Corn in 2023?

[DoubleRidge]

But with this said and I agree some feed deer and other animals year round then what difference would it be ? Plus the point I was responding to is that a food plot is not natural !!

So the question is: what's the difference between year-round feeding of corn at a bait station verses a year-round food plot?

Corn in a high humidity climate can develop aflatoxin which is toxic to a variety of wildlife...Food plots don't have this issue.

Bait stations concentrate deer and certain style feeders even promote the sharing of saliva which can spread disease quickly....with Food plots this is much less likely to occur.

Corn feeders are dependent on a human to fill them on a consistent schedule...Food plots can feed a variety of wildlife for months with no human intrusion or interaction.

Corn feeders do not provide fawning or turkey nesting cover.... depending on what variety of seed is planted Food plots can provide excellent cover for wildlife in the spring and summer.

Food plots can be great for pollinators and a variety of non-game wildlife....corn feeder...not so much.

And the list goes on....true nutritional value, tons generated per acre, etc.

As for a food plot not being "natural"....deer eating green forage growing from the earth seems much more natural than yellow corn raining down from a plastic barrel.....but that's just an opinion.

 

[BSK]

But with this said and I agree some feed deer and other animals year round then what difference would it be ? Plus the point I was responding to is that a food plot is not natural !!

Where do you draw the line on "natural?" Is cutting timber and producing regrowth "natural?" Man did it. Is everything Man did "unnatural?" I'm seriously asking. Man has been altering the habitat for his benefit (including improving hunting) for 10,000 years in the U.S. Man has been planting agriculture for at least 1,000 years (and probably double that).

 

[Falconi]

But with this said and I agree some feed deer and other animals year round then what difference would it be ? Plus the point I was responding to is that a food plot is not natural !!

Is a farmer's corn or soybean field natural?

 

[Specializedjon]

OP: Do you mean a pile of corn or planted/cut corn?

If you mean a pile of corn, I personally don't. I don't want an asterisk next to any of my mounts.

To each his own.

 

[agelessssone]

Amen brother. Most now which I'm not saying it's wrong but hunting in a shooting house looking over a food plot IMO is not much hunting .

I agree with the shooting house and food plot doesn't seem like "hunting" to me.
Never have hunted out of a house/blind nor over a food plot.
Closest thing to a food plot hunt was a stand of oak trees with acorns falling all around me.
Hell, I'm 75 and still hunt off of a hangon treestand.
I got to admit, it's getting tougher to put up the climbing sticks and hang that stand by myself but the funnel I hunt is very productive so I'll keep doing it as long as the old couple will let me.
Just hope they don't decide to sell!!

 

[tellico4x4]

I guess I'm old school, but isn't deer hunting supposed to be hard? When I grew up, you started hunting the easier, high-action species first. Then you worked your way up the difficulty/skill/patience ladder of species. At the top of the ladder were deer. They took the most skill, knowledge and patience to successfully kill. Again, call me old-school, but I thought the point of hunting - and deer hunting in particular - was all about learning the woodsmanship skills to be regularly successful. And I don't see any difference between meat hunting and trophy hunting.

Exactly, 4-5 years ago I started hunting particular bucks just to take the difficulty level up another notch. While I may not kill one of them but every 2-3 years, it's much more satisfying when I do. Usually pass on several 4+ yr old bucks each year in search of one of them, but that's satisfying in itself. Kinda like the feeling of "I could have but didn't".
This year, killed one of my target bucks early in season, but wound up not being as good as I thought he was... happens.

 

[Buzzard Breath]

I haven't read through 5 pages of replies, so excuse me if this has been mentioned many times already. I've gotten to where I enjoy all the things leading up to the hunting almost more than the hunting itself. The scouting, running trail cams, backyard bow shoots, moving stands, etc. If I was to just go out and sit over bait, it would greatly diminish my enjoyment of the season.

 

[kentuckylakebuck1]

Where do you draw the line on "natural?" Is cutting timber and producing regrowth "natural?" Man did it. Is everything Man did "unnatural?" I'm seriously asking. Man has been altering the habitat for his benefit (including improving hunting) for 10,000 years in the U.S. Man has been planting agriculture for at least 1,000 years (and probably double that).

then whats the problem with baiting or feeding?

 

[Ski]

I started hunting particular bucks just to take the difficulty level up another notch. While I may not kill one of them but every 2-3 years, it's much more satisfying when I do.

It's indescribably more satisfying. Like no other combination of emotions I've ever felt in any other aspect of life. I killed my fifth one this year. Took three years and I only ever saw him twice in person. People would probably think I'm nuts for passing some of the bucks I pass because I'm singly focused on one specific buck. But anybody who's ever done it knows what it feels like and understands. It used to be an alien concept to me. I wondered how or why anybody would hunt like that. Now I can't imagine hunting any other way.

I've gotten to where I enjoy all the things leading up to the hunting almost more than the hunting itself. The scouting, running trail cams, backyard bow shoots, moving stands, etc. If I was to just go out and sit over bait, it would greatly diminish my enjoyment of the season.

That's me. It's a year round endeavor and the actual hunt honestly is the most boring part until the last 30 seconds before the kill.

then whats the problem with baiting or feeding?

I'm not BSK but I'll give you my thoughts. My ONLY problem with somebody else baiting is that it's illegal, meaning only cheating criminals are doing it while the rest of us law abiding hunters suffer to the criminals' unfair advantage. If it were a level playing field where we were all allowed to do it then I would have no problem with it. Baiting no question alters deer behavior by attracting them, or else nobody would waste money on corn. Drawing those deer in are pulling them away from my place, giving the cheater an advantage that I cannot overcome without also becoming a cheater. That's a problem.

 

[Falconi]

Hell, I'm 75 and still hunt off of a hangon treestand.

Impressive!

 

[backyardtndeer]

My ONLY problem with somebody else baiting is that it's illegal, meaning only cheating criminals are doing it while the rest of us law abiding hunters suffer to the criminals' unfair advantage. If it were a level playing field where we were all allowed to do it then I would have no problem with it. Baiting no question alters deer behavior by attracting them, or else nobody would waste money on corn. Drawing those deer in are pulling them away from my place, giving the cheater an advantage that I cannot overcome without also becoming a cheater. That's a problem.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Bone Collector]

Considering how fast it flies off the pallets at CO-OP, TSC, and Wal-Mart, I'd have to guess it's a tangible percentage.

This^^^ you forgot Academy. Been saying for years that it is very telling the amount of corn that disappears right before ML opener. I see 4-5 pallets every year around start of bow season. It starts to dwindles some then right before ML opener.... Poof.

 

[gatodoc]

The difference is aflatoxin on the corn. It comes from mold. Corn gets tested for it before it can be used for humans or livestock, and if it fails it becomes deer corn. Food plots are green growing alive. I'm not really sure why some states allow it. Seems to contradict the recommendations of biologists.

I think some states like bama started allowing it cause they couldn't stop it and get $ for extra liscense. I had to pay an extra $50.00 this year to get a baiting permit on my AL lease cause there's feeders on every food plot. I don't think it brings in mature deer but lots of does and young bucks. I hunt the woods around the fields especially during the rut to catch bucks scent checking the fields.

 

[Bone Collector]

How is a lush food plot a natural environment ? Not trying to start an argument but food plots are on most leases now and really effective but not natural. If the data says these corn piles or feeders are killing our deer plus our turkeys why are more and more states bordering us allowing it.

1. Food plots are not natural.
2. Corn doesn't kill animals. If it did to your point it wouldn't be legal anywhere and they wouldn't allow people to put it in their backyard.

We do this every year. I am not writing a big post so others can try to debate that food plots are just another form of baiting (I plant them too).
It is highly likely that corn will be legal in the next 5 years, probably sooner.

 

[Webfeet15]

It's impossible for the small amount of game wardens we have to enforce no baiting in an amount that's going to make a difference. I think a fee for a permit to bait, like Alabama, and use the revenue to hire more game wardens to enforce the laws that are more easily enforced if they had the numbers to do so such as spot lighting, taking over limits, etc. would be beneficial. Even could use the money for wma's or whatever else. Not arguing for or against baiting just think that it's a losing battle as it is right now.

 

[DoubleRidge]

1. Food plots are not natural.
2. Corn doesn't kill animals. If it did to your point it wouldn't be legal anywhere and they wouldn't allow people to put it in their backyard.

We do this every year. I am not writing a big post so others can try to debate that food plots are just another form of baiting (I plant them too).
It is highly likely that corn will be legal in the next 5 years, probably sooner.

I don't want to argue either but I do enjoy discussing wildlife and habitat management...best practices...what works and what doesn't.

As for food plots not being "natural"...ok, they are planted by man and they don't occur naturally...just like timber stand improvements, big Ag, etc....so the conversation should shift to what truly benefits wildlife? Or what's healthier? A plant grown from the soil or a core pile?

I also won't argue with MSU deer lab program. They have performed so many studies on whitetail deer and published multiple articles on the topic and they say:

"Depending on the level of aflatoxin and how much is eaten, large mammals such as white-tailed deer can experience weight loss, anemia and reproductive problems and It can kill smaller animals and birds".

Then many land managers on TnDeer discuss the desire to see the quail return ....So in Texas several studies have been done on the effects of aflatoxin on quail

What they found was that levels of aflatoxin as low as 25 ppb had a negative health effect but death did not occur until doses exceeded 500 ppb, but acute low doses caused a reduction in immune system function in birds which can lead to other health related issues.

Documented studies show the same thing for turkey poults and various song birds....less healthy birds and death in higher doses.

So...does wildlife eat bagged deer corn and fall over dead? No...but aflatoxin can and does kill animals ...and all corn doesn't have or develop aflatoxin...But even when death doesn't occur the documented negative health effects should be enough to give land managers pause.

And those that are "pro corn baiting" always point to other states...but there are so many variables in that conversation... humidity, feeder type, certified or non certified feed, etc....and a simple question is....how much healthier or better could the deer, turkey and other birds be if baiting were not allowed in those areas?

I don't expect to change anyone's mind but I do hope to give land and habitat managers information to think about when they are trying to do what's best for wildlife.

 

[Talome13]

One is an attractant, and one is a supplement. It's as simple as that in my eyes.

 

[gobblegrunt]

I could honestly care less what others do on their property.

 

[13pt]

Had to dig back through my plethora of pictures to find this one. I have very little experience hunting over corn, and only in KY and Texas. This picture was taken several years back on a place in Christian County (one of the hottest trophy buck counties in KY). Me and another guy was the first two to hunt this particular property that bow season, so the deer were completely at ease. As you can see this stand has plenty of cover and up high and in what appears to be in an excellent traffic zone (especially if you could the lay of the land around it). And you can see the corn pile to my left, to which he did use corn on the cob at least. I hunted that spot for two days and seen 65 does (which no doubt many were the same) and NOT one single buck came to that corn; however, I seen several bucks out in that cut agricultural field, but they would just look at the does eating corn and move on. After two days of that crap, I said, how can I hunt the other end of the ag field where I'm seeing all the bucks. He said there's a stand up on the far end but it's not baited. I said, for the love of God put me in they stand. The next two days I seen almost as many bucks as does including a heck of a shooter that was just out of bow range! Point is, for those who seem to say hunting over corn is easy and gives an unfair advantage, I call BS. Yeah, if you're just hunting meat I can see that, but if you're buck hunting anything older the 1.5, it sure seems to be the least successful of any method you could use. And try to get to your stand, or leave it, without spooking every deer in a 200 yd radius. Now, the guy hunting 200-300 yds from your corn pile, he's the one that's gonna get your buck traffic!

 

[Bone Collector]

As for food plots not being "natural"...ok, they are planted by man and they don't occur naturally...just like timber stand improvements, big Ag, etc....so the conversation should shift to what truly benefits wildlife? Or what's healthier? A plant grown from the soil or a core pile?

I also won't argue with MSU deer lab program. They have performed so many studies on whitetail deer and published multiple articles on the topic and they say:

"Depending on the level of aflatoxin and how much is eaten, large mammals such as white-tailed deer can experience weight loss, anemia and reproductive problems and It can kill smaller animals and birds".

Then many land managers on TnDeer discuss the desire to see the quail return ....So in Texas several studies have been done on the effects of aflatoxin on quail

What they found was that levels of aflatoxin as low as 25 ppb had a negative health effect but death did not occur until doses exceeded 500 ppb, but acute low doses caused a reduction in immune system function in birds which can lead to other health related issues.

Documented studies show the same thing for turkey poults and various song birds....less healthy birds and death in higher doses.

So...does wildlife eat bagged deer corn and fall over dead? No...but aflatoxin can and does kill animals ...and all corn doesn't have or develop aflatoxin...But even when death doesn't occur the documented negative health effects should be enough to give land managers pause.

And those that are "pro corn baiting" always point to other states...but there are so many variables in that conversation... humidity, feeder type, certified or non certified feed, etc....and a simple question is....how much healthier or better could the deer, turkey and other birds be if baiting were not allowed in those areas?

I don't expect to change anyone's mind but I do hope to give land and habitat managers information to think about when they are trying to do what's best for wildlife.

I agree with everything you said, but we have to ask other questions (to be fair) if we look at your questions.

As for food plots not being "natural"...ok, they are planted by man and they don't occur naturally...just like timber stand improvements, big Ag, etc....so the conversation should shift to what truly benefits wildlife? Or what's healthier? A plant grown from the soil or a core pile?

Sure it should, and we know that the answer is a plant from the ground, but if we know that corn is not healthy or less healthy, then we need to stop it from being put out period. If we allow people to have it in their backyard it is no different than in the woods. Also the other issue (whether healthier or not) is people plant food plots to shoot deer on... so maybe it is for herd health too, but ultimately that is where you set up to shoot deer, so you are using them (I am too) to shoot deer. It may be the healthier option, but without stopping it all together, people that don't have equipment, or money for seed and fertilizer, etc. should be able to put it out until they say it is bad and we are going to cease the whole practice.
I would use the same logic of making it illegal for everyone and all purposes to comment on your MSU study. If we know it is bad and the wildlife is the focus, then stop it all together. However, it can't be bad for me and not for thee though when it comes to hunters and nonhunters.