, er, ah, that would be 2043 acres total. Meaning the whole flat east of the road and north of the gulf is being cut, and with details like that he wasn't clueless but rather intentionally deceptive. Which IMO is absolutely disgraceful (though hardly surprising) in a public employee. And the final kicker was when the guy asked him if he has 2000 acres south of the river has been managed for quail for the past 22 years and there still aint no quail how will cutting down the hardwoods north of the river help that situation No answer - next topic.

Good video, the deceptiveness is stunning if you have been following what is going on there. Rep Sherrell gets up about the 9 minute mark then the presentation continues with the local guy calling BS on them about the 51 minute mark. Whether you agree with the cut or not, you should all be outraged at the deceptive way they are going about it.

 
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If you have a small property you can do put and take birds but they found out a long time ago raising birds and turning them loose didn't work, they have no skills to feed or survive , all of these projects are slated for long term results, no over night fix on some things, I'm sure the low deer numbers didn't grow quickly and they were easy to raise and release in other areas , TWRA cant look at today and tomorrow but bet they have a 100 year plan or maybe something more modest as that's their job.
 
First a little about me to show that I'm not an activist and have respect for hunters of all types of game. I grew up in the 70's, squirrel, bird, and occasionally deer hunting. I got into dirtbiking in 78 and it became my life until I got lyme disease turkey hunting in 2012. In 2010 my uncle died of cancer. He was my father figure and mentor who taught me the ways of the outdoorsman. I deeply regret not hunting with him more but I can't go back and change that now. So while I occasionally take a 2 wheeled adventure, I mostly find myself on foot in the woods now days. I am a deer hunter first and foremost. However, I respect all forms of hunting and partake in some of them on occasion. When you take a bird dog afield, it's something everyone should experience. It's like taking your kid hunting except they already know what to do and are giddy when they see that orange collar in your hand.

I just watched the commission meeting on the subject. I've also read the 5 year plan. My take is this:

1) much of these areas on the plateau were once grasslands and early forest where the understory supplied food and cover for all wildlife, including deer and turkey. The thick canopy forests that are there today offer little in the way of food after the acorns are gone. I've had trail cam pictures of deer eating tree bark in the dead of winter. This is why deer numbers are lower where the land is mostly old forest with little to no fields or agriculture. Like west TN has more farming, fields, agriculture, deer, and bigger deer.

We travel to Eglin AFB every Feb for a ml deer hunt. The landscape is much the same as what is planned for this project except in TN there will be more grasses rather than coastal ground cover. Each area is burned every 5 years. If you think the deer are malnourished at Eglin, think again. Every deer I've killed there had more than 1/2" of fat on its back. The pic below is on Eglin. Some areas are more sparcely populated with pines. BTW, the trees a few feet tall with brown leaves are scrub oaks and yes, they produce acorns.
20170208_111043.jpg


2) in CFAZ's post above about the commission meeting, I'll quote

""""Good video, the deceptiveness is stunning if you have been following what is going on there. Rep Sherrell gets up about the 9 minute mark then the presentation continues with the local guy calling BS on them about the 51 minute mark. Whether you agree with the cut or not, you should all be outraged at the deceptive way they are going about it.""""

Rep Sherrell basically diplomatically proposed not to use the "farm" area. He did a good job.

The local guy, in my opinion, failed to call BS on the commission because there is no BS to be called out. The agency has a solid plan for this restoration project, which that BTW, only includes 1/10th of the wma. When it's all said and done, every game animal will benefit from this project. Basically, he and a group of people do not want that specific area cut period. I suspect it is because of easy access from the road for deer hunting. He even attacked quail and other bird hunters by mentioning that they should have to pay more to hunt wma's. On one hand, they don't want hikers in there but still use the "this project will destroy hiking trails" argument. Just because the trees are cut, what's to stop anyone from using the trails? Sure. I feel all users should contribute to use wma's but that is not today's subject. The way I see it, I purchase a sportsman license every year which is all-inclusive. I pay my fair share. He did a very poor job of presenting his groups proposal and grievances. There is nothing deceptive about this project. Lack of knowledge and selfishness are the only points he displayed before the commission.
 
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First a little about me I grew up in the 70's, squirrel, bird, and occasionally deer hunting. I got into dirtbiking in 78 and it became my life until I got lyme disease turkey hunting in 2012. In 2010 my uncle died of cancer. He was my father figure and mentor who taught me the ways of the outdoorsman. I deeply regret not hunting with him more but I can't go back and change that now. So while I occasionally take a 2 wheeled adventure, I mostly find myself on foot in the woods now days. I am a deer hunter first and foremost. However, I respect all forms of hunting and partake in some of them on occasion. When you take a bird dog afield, it's something everyone should experience. It's like taking your kid hunting except they already know what to do and are giddy when they see that orange collar in your hand.

I just watched the commission meeting on the subject. I've also read the 5 year plan. My take is this:

1) much of these areas on the plateau were once grasslands and early forest where the understory supplied food and cover for all wildlife, including deer and turkey. The thick canopy forests that are there today offer little in the way of food after the acorns are gone. I've had trail cam pictures of deer eating tree bark in the dead of winter. This is why deer numbers are lower where the land is mostly old forest with little to no fields or agriculture. Like west TN has more farming, fields, agriculture, deer, and bigger deer.

We travel to Eglin AFB every Feb for a ml deer hunt. The landscape is much the same as what is planned for this project except in TN there will be more grasses rather than coastal ground cover. Each area is burned every 5 years. If you think the deer are malnourished at Eglin, think again. Every deer I've killed there had more than 1/2" of fat on its back. The pic below is on Eglin. Some areas are more sparcely populated with pines. BTW, the trees a few feet tall with brown leaves are scrub oaks and yes, they produce acorns. View attachment 112968

2) in CFAZ's post above, I'll quote

""""Good video, the deceptiveness is stunning if you have been following what is going on there. Rep Sherrell gets up about the 9 minute mark then the presentation continues with the local guy calling BS on them about the 51 minute mark. Whether you agree with the cut or not, you should all be outraged at the deceptive way they are going about it.""""

Rep Sherrell basically diplomatically proposed not to use the "farm" area. He did a good job.

The local guy, in my opinion, failed to call BS on the commission because there is no BS to be called out. The agency has a solid plan for this restoration project, which that BTW, only includes 1/10th of the wma. When it's all said and done, every game animal will benefit from this project. Basically, he and a group of people do not want that specific area cut period. I suspect it is because of easy access from the road for deer hunting. He even attacked quail and other bird hunters by mentioning that they should have to pay more to hunt wma's. On one hand, they don't want hikers in there but still use the "this project will destroy hiking trails" argument. Just because the trees are cut, what's to stop anyone from using the trails? Sure. I feel all users should contribute to use wma's but that is not today's subject. The way I see it, I purchase a sportsman license every year which is all-inclusive. I pay my fair share. He did a very poor job of presenting his groups proposal and grievances. There is nothing deceptive about this project. Lack of knowledge and selfishness are the only points he displayed before the commission.
Based on your post I take it you neither hunt nor hike the area in question. So i shall enlighten you.

Bridgestone WMA is basically Scotts Gulf, with a flat tableland on either side. Scotts Gulf is the headwaters of the Upper Caney Fork River, with then feeds into Great Falls Lake, then Center Hill. The upper Caney is a primo Musky and spotted bass fishery. The Musky are native to the area (pioneers called them jackfish) - just like the walleye and smallmouth throughout the Upper Cumberland. They are ice age relics that have managed to hang on this far south due to the cold clear spring fed waters that come off the plateau and feed the Caney, Collins, and Calfkiller rivers, Cane Creek, etc...

Part and parcel of that ice age relic community is the Canadian Hemlock forests and Rhodendon thickets that are able to thrive at that relatively low elevation and southern latitude because of the unique microclimate created in Scotts Gulf. While the tableland is around 2000 ft elevation, Scotts Gulf is a giant canyon, about 1000 feet deep and maybe a mile across. The sides of the gulf are covered un mixed hardwood, mostly steep as heck, with the Hemlock community forests in the bottom,. When they tell you most of the land is being left in hardwood they are referring to Scotts Gulf. There are only 2 road entrances to the gulf from the North - Scotts Gulf road is the only one continuously open, and Ambers Den Road is gated and locked most of the year. If they cut all the hardwood off the tableland the only ground left to hunt big woods will be the Gulf itself, which in many places would be like trying to hunt the sides of the Grand Canyon. And with only 1 or 2 road access points. You cannot get down by trail due to the bluff line, The Virgin Falls trail follows the Laurel Creek hollow down, but that is protected territory and a 4mile steep hike in before you would hit the river bottom anyway.

The 1000 acre area marked for cutting is part of the hardwood plateau, and it is a very nice looking forest. It also contains several hollows feeding the gulf, and in those hollows are the Hemlock and Rhodendron forests. This area is accessed by the Upper and Lower Polly Branch Falls trails, as well as the Yellow Bluff trail, This is part of the 20 mile trails that will be affected by the clearcut, that the TWRA guys just did a low down yankee liar thing when said no trails would be affected. One reason the Hemlocks are able to survive at that elevation in the Polly Falls area is the Northeast aspect, limiting sunlight when combined with the existing hardwood forest. If you know anything about Hemlock/Rhodendron, esp at that relative low altitude, you will note they create their own self sustaining micro climate, making it noticably cooler and moister under their canopy, which allows them to regenerate themselves, If you strip out the surrounding hardwood, that fragile community balance that has existed since the last ice age will be stripped away, and its unlikely they will sustain themselves.
Although they state they will leave a hardwood boundary around the riparian areas, from what I have seen already it is not big enough to sustain the Hemlocks, Then throw in the fact that they will be doing prescribed burns to maintain the savannah, which of course will get down into the riparian areas, and thats the end of those communities. Then throw in the Hemlock Wooly Adelgid problems, and it basically game over for these communities that have existed since the ice age.

Nobody has to take my word for any of this. Just drive past the Virgin Falls trailhead, stop at the Yellow Bluff trailhead and walk to the overlook. You will see all the stripped ground plus the prescribed burn in the hardwoods. From the overlook walk downhill another 100 yds and there is a small creek crossing, with a Hemlock community on either side. You will see both burned Hemlocks plus the telltale white spots on the Hemlock branches that indicates a wooly adelgid infestation. Those areas will die off, open up, Ailanthus will sprout up all over (that invasive crap you see all over, variously called Tree of Heaven, Ghetto Palm, etc depends on where you live)

While you may have a lot of confidence in TWRA biologists and foresters I simply do not based on my experience, both from hiking all through the area and from experiences on my own land. They can sound pretty convincing if you don't know any better, but most of what they do is actually agenda driven, and the needs of hunters are not necessarily part of that agenda. Maybe 20 years ago I would have confidence in the gov,org types, but after 50 plus years of watching them do the layers of retardation thing time and again, one just doubts everything they say. (like the guy trying to convince everyone a 2000 acre clearcut was only 320 acres, lying abut the trails, and even had a fake map to back himself up)

Essentially I consider the TWRA to be like a Homeowners Association for wildlife. The people that want to get involved always do so for power, money, influence, etc... while the people that you would actually want involved don't value those things so they never get involved.

One more thing. To me this isn't about my hunting territory. I am fortunate in that I have deer in my back yard every morning and evening munching my garden or landscaping, I can stick one anytime I want, drag it into my garage, string it up, skin and butcher it, and keep the freezer full. But that is harvesting not hunting. I am also fortunate in that I have my own place to do my traditional deer hunting too. I could never hunt or hike Bridgestone again and our lifestyle would be unnaffected. This is actually about all those folks who don't have any big woods to hunt in, and get away from all the crowds. Or those folks that rarely get to experience the temperature difference walking through a Rhodendron thicket under a Hemlock canopy on a warm summer day. And of course maintaining the quality and composition of waters coming off the plateau and feeding the headwaters streams, that despite what the HOA is telling you, have been unchanged since the last ice age.
 
And one more thing. After they cut all that you are still not going to able to run your dogs or hunt birds there. It will for all intents and purposes be a quail sanctuary for your lifetime. Likely just like area across the river, a quail sanctuary with more hogs than quail, but a defacto sanctuary nonetheless. They will never allow quail hunting there until the target numbers are reached, and if that was going to ever happen it would have already as folks have been at it for decades.
 
Based on your post I take it you neither hunt nor hike the area in question. So i shall enlighten you.

Bridgestone WMA is basically Scotts Gulf, with a flat tableland on either side. Scotts Gulf is the headwaters of the Upper Caney Fork River, with then feeds into Great Falls Lake, then Center Hill. The upper Caney is a primo Musky and spotted bass fishery. The Musky are native to the area (pioneers called them jackfish) - just like the walleye and smallmouth throughout the Upper Cumberland. They are ice age relics that have managed to hang on this far south due to the cold clear spring fed waters that come off the plateau and feed the Caney, Collins, and Calfkiller rivers, Cane Creek, etc...

Part and parcel of that ice age relic community is the Canadian Hemlock forests and Rhodendon thickets that are able to thrive at that relatively low elevation and southern latitude because of the unique microclimate created in Scotts Gulf. While the tableland is around 2000 ft elevation, Scotts Gulf is a giant canyon, about 1000 feet deep and maybe a mile across. The sides of the gulf are covered un mixed hardwood, mostly steep as heck, with the Hemlock community forests in the bottom,. When they tell you most of the land is being left in hardwood they are referring to Scotts Gulf. There are only 2 road entrances to the gulf from the North - Scotts Gulf road is the only one continuously open, and Ambers Den Road is gated and locked most of the year. If they cut all the hardwood off the tableland the only ground left to hunt big woods will be the Gulf itself, which in many places would be like trying to hunt the sides of the Grand Canyon. And with only 1 or 2 road access points. You cannot get down by trail due to the bluff line, The Virgin Falls trail follows the Laurel Creek hollow down, but that is protected territory and a 4mile steep hike in before you would hit the river bottom anyway.

The 1000 acre area marked for cutting is part of the hardwood plateau, and it is a very nice looking forest. It also contains several hollows feeding the gulf, and in those hollows are the Hemlock and Rhodendron forests. This area is accessed by the Upper and Lower Polly Branch Falls trails, as well as the Yellow Bluff trail, This is part of the 20 mile trails that will be affected by the clearcut, that the TWRA guys just did a low down yankee liar thing when said no trails would be affected. One reason the Hemlocks are able to survive at that elevation in the Polly Falls area is the Northeast aspect, limiting sunlight when combined with the existing hardwood forest. If you know anything about Hemlock/Rhodendron, esp at that relative low altitude, you will note they create their own self sustaining micro climate, making it noticably cooler and moister under their canopy, which allows them to regenerate themselves, If you strip out the surrounding hardwood, that fragile community balance that has existed since the last ice age will be stripped away, and its unlikely they will sustain themselves.
Although they state they will leave a hardwood boundary around the riparian areas, from what I have seen already it is not big enough to sustain the Hemlocks, Then throw in the fact that they will be doing prescribed burns to maintain the savannah, which of course will get down into the riparian areas, and thats the end of those communities. Then throw in the Hemlock Wooly Adelgid problems, and it basically game over for these communities that have existed since the ice age.

Nobody has to take my word for any of this. Just drive past the Virgin Falls trailhead, stop at the Yellow Bluff trailhead and walk to the overlook. You will see all the stripped ground plus the prescribed burn in the hardwoods. From the overlook walk downhill another 100 yds and there is a small creek crossing, with a Hemlock community on either side. You will see both burned Hemlocks plus the telltale white spots on the Hemlock branches that indicates a wooly adelgid infestation. Those areas will die off, open up, Ailanthus will sprout up all over (that invasive crap you see all over, variously called Tree of Heaven, Ghetto Palm, etc depends on where you live)

While you may have a lot of confidence in TWRA biologists and foresters I simply do not based on my experience, both from hiking all through the area and from experiences on my own land. They can sound pretty convincing if you don't know any better, but most of what they do is actually agenda driven, and the needs of hunters are not necessarily part of that agenda. Maybe 20 years ago I would have confidence in the gov,org types, but after 50 plus years of watching them do the layers of retardation thing time and again, one just doubts everything they say. (like the guy trying to convince everyone a 2000 acre clearcut was only 320 acres, lying abut the trails, and even had a fake map to back himself up)

Essentially I consider the TWRA to be like a Homeowners Association for wildlife. The people that want to get involved always do so for power, money, influence, etc... while the people that you would actually want involved don't value those things so they never get involved.

One more thing. To me this isn't about my hunting territory. I am fortunate in that I have deer in my back yard every morning and evening munching my garden or landscaping, I can stick one anytime I want, drag it into my garage, string it up, skin and butcher it, and keep the freezer full. But that is harvesting not hunting. I am also fortunate in that I have my own place to do my traditional deer hunting too. I could never hunt or hike Bridgestone again and our lifestyle would be unnaffected. This is actually about all those folks who don't have any big woods to hunt in, and get away from all the crowds. Or those folks that rarely get to experience the temperature difference walking through a Rhodendron thicket under a Hemlock canopy on a warm summer day. And of course maintaining the quality and composition of waters coming off the plateau and feeding the headwaters streams, that despite what the HOA is telling you, have been unchanged since the last ice age.
I certainly am glad you took time to enlighten me. I'm beginning to think you're a hiker posing as a hunter in order to garner support on this forum. You assume theat we have never hunted or hiked the area but you are mistaken. Until a few years ago, I was on a lease at the Gulf so I know a lot more about the hunting, fishing, and hiking opportunities in that area than you give credit for.

I've said what I have to say. Obviously the fight for you is only beginning. Perhaps you can garner more support from an equestrian forum. By the way, talking down to and talking trash on the agency will get you nowhere with them. Perhaps you should attempt to compromise with the agency rather than dictate.
 
I certainly am glad you took time to enlighten me. I'm beginning to think you're a hiker posing as a hunter in order to garner support on this forum. You assume theat we have never hunted or hiked the area but you are mistaken. Until a few years ago, I was on a lease at the Gulf so I know a lot more about the hunting, fishing, and hiking opportunities in that area than you give credit for.

I've said what I have to say. Obviously the fight for you is only beginning. Perhaps you can garner more support from an equestrian forum. By the way, talking down to and talking trash on the agency will get you nowhere with them. Perhaps you should attempt to compromise with the agency rather than dictate.
Sorry for not giving you credit for knowing the area. Thats My bad. Its just tough for me to understand how somebody that knows how unique that area is would be so eager to see it destroyed.

I consider myself a seasonal outdoorsman. Jan/Feb will find me fishing for walleye and musky at the Rock. March will move to crappie Priest and Center Hill, also will start hiking and maybe a little turkey hunting. April/May is bass and musky on Great Falls, Center Hill plus more hiking. June maybe more bass fishing plus some stripers on Priest then trout below the dam at Center Hill. July/Aug is too hot and I cannot stand jet skis or all the floating rap concerts so its maintenance time for all my projects. Sept/October its back to hiking and scouting. Nov/Dec is all deer hunting.

As to throwing shade on the TWRA, just call em as I see em, just like old Champ might....
 
Clear-cutting some mature hardwoods would be great for the deer and turkey if everything is mature hardwoods all around. Wish they would come on over to South Cherokee wma.
That would actually be ok if they were doing it in smaller sections, then allowing it to naturally regenerate itself back to its original forest. But thats not the plan. Clear it and turn it into Pine Savannah, which they want you to believe was the natural habitat for that area. Which is actually not true, although giving them credit most of them don't actually realize it isn't because their source is actually just each other.

Hemingway once compared writers in New York City to earthworms in a mason jar, trying to draw nourishment off the sides of the jar, and each other. Gov.org biologists, climate scientists, etc.. all seem to work the same way. Somebody publishes a paper, somebody else cites it, then another, and pretty soon, well, thats all just accepted as fact - never mind whether it made any real sense to begin with. (think modern day CDC as a current example) By comparison Hemingways writings were actually interesting because he SAW, and THOUGHT, and then wrote about it - outside the box.

That Pine Savannah on the plateau thing as original habitat is at its core just speculation at best. At least, as a dominant thing. i don't think it was near as widespread as they want you to believe. To start with, (like the virus), they don't really know for sure because nobody was around then to write it down. A few explorers came through, saw some open area (where you would probably want to go for easy travel) and wrote it down. Then the settlers came in and started clearing land. What did they clear? Look at the place names; lots of white oak this, Chestnut that, Maples, Hickories, Ash, Poplar, Hemlock and yes, pines. But we DO know, because people were around to see and photograph and document it, that that the dominant tree at the time in Appalachia was Chestnut, some studies say as much as 25% of the eastern forests, and that is reflected in the place names you see.

Which leads me to my second point. The plant communities they are trying to establish no longer exist as they did then. The biggest one Chestnut - 1of every 4 trees is GONE. And in its place, to open the plant succession, a ton of invasive sun loving plants that were not around back then. Kudzu, Ailanthus, Honeysuckle, Multiflora Rose, Privet, to name just a few you see on the Plateau , that are ready to pop and spread given the first opportunity to fight the sun wars. So ok, they want to control it by burning,, because, well you know, thats what the Indians did. Does anyone really believe the Indians had their own TWRA to plan and organize prescribed burns? Or was it rather just an occasional hunting tool used in drives? Well no matter, assume they are right. Is that not then a man made tool to stop the normal succession to hardwood forest, be it Indian or Modern TWRA? Of course it is. And it has been my observation, over the years, that anytime gov.org takes it upon itself to improve nature the results rarely result in improvement. Like gov.org paying farmers to plant Kudzu. Or the Fish and Wildlife service importing Asian Carp (thats a real doozy) and then Arkansas turning them loose.

No way far better to just let nature take its course. Like most deer hunters, I know the value of clearcut and natural succession. But in a smart manner that preserves the smaller plant communities within communities. Most outdoors folks are clueless about the amazing diversity within a hardwood forest, and how everything grows where it does for a reason. Soil, aspect, elevation, latitude, moisture, shade tolerance, fire tolerance, etc. all play a huge role for why that particular tree species does well on that particular spot, even down to just the smallest differences in soil, aspect, moisture, etc,, that allows one tree to take off and steal the sun from another.. I believe this is all part of the wonders and intricacies of Gods creation, and its far better to let his natural order sort it out than rely on some gov.org expert who absorbed his trade from the side of the professional mason jar rather than rely on his own natural instinct and powers of observation.

So yeah - clearcut ok for deer management, Let Nature sort out the succession. With the caveat that if you unnaturally create large openings that didn't exist previously that you had best make sure the invasive crap doesn't make wish you had been a little more thoughtful about it.
 
I grew up hunting that since 1979. It truly could use a select cut, because it's so mature there's no browse. The ground there needs some sunlight to generate 1st and 2nd stage growth. That will explode the deer population. Far as Quail, they have been at that for 20 yrs on another section of it, and there's no quail.
 
The best thing would be to just clear cut in small patches on a rotation, leaving mature oaks here and there. Let it naturally regenerate. I'm more of a Capt Tinker Dave Beaty guy instead of Champ 😝
 
CFAZ,

I understand that you like how mature hardwoods look, and enjoy hunting them. I also completely agree that successfully managing for quail in the Southeast has gone the way of the Dodo Bird. Due to the massive increase in predators, viable wild quail populations are a thing of the past, no matter the quality of the habitat.

But I believe you are incorrect in your view of the wildlife quality of oak-pine savannahs. If you want to see some of the most productive deer habitat in the Deep South, travel to the big quail plantations of south Georgia and north Florida. I've worked on some of those properties, and the deer quality and density is phenomenal considering neighboring hardwood regions. Although prescribed fire favors grasses, and deer are not grass eaters, fire also promotes many annual herbaceous weeds, and during the summer deer are definitely "weed eaters." Oak-pine savannah produces far, far, FAR more deer food than a mature oak forest does.

Now I fully "get" any hunter who says they don't like the look and feel of hunting oak-pine savannah. I'm fine with that. But the wildlife production of that habitat outperforms mature hardwoods 10 to 1.
 
I'm no forester, but it doesn't take a forester to realize the benefit of species diversity when it comes to land management for all types of game...

The question is.. would clear cutting the land and maintaining it as a pine savanna with periodic fires produce more habitat diversity than what is currently there? I don't know the answer to that question, but I would be in favor of what is going to produce the most biodiversity habitat wise.. which by default will support more animals (both game and non game species)
 

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