Decoys

[Goodtimekiller]

How do you feel about calls?

Calls take time to master, and some will never take the time to master them, unlike a decoy that takes 5 seconds to set up and deer hunt over. Calls definitely tip the odds in a hunters favor during SOME of the spring mating season, but by far, they are not a 100% death sentence to the majority of mature gobblers like strutting decoys are. I can assure you, and anyone else that wants to listen, that the turkey population will NEVER be in jeopardy because of hunters, like you and I, just using calls. Simply stated, calls are just not "instantly" effective like a decoy, especially on the dominant 3+ year old birds, that do most of the breeding.

Sure, calls take time to master, but i can teach someone to call good enough to kill a turkey in 15 minutes on a slate and box call. In no way are strutting decoys 100% death, they may be high but no way 100%. I would say decoys in general are in no way that hight. I saw a post this morning of a guy that called in a dominant bird with 5 yelps. Calls can be more effective than decoys in general if you use them correctly. Many times people use calls to draw attention to the decoys or locate a bird to use decoys, even solely strutter decoys. So if you are talking about the numbers of turkeys killed, you have to say calls give them hunter a huge advantage over not having them. I bet most people on here, given the choice, would pick taking calls over decoys to kill turkeys.


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[Andy S.]

The problem that Andy and Setterman are talking about is how effective decoys are at killing turkeys (specifically mature breeders) that basically requires no skill. Anyone can put a decoy in the ground and kill turkeys now, which is very different than calling one to you staying still be in the right place at the right time etc etc. This is causing a reduction of effective breeding going on which reduces overall population health.

You nailed it. My issue is really not the use of decoys per se, or other hunter's success, it is killing/removing these mature gobblers VERY EARLY in the season that otherwise would most likely never be killed by ANY OF US, ever! That has to have detrimental impacts to the local population when this recurring early removal of dominant male turkeys continues over a decade, if not longer, all because of strutter decoys. There are A LOT of great turkey hunters out there, but I can promise you NONE of them can consistently win a battle in the woods/fields/pastures against a mature gobbler with his harem of hens without a crutch such as a strutter or fan. If you do not agree, you truly do not understand mature gobblers and their springtime breeding dynamics.

 

[Setterman]

The problem that Andy and Setterman are talking about is how effective decoys are at killing turkeys (specifically mature breeders) that basically requires no skill. Anyone can put a decoy in the ground and kill turkeys now, which is very different than calling one to you staying still be in the right place at the right time etc etc. This is causing a reduction of effective breeding going on which reduces overall population health.

You nailed it. My issue is really not the use of decoys per se, or other hunter's success, it is killing/removing these mature gobblers VERY EARLY in the season that otherwise would most likely never be killed by ANY OF US, ever! That has to have detrimental impacts to the local population when this recurring early removal of dominant male turkeys continues over a decade, if not longer, all because of strutter decoys. There are A LOT of great turkey hunters out there, but I can promise you NONE of them can consistently win a battle in the woods/fields/pastures against a mature gobbler with his harem of hens without a crutch such as a strutter or fan. If you do not agree, you truly do not understand mature gobblers and their springtime breeding dynamics.

Exactly.

And calls aren't nearly as sure a thing as a Chinese turkey. Although some could argue otherwise if you saw my spur ropes :rotf:

 

[Andy S.]

Sure, calls take time to master, but i can teach someone to call good enough to kill a turkey in 15 minutes on a slate and box call.

Kudos to you, but that is only true if they want to learn and be passionate about it, and are willing to "put in the time", where most are not.

In no way are strutting decoys 100% death, they may be high but no way 100%.

Maybe not 100%, but they are very near it with mature gobblers, especially ones courting 10-15 hens early season.

I saw a post this morning of a guy that called in a dominant bird with 5 yelps.

It happens, but it is not the norm, especially early season when their are hens readily avaialble up until middle of the day.

Calls can be more effective than decoys in general if you use them correctly.

Maybe, but most out there do not use them correctly, thus in the turkey's favor, and the sustainability of the local flock.

Many times people use calls to draw attention to the decoys or locate a bird to use decoys, even solely strutter decoys. So if you are talking about the numbers of turkeys killed, you have to say calls give them hunter a huge advantage over not having them.

True, decoys definitely coerce turkeys to come look at "calling" they typically would walk away from.

I bet most people on here, given the choice, would pick taking calls over decoys to kill turkeys.

I hope you are correct, but I believe calling a turkey to the gun is becoming a thing of the past, especially in early season, and in open areas (fields, pastures, etc). You and I both know the new "in thing" is instant gratification and recognition, and old school turkey hunting that takes work, time, preparation, scouting, setup, patience, awareness, decision making skills, and sealing the deal at the right second is the farthest thing away from instant gratification that drives the world we live in.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

For what it is worth, I am personally not a fan of them, at all. I think they account for 5-7k mature gobblers killed annually, if not more, that would survive without the use of visual decoys. Without decoys, these mature gobblers would survive the entire season to continually breed the hens if need be, and survive to see another season, and gobble from the roost the next year, basically having some carryover gobbling turkeys if you will.

The single most thing I dislike about decoys is how deadly they are "in open areas" on the "most mature birds" (> 1.25" spurs) early season before all of the hens are bred. These are the mature birds that most hunters could NOT kill otherwise, and these are the mature male birds the entire local flock needs the most to ensure all of the hens are bred throughout June. When they are shot the first weekend over a strutter decoy or in front of a fan, there's not much they can do to help us grow the flock.

My .02

How do you feel about calls?



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I may be misunderstanding your point about calls, but there is a vast difference in effectiveness of decoys vs calls. I think even Setterman uses calls! The problem that Andy and Setterman are talking about is how effective decoys are at killing turkeys (specifically mature breeders) that basically requires no skill. Anyone can put a decoy in the ground and kill turkeys now, which is very different than calling one to you staying still be in the right place at the right time etc etc. This is causing a reduction of effective breeding going on which reduces overall population health.

I think you are grossly exaggerating the ease of killing turkeys with a decoy. I think there are thousands of people that would disagree with your statement that anyone can do it. And to be effective you still have to know where to put it and be still. Decoys don't just make old birds plain stupid. I also think your statement about effective breeding is unfounded. Do you have any information anywhere that supports that? Subordinate birds will step in and become dominant and breed when a dominant bird is gone. Turkeys don't know if a bird is gone because a hunter killed it or a coyote or a truck. Hens are going to seek out a male to breed even if they have to travel long distances. But my main point is calls give you just as much of an advantage as decoys, depending on the circumstance. I say we outlaw calls. Predators kill more turkeys than people every year, lets outlaw them.


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[poorhunter]

Then, like Andy said, you don't understand turkeys or turkey biology. Yes, any male gobbler CAN breed, that's why I qualified my statement with "effective" breeding.

Are you seriously saying that calling is more effective than decoys? My hats off to you and your calling ability :tu:

 

[Boll Weevil]

I think you are grossly exaggerating the ease of killing turkeys with a decoy. I think there are thousands of people that would disagree with your statement that anyone can do it. And to be effective you still have to know where to put it and be still. Decoys don't just make old birds plain stupid. I also think your statement about effective breeding is unfounded. Do you have any information anywhere that supports that? Subordinate birds will step in and become dominant and breed when a dominant bird is gone. Turkeys don't know if a bird is gone because a hunter killed it or a coyote or a truck. Hens are going to seek out a male to breed even if they have to travel long distances. But my main point is calls give you just as much of an advantage as decoys, depending on the circumstance. I say we outlaw calls. Predators kill more turkeys than people every year, lets outlaw them.

I respectfully disagree with nearly every point you just offered except: 1) predators kill more turkeys than people every year and 2) the word grossly. I know folks that deploy nothing more than a popup blind and a few decoys in a field and kill birds. One such fellow has a call but I honestly don't know if he even knows how to run it.

 

[Andy S.]

I also think your statement about effective breeding is unfounded. Do you have any information anywhere that supports that?

Not sure I understand this question, please expound.

Subordinate birds will step in and become dominant and breed when a dominant bird is gone.

If there are any left. These are the easiest birds to kill with just a call, especially early season before all the harassing begins. Most solid turkey hunters have a chance with these satellite turkeys with just a call in hand, as long as the dominant gobbler in the area is locked down with hens. These can be some of the funnest turkeys to call to the gun, and kill, but rarely do they have spurs over 7/8" first two weeks of season.

Predators kill more turkeys than people every year, lets outlaw them.

Do you have any information anywhere that supports that?

How do you feel about decoys? Do you use them regularly?

 

[gobblesandgrunts]

This year I have killed two birds in the woods that came straight to my decoy. It's whatever triggers the bird at the time. One day it could be decoys and the next calling. And one of the birds was a really old bird


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[Goodtimekiller]

I think you are grossly exaggerating the ease of killing turkeys with a decoy. I think there are thousands of people that would disagree with your statement that anyone can do it. And to be effective you still have to know where to put it and be still. Decoys don't just make old birds plain stupid. I also think your statement about effective breeding is unfounded. Do you have any information anywhere that supports that? Subordinate birds will step in and become dominant and breed when a dominant bird is gone. Turkeys don't know if a bird is gone because a hunter killed it or a coyote or a truck. Hens are going to seek out a male to breed even if they have to travel long distances. But my main point is calls give you just as much of an advantage as decoys, depending on the circumstance. I say we outlaw calls. Predators kill more turkeys than people every year, lets outlaw them.

I respectfully disagree with nearly every point you just offered except: 1) predators kill more turkeys than people every year and 2) the word grossly. I know folks that deploy nothing more than a popup blind and a few decoys in a field and kill birds. One such fellow has a call but I honestly don't know if he even knows how to run it.

You can disagree all you like but predators hunt 365 days a year and destroy nests constantly during the entire nesting season. Facts are facts on that issue.


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[Goodtimekiller]

Then, like Andy said, you don't understand turkeys or turkey biology. Yes, any male gobbler CAN breed, that's why I qualified my statement with "effective" breeding.

Are you seriously saying that calling is more effective than decoys? My hats off to you and your calling ability :tu:

I study more turkey biology than most. A subordinate turkey can effectively breed a hen. Maybe a good lesson on the birds and the bees us in order, pun intended.

If you would read the original post that basically said decoys give us an unfair advantage you would know my original question was to say calls give us an unfair advantage as well. It's pretty simple to see if you would think about it. How many turkeys would you kill if you couldn't locate a turkey or play the seductive hen. Far fewer.

My calling is average at best and I call in a ton of turkeys. I called in my first turkey 14 years ago with a diaphragm and i sounded more like a whistling duck, the longbeard came in but i set the decoys out wrong and he wouldn't commit. Luckily he was still in shotgun range. So, my horrible calling called a longbeard in and he balked at the decoys. He was strutting and gobbling with several hens.

You guys are making turkey hunting out to be some idealistic fantasy.


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[Goodtimekiller]

This year I have killed two birds in the woods that came straight to my decoy. It's whatever triggers the bird at the time. One day it could be decoys and the next calling. And one of the birds was a really old bird


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Very true


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[REN]

actually I would prob kill more if I couldnt do the "call" game. I could just go where they roost and wait or set up in areas I know for a fact they go after fly down. Ambushing them as well, I would without question kill more if I hunted them that way but that is not fun or game in that IMO. I mean I literally walked up on a group of 11 jakes and 3 toms this morning at 30yds and they stood there for a bit trying to figure out what I was. The sun was directly behind me and they just couldnt make me out. Could have easily shot one of the toms if I wanted to hunt that way

 

[Goodtimekiller]

I also think your statement about effective breeding is unfounded. Do you have any information anywhere that supports that?

Not sure I understand this question, please expound.

Subordinate birds will step in and become dominant and breed when a dominant bird is gone.

If there are any left. These are the easiest birds to kill with just a call, especially early season before all the harassing begins. Most solid turkey hunters have a chance with these satellite turkeys with just a call in hand, as long as the dominant gobbler in the area is locked down with hens. These can be some of the funnest turkeys to call to the gun, and kill, but rarely do they have spurs over 7/8" first two weeks of season.

Predators kill more turkeys than people every year, lets outlaw them.

Do you have any information anywhere that supports that?

How do you feel about decoys? Do you use them regularly?

You say if we kill a dominant bird then the hens will not be effectively bred. Are you saying subordinate birds can't breed hens effectively? Or there is only one tom a hen will allow to breed her?

For years i've heard so many people complain that there were too many hens that they birds weren't coming to calls now it's that birds are so easy to kill because dominant bird has all the hens and he won't cone to a call. How many dominant birds can you have on 300 acres? Several. And if average hunters are killing these easy to kill birds they are not killing the dominant bird, so he can breed. If other hunters are killing the dominant bird then the subordinates will breed the hens. HENS SEEK OUT TOMS.

If you do not know that predators kill more turkeys than humans, there is no reason to discuss turkeys with you and yes there is research and proof.


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[ruger7mag]

Judging by social media, I think it's safe to say that AT LEAST 50% of the toms taken are over decoys. I personally know people who kill the piss out of them with their blinds and decoys. These same people would struggle to kill a bird much less two every year.
Like someone else said, a pile of big hooks have been posted on social media this year. I'd be willing to bet that a very large percentage of those birds were reaped or decoyed.

 

[Andy S.]

If you do not know that predators kill more turkeys than humans, there is no reason to discuss turkeys with you and yes there is research and proof.

Adult turkeys, like we are discussing? I have seen/read the research and data on poults in the southeast (50-70% mortality rate first two weeks), but never read a scientific peer reviewed article that substantiated how lethal predators were on adult turkeys. You got a link?

 

[Andy S.]

How do you feel about decoys? Do you use them regularly?

 

[Goodtimekiller]

Judging by social media, I think it's safe to say that AT LEAST 50% of the toms taken are over decoys. I personally know people who kill the piss out of them with their blinds and decoys. These same people would struggle to kill a bird much less two every year.
Like someone else said, a pile of big hooks have been posted on social media this year. I'd be willing to bet that a very large percentage of those birds were reaped or decoyed.

I would say at least 50% of turkeys are killed using some type of call


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[Andy S.]

Judging by social media, I think it's safe to say that AT LEAST 50% of the toms taken are over decoys.

At least that much, and that percentage is a lot higher for birds that are killed outside of a woods environment (fields, pastures, open ground, etc). I am not bashing it, but it is what it is.

I personally know people who kill the piss out of them with their blinds and decoys. These same people would struggle to kill a bird much less two every year.

We all know a handful that role like this, and some of us know more.

Like someone else said, a pile of big hooks have been posted on social media this year. I'd be willing to bet that a very large percentage of those birds were reaped or decoyed.

Again, this is factual, and it is what it is, whether one likes it, agrees with it, or disagrees with it. Most of the recent pics I have seen confirm this, the strutter is clearly seen in the kill pic.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

How do you feel about decoys? Do you use them regularly?

I do not use them regularly, i use them occasionally, almost always have one in my vest and always have some in my truck in case i think i may need to put some out. I have had as many toms leave or skirt decoys as i have commit to them. There is no doubt full strut decoys can be effective. Where i hunted in nebraska, that's the only way they hunted, there population is fine. But my original post was to say calls give us just as much advantage over turkeys as decoys. The reason i wanted to make that statement was to ask why people are so quick to jump on outlawing decoys but nothing is ever said about calls. There was actually a thread earlier asking about decoy techniques and most people said they didn't use them because the didn't work or werent effective. I like calls and decoys, but if someone is going to suggest i hunt without decoys i suggest they hunt without calls. I use calls 100% of the time, decoys maybe 50%.


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