Christian county Ky

[CrossVolle]

Whats combative? Im glad everyone has an opinion, i just hate seeing hunters want to snuff out the other guys because its all about antlers and being worried about what everyone else kills. People are never satisfied and always want it their way without even thinking about everyone else. The way the limits and lengths of segments work out seems great so everyone can hunt the way they see fit within limits of the law.

I don't have an issue with anything anyone kills. If it gets you excited blast it.

I think we would all agree the hunting in Tennessee is as good as it has ever been. I would never dispute that ever. I am just of the opinion that even with the strides we have made as a community with the herd it could still be even better. With the means available to everyone now for all seasons of method, the opportunities for people of all walks of life and abilities to hunt have never been greater.

 

[killingtime 41]

Things have changed that's for sure. Back in the early 90's we camp hunted always back then. Anyone of us would have loved to shoot anything that had horns on its head. Not that we still didn't want to shoot big bucks. We just never seen any to shoot. Big we were just as excited to get a 4 point. And so was everyone else around back then. I have changed the older I've gotten. And would actually like to wait at least for a mature buck. 3.5 is my definition of mature. And love just seeing deer in the woods while hunting is a good day to me.

 

[Fast Learner]

I personally don't understand a 2 month season of muzzleloader/gun season. Break it up as to where it's not just continuous! There has to be something related to antler growth and the last seasons stress! Beyond the soils and crops and rivers, Kentuckys deer are less stressed based on seasons.

 

[BSK]

I personally don't understand a 2 month season of muzzleloader/gun season. Break it up as to where it's not just continuous! There has to be something related to antler growth and the last seasons stress! Beyond the soils and crops and rivers, Kentuckys deer are less stressed based on seasons.

I'm not sure how much physical stress hunting pressure places on bucks. GPS-collar studies show bucks travel just as far under heavy hunting pressure as unhunted bucks. However, bucks under heavy hunter pressure simply take much more circuitous routes to get from Point A to Point B, in an attempt to hold to heavy cover during their travels.

What really physically stresses bucks is lots of fighting and having to participate in long, strung out breeding seasons.

 

[mike243]

I have seen 5 bucks following a yearling doe in mid-late January, have also seen bucks still cruising at the end of January, It's not the hunting that is stressing bucks but the drawn out rut. the older bucks look to loose a lot of weight by the time everything is mostly bred from what I have seen.

 

[Fast Learner]

I'm not sure how much physical stress hunting pressure places on bucks. GPS-collar studies show bucks travel just as far under heavy hunting pressure as unhunted bucks. However, bucks under heavy hunter pressure simply take much more circuitous routes to get from Point A to Point B, in an attempt to hold to heavy cover during their travels.

What really physically stresses bucks is lots of fighting and having to participate in long, strung out breeding seasons

Fair enough. It would be hard for me to see a scenario where an extended gun season would not create more stress. Along with many factors.

 

[HoytDawg]

I'm not sure how much physical stress hunting pressure places on bucks. GPS-collar studies show bucks travel just as far under heavy hunting pressure as unhunted bucks. However, bucks under heavy hunter pressure simply take much more circuitous routes to get from Point A to Point B, in an attempt to hold to heavy cover during their travels.

What really physically stresses bucks is lots of fighting and having to participate in long, strung out breeding seasons.

Assuming that having a herd with a 1:1 buck to doe ratio would shorten the breeding season vs a herd with a higher doe to buck ratio- would that be correct?

 

[mike243]

Assuming that having a herd with a 1:1 buck to doe ratio would shorten the breeding season vs a herd with a higher doe to buck ratio- would that be correct?

I would bet it would create more fighting, the more dominate bucks will breed every chance they get, might be different if everything came in heat the same day but not sure that's the case.

 

[BSK]

Assuming that having a herd with a 1:1 buck to doe ratio would shorten the breeding season vs a herd with a higher doe to buck ratio- would that be correct?

Correct. The only downside to a balanced sex ratio is the increased fighting between bucks. However, that fighting is very short-lived in a balanced sex ratio environment.

 

[BSK]

I would bet it would create more fighting, the more dominate bucks will breed every chance they get, might be different if everything came in heat the same day but not sure that's the case.

In a balanced sex ratio herd, 95% of conceptions will occur over approximately 5 weeks. That doesn't mean there won't be a few female fawns coming into heat late, or a few barren does getting chased every time they come back into estrus, but the rut - and its resulting stress - is much shorter in duration. In addition, in a balanced sex ratio herd with an advanced buck age structure, more of the rut stress is on the older bucks who can deal with it. Not to say it doesn't take its toll on them, but better for the whole population if the stress is concentrated on males who have finished their body growth. Rut stress on bucks young enough to still be growing their skeletal system has long-term ramifications.

 

[CrossVolle]

I would bet it would create more fighting, the more dominate bucks will breed every chance they get, might be different if everything came in heat the same day but not sure that's the case.

Out of a census of 8 shooters last year in Ohio, 6 were busted by thanksgiving, 3 before November 10th. They absolutely beat the crap out of each other. Ratio, as far as I can tell, about 1:1.

 

[BSK]

Out of a census of 8 shooters last year in Ohio, 6 were busted by thanksgiving, 3 before November 10th. They absolutely beat the crap out of each other. Ratio, as far as I can tell, about 1:1.

Absolutely true. More fighting between the oldest bucks. But of short duration, and not much fighting among middle-aged and younger bucks. One of those "Catch 22" situations of having a balanced sex ratio and advanced buck age structure.

 

[TheLBLman]

More fighting between the oldest bucks.

One thing I've observed many times over the years, regarding typically the oldest buck in the area:

The other old bucks won't fight him, and this oldest buck commonly has the most perfect antlers without any broken tines. Such a buck is usually my most "targeted" buck, although I seldom get him. But sure do enjoy the pursuit

Also, the oldest known buck in an area often does not "score" even close to some of the middle aged 3 1/2 to 4 1/2-yr-old bucks. But the fully mature guy does usually have more overall mass, just may be a mainframe 8-pointer with short tines. Would love to hunt an area that didn't have any high-grading, which is a near impossible scenario anywhere in TN on free-range deer.

 

[BSK]

Would love to hunt an area that didn't have any high-grading, which is a near impossible scenario anywhere in TN on free-range deer.

I've seen a couple of properties in TN that have very little high-grading. But that usually requires some specific situations, most commonly a very large property where very few bucks are killed per year, and then only fully mature bucks.

One of the ways I look for high-grading is to look at the percentage of bucks by age-class that have 6 or fewer points, and 9 or more points. When I see an increase in bucks with 6 or fewer points in the mature age-classes, that's a distinct sign-of high-grading. But on one property I've worked with for several years (no bucks under 4 1/2 harvested), Primarily ridge-and-hollow hardwoods but with a very nice agriculture bottom running through the middle (planted in corn and beans every summer), only 12% of 3 1/2 year-old bucks have 6 or fewer points, and 0% of mature bucks have 6 or fewer points. At the same time, 40% of 3 1/2 year-old bucks have 9 or more points, and a whopping 71% of mature bucks have 9 or more points.

Compare that to my property (ridge-and-hollow hardwoods but big agriculture directly adjacent) where high-grading does exist (hunters will happily kill the top-end 2 1/2s every year). On my place, 11% of 3 1/2s have 6 or fewer points and 10% of mature bucks have 6 or fewer points. In addition, 29% of 3 1/2 year-old bucks have 9 or more points, and 54% of mature bucks have 9 or more points.

The higher levels of 6 or fewer point mature bucks on my place (10% versus 0%) and the lower percentage of mature bucks with 9 or more points (54% versus 71%) shows the effects of our high-grading.

And I have data from properties with FAR WORSE high-grading than on my place, including properties with MORE 6 or fewer point mature bucks than those with 9 or more points.

 

[Ski]

Out of a census of 8 shooters last year in Ohio, 6 were busted by thanksgiving, 3 before November 10th. They absolutely beat the crap out of each other. Ratio, as far as I can tell, about 1:1.

Ohio was bad last year for broken racks. One buck on my place would have likely been close to a net booner but he lost his right side immediately after the G2. Another good 10pt was a 4pt by December, and a giant 8pt got gored in his rump and neck. My dad killed a big one that had its left beam broke off. I see bucks get beat up every year but nothing like last year.

First pic unbroken, second pic broken. Third pic was my dad's buck. Same property. I had probably half dozen full grown bucks with broken tines and beams. Big boys like that breaking bone that severely requires some force!

 

[CrossVolle]

Ohio was bad last year for broken racks. One buck on my place would have likely been close to a net booner but he lost his right side immediately after the G2. Another good 10pt was a 4pt by December, and a giant 8pt got gored in his rump and neck. My dad killed a big one that had its left beam broke off. I see bucks get beat up every year but nothing like last year.

First pic unbroken, second pic broken. Third pic was my dad's buck. Same property. I had probably half dozen full grown bucks with broken tines and beams. Big boys like that breaking bone that severely requires some force!

Yes. It was a weird year. Just carnage. We aren't that far apart either but far enough away to make you wonder.

 

[TheLBLman]

One of the ways I look for high-grading is to look at the percentage of bucks by age-class that have 6 or fewer points, and 9 or more points.

This is an excellent method for trend measuring antler high-grading.

But would like to point out hunters' antler high-grading is not just about the number of mainframe tines. It is also about overall mass.

Above average anything with the antlers on a young buck typically means that buck is much more likely to be killed instead of given a pass. A common example is a 2 1/2 to 3 1/2-yr-old with an outside spread over 20" --- he's likely killed even if he has only 6 mainframe tines at 2 1/2, while he might have 8 or 9 mainframe tines by 4 1/2.

 

[Ski]

This is an excellent method for trend measuring antler high-grading.

But would like to point out hunters' antler high-grading is not just about the number of mainframe tines. It is also about overall mass.

Above average anything with the antlers on a young buck typically means that buck is much more likely to be killed instead of given a pass. A common example is a 2 1/2 to 3 1/2-yr-old with an outside spread over 20" --- he's likely killed even if he has only 6 mainframe tines at 2 1/2, while he might have 8 or 9 mainframe tines by 4 1/2.

How old you reckon this buck is? High grade bait for sure. He's gona get himself in big trouble wearing his daddy's hat because someone is gona mistake him for his daddy.

 

[TheLBLman]

How old you reckon this buck is?

Really hard to accurately guess in early August.
2 1/2 or older would be my best guess.

 

[knightrider]

How old you reckon this buck is? High grade bait for sure. He's gona get himself in big trouble wearing his daddy's hat because someone is gona mistake him for his daddy.

Im leaning 2 possible 3, man he would be a dandy in couple more