Got to say something-- Chokes/Loads

[tnturkey30]

Ok.....

 

[muddyboots]

wow, what kind of pattern do you even get at 80yds...not being sarcastic i honestly just want to see what that even looks like. I have never shot mine at paper past 40 so i cant even image what paper would look like at double that.

Its not good at 80. From 70 to 80 it really falls apart. 70 is the outer limits.

 

[Andy S.]

Its not good at 80. From 70 to 80 it really falls apart. 70 is the outer limits.

I think I asked you this last year but I cannot remember. What gun/choke/shell combination are you using for these 70 yard shots? Just wondering. Also, post up some of your 60, 70 and 80 yard targets if you ever get around to it. It would be interesting to see them.

 

[REN]

yeah i cant phantom what that pattern would look like to be lethal at 70. If it is putting 100 in a 10" on paper at 70 what in the world does it look like at 10-15yds?

 

[TheLBLman]

If it is putting 100 in a 10" on paper at 70 what in the world does it look like at 10-15yds?

And therein lies the problem.

If MOST of your shots are expected to be under 35 yards, is it possible a rifle-like pattern (under 35 yards) might do more harm than good?

In many of my set-ups, it's not even likely a turkey will be seen over 35 yards away, such as commonly sitting up on a ridgetop, whereas the instant the turkey pops over the horizon, he's under 35 yards. Commonly under 25, when first seen.

 

[muddyboots]

It looks like a baseball at twenty yards. Thats why i have a scope. Its not for everyone. Andy i have a remington sps-t super mag with a b square mount and a leupold 1.75 x 6 power scope. I have a rhino .660 choke and i keep my barrel polished and i shoot nitro 4 x 5 x 7 hevishot with 2 7/16 ounces load. Its not for everyone but i love it. Only pics i have of targets are a 40 yarder and i posted it last year and a few people didnt believe me so i dont post them anymore.

 

[Roost 1]

My experience with the Nitro triplex load is that is does pattern well but I do not like its performance on turkeys at 50yds wouldnt even consider 70yd...because of this when we did shoot Nitro we used the straight #5 Hevi-shot loads. They are devastating a longer distances but do not look quite as good on paper...in my opinion too many #7s in that triplex load but it sure looks good on paper.

 

[REN]

If it is putting 100 in a 10" on paper at 70 what in the world does it look like at 10-15yds?

And therein lies the problem.

If MOST of your shots are expected to be under 35 yards, is it possible a rifle-like pattern (under 35 yards) might do more harm than good?

In many of my set-ups, it's not even likely a turkey will be seen over 35 yards away, such as commonly sitting up on a ridgetop, whereas the instant the turkey pops over the horizon, he's under 35 yards. Commonly under 25, when first seen.

right but then again it comes back to pattern your gun so you know. Mine throws a great pattern at 40yds but you would be very surprised at how well it still looks at 15-25. it is not rifle like at all, it has a nice even yet somewhat tight group there. Some assume that if you put up a great pattern at 40yds that at 15-25 it will be the size of a silver dollar. That is not really the case with a good set up and choke.

I dont care what you shoot choke wise, at under 10yds it is going to be TIGHT.

 

[REN]

just 1 example of what i mean. This guy was getting very good numbers at 40yds and was worried at 20 it was going to be super tight so he shot a 20 to see. As you see below the 20 is not really crazy tight and IMO a very good pattern at 20yds, one i would have no issues with hunting with and worrying about missing at a close range.

 

[TheLBLman]

Just an observation I've noticed on many pattern tests:

The shooter usually doesn't have his pattern centered over his point of aim. Circles are drawn around the most dense portion of the pattern, which is seldom covering, or just barely touching the point aimed.

Not saying one can't remember that his set-up throws the most dense part of the pattern a few inches left, right, etc., but seems those most dense portions of the pattern also move around.

Personally, I'd rather have a more uniform 20-inch pattern than a super-concentrated 10" pattern that sometimes hits left, sometimes hits right, sometimes high, sometimes low. Way I'm looking at it, the denser that 10" circle, the fewer pellets between the 10" and 20" circles.

 

[String Music]

I see a million threads with folks fretting over chokes and which loads to use. To be honest it really makes me scratch my head as to why people feel the need to spend so much $$$ and waste so much time over this stuff. Another poster in another got me thinking, and thought I would give my $.02 from a long time chasing and killing these crazy birds.

I grew up in the river bottoms of Mississippi, and hunted turkeys there and AL as a youngster and on through my college years before moving here almost 10 years ago. I had the luxury of getting to know some of the legendary turkey killers in that part of the world.

These folks kept things simple and straight forward when it came to guns, shells, and chokes. They weren't after rifle tight patterns, and weren't worried about the latest and greatest material to craft pellets out of either. Still aren't today.

With that said some of these same folks went on to start businesses which are market product to turkey hunters, therefore they do mfg chokes tubes to meet current market demands, and talk about different loads and so forth. This is nothing more then capitalism at work. Nothing wrong with it, and no ill intentions behind any of it.

But and this is the important stuff from my perspective. I hunt with these same folks every year, and every year they have the same guns, same chokes, and shoot the same loads they have for decades. They kill as many birds as they want, and rarely if ever miss or wound a bird.

I adopted this approach when I started and have not waivered over the years. It is simple, and works extremely well, and is far easier and less expensive then this new stuff.

Gun X + Modified Factory Choke Tube + Load of your choice = consistent success out to around 40 yards. That is it.

I have 2 turkey guns currently, a Browning Gold which I have had forever, and it sports a factory modified tube, and i shoot WInchester HV 3.5" 2 oz #5 loads out of it. It is a very bad decision for a longbeard to test it's lethality.

My new gun is a SBEII which I also shoot a modified factory choke out of, with the same load as above. Guess what, it will flat kill a longbeards butt out to 40 yards and probably further, I just haven't taken a shot longer then that.

I have been fortunate over my life to kill a lot of longbeards, getting up around 150+ now, and not once I have I shot one with anything other then the above choke/load combination. The other guys I mentioned have killed literally hundreds upon hundreds of birds, and make me or really anyone else look foolish when it comes to success, and they use the exact same philosophy.

My point is not how many birds I or others have killed, it is that consider saving $$$ and time, and keep it simple. It works, and the other info I provide just as a basis for my opinion.

To each their own, and do what makes you happy, but keep in mind that it doesn't have to be complicated or expensive. I know with the economy sucking $$ is tight, and this might give a few hope that it won't cost a ton to be successful.

I too used the modified choke/winchester HV #5s combo for many years. Actually, the Winchester HV shells are the only shells I've used (minus a brief stint with Federals). I don't recall missing more than one or two birds with this combo- but I just "had" to buy a turkey-specific choke.

After getting the itch, I switched to a .660 Kicks choke a couple years ago. It throw a great pattern at 40 yards, but was super tight around 20 yards. As a result, I missed way more turkeys than I care to admit. I ended up selling the Kicks choke and bought a .670 Pure Gold choke.

I'm not looking for how far I can kill a turkey. I'm more concerned with shots ranging from 0-35 yards(which are the norm once the foliage comes out).

If I don't like how this choke patterns, I will likely switch back to my modified choke. After reading this post, I'm going to try the Winch. HV #5s before trying the premium shells.

 

[TheLBLman]

Wes, that's why most of us that do this stuff use some type of adjustable sight.

I understand, and have a scope on my dedicated turkey gun, too.
Just noticing that most everyone else also has adjustable sights, but they're still throwing that "most dense" 10 inches somewhere other than the aiming point.

I can only speak for my gun, but my pattern doesn't move around. As a matter of fact, During testing I had my scope zeroed for Win. XR 5's, and it shot both the XR 5's and 6's dead on. But when I switched to Hevishot it shot the 6's and Magblends high and right. I thought that was interesting.

That's part of what I'm talking about:
Different shotgun loads hit in different places much like different rifle bullets. But when properly sighted in with a specific load, the most dense 10" still seems to jump around a bit in my testing (even though the entire pattern doesn't seem to do this).

 

[TheLBLman]

Just to let you know, Setterman, as well as myself were recently diagnosed with CRS.
Those of us suffering from CRS freqently just "forget" things.

Support CRS Awareness
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/moredetails ... rNo=1&pr=F

 

[REN]

Just an observation I've noticed on many pattern tests:

The shooter usually doesn't have his pattern centered over his point of aim. Circles are drawn around the most dense portion of the pattern, which is seldom covering, or just barely touching the point aimed.

Not saying one can't remember that his set-up throws the most dense part of the pattern a few inches left, right, etc., but seems those most dense portions of the pattern also move around.

Personally, I'd rather have a more uniform 20-inch pattern than a super-concentrated 10" pattern that sometimes hits left, sometimes hits right, sometimes high, sometimes low. Way I'm looking at it, the denser that 10" circle, the fewer pellets between the 10" and 20" circles.

true, however the guy that did that one was shooting freehand at 20 so he just happened to flinch. with any decent rest like a knee it would be a better shot.

very few guns shoot exact POI to POA thats just how it goes. As swamp said after changing chokes last year i found out my POI was way off so i went to a halo sight to correct it. Shoots very well now.

even out of a modified choke and lead shells a shotguns POI will never be exact each time. I know what you are saying as far as it jumping with a connection to the tightness of the pattern which is what i was getting at when i said you need to shoot the gun at what you plan to hunt distance wise. I shoot mine at 15, 25 and 40. if i feel the pattern is to tight at any of those i will try something else.

 

[Winchester]

For those worried about a too tight pattern and possibly missing at close ranges of 20 yards and in!! There is a very simple solution, Aim a little lower on the bird! I promise you at 20 yards you will get all the penetration needed below the featherline on the neck! Missing at close range is totally uncalled for, just aim a lil lower!

 

[REN]

also just to add, my gun shoots MUCH more consistent patterns and POI when the barrel is clean. If I shoot it, swab and clean it before the next shot it is very very close to the exact same POI. thats hard to fully do when patterning but during actual season i clean my gun very well after each shot so i know i am shooting form a clean barrel on the next one.

 

[Boll Weevil]

And therein lies the problem. If MOST of your shots are expected to be under 35 yards, is it possible a rifle-like pattern (under 35 yards) might do more harm than good?

For this very reason, I now carry an over/under almost exclusively. I shoot Nitros through Rhino chokes (660 on top and 673 on bottom). A simple flick of thumb let's me select which barrel whether he pops up at 4 yards or 40.

 

[TheLBLman]

And therein lies the problem. If MOST of your shots are expected to be under 35 yards, is it possible a rifle-like pattern (under 35 yards) might do more harm than good?

For this very reason, I now carry an over/under almost exclusively. I shoot Nitros through Rhino chokes (660 on top and 673 on bottom). A simple flick of thumb let's me select which barrel whether he pops up at 4 yards or 40.

For about two decades, my "go-to" turkey gun was a classic side-by-side. This gun was made long before choke tubes, but it had been custom made bored "extra full" in the left barrel and "full" in the right barrel. It only has 2 3/4" chambers, but it has been a great turkey-killing gun for me.

Like you, I particularly liked having an instant choice of two different chokes, and usually kept a very different load in one barrel vs. the other. It's also very lightweight and a joy to carry.

This gun would still be my "go-to" turkey gun today if I hadn't come in need of using an optical sight. Considered putting a Burris Fastfire on it, but decided to just leave it in its original classic state. Seemed easier just to buy a new turkey gun that was factory designed to accomodate optics. So now I'm toting around this heavy gun that can handle 3 1/2" shells, yet still find myself killing most turkeys at an average distance probably less than 25 yards.

I see myself soon getting a lightweight 20 guage as my "go-to" turkey gun. My opinion remains, for the most part, we've been sold a "bill of goods" with the specialty turkey guns.

 

[Cy]

I can only speak for my gun, but my pattern doesn't move around. As a matter of fact, During testing I had my scope zeroed for Win. XR 5's, and it shot both the XR 5's and 6's dead on. But when I switched to Hevishot it shot the 6's and Magblends high and right. I thought that was interesting.

That's part of what I'm talking about:
Different shotgun loads hit in different places much like different rifle bullets. But when properly sighted in with a specific load, the most dense 10" still seems to jump around a bit in my testing (even though the entire pattern doesn't seem to do this).

Much of this is recoil. Any rifle/shotgun/pistol POI is sensitive to grip, rest, rear support, etc. The more recoil, the more sensitive it is. If you shoot it off a bench with a front rest, the POI is going to be different than it is shooting off your knee with your back against a tree. If you pull it in to your shoulder really tight and grab the forearm in a death grip, then loosen up on the following shot, the POI will probably shift a bit. Like with any other kind of shooting, the more consistent your form the more consistent your groups will be.

That's why you see so many recommendations to test from a position that you hunt from. It's also the reason that a lead sled is good for pattern testing, but not for sighting in optics. It might save your shoulder, but it's likely your gun won't shoot where it's pointed when you are shooting at a bird.

I have to shoot very slowly when I'm working on turkey shotgun loads. After a while I'm paying very little attention to my shooting and more and more attention to the fact that my teeth are fixin to get rattled.

 

[RAFI]

I really haven't ever missed. I know I know, but I haven't. I have also killed a ton of turkeys, so either I am the luckiest person on earth or just so freaking deadly that I ought to go down in history for this achievement. :grin:

I guess if you count missing on a 1st shot but killing the bird with a follow up as missing then technically yes I have. But I have never missed or lost a shot bird. Screwed myself now haven't I.

I have missed. Missed last year on my first morning at Chuck Swan, then killed a different bird an hour later. Almost more fun like that, but not really.

I rarely miss, but it does happen, and when it does it was my fault every time.

I knew it lol like i said you are lying if you say you never miss