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Hunting technique poll results

Why do you keep wanting to argue getting nowhere? Say your peace and go on. Your like a broken record. We get it, your a traditional hunter 95% of the time, but will use a decoy. It legal your right, but don't get defensive or hurt when your asking why people think it's detrimental to turkeys and they suggest you go listen to a biologist tell you exactly why with research and studies.
 
hbg1 said:
If you want to protect turkey populations why not argue to start season later and reduce bag limits? Why attack the use of decoys?
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We have argued all of that. It fell on deaf ears because TWRA is apparently more interested in selling licenses than managing turkeys. We attack decoys (specifically strutters and fans) because they remove the dominant breeder from the flock at critical breeding time. And you'd most likely never kill him any other way. You keep asking the same questions and getting the same answers. LISTEN TO THE PODCAST AND YOU'LL UNDERSTAND.
 
hbg1 said:
Hell, killing turkeys is bad for the resource but nobody is advocating stopping that are they?
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at this point I think you are just trolling. You seem to have a reply for everything that either doesnt apply to the conversation or is so out there that I honestly dont think you are serious at this point.
 
hbg1 said:
Have you or any of the Godly traditionalists ever killed a dominate gobbler the first two weeks of season? I'd be willing to bet the farm I know the answer to that question. Regardless of how he was killed he is still dead.
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now I know you have to be trolling.

A) no one at any point said they didnt
B) the ENTIRE point of the decoy talk is the % increase of said dominate gobbler success rate using a stutter or even half strut jake early season. If you take a guy that hunts 25years and never uses a decoy once and then a guy that has the same basic skills and conditions and uses one all during the early season do you not believe that % would be much higher for the 2nd guy?

hahah for the love of god I dont know why I keep getting sucked back into this.......Im just gonna move one at this point. As stated in a different thread, people have their mind made up on certain subjects and no matter how much factual evidence provided or condemning data they are just gonna stick to their guns
 
REN said:
at this point I think you are just trolling. You seem to have a reply for everything that either doesnt apply to the conversation or is so out there that I honestly dont think you are serious at this point.
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I'm done responding to him. He's definitely trolling. He's had me on the line long enough.
 
REN said:
now I know you have to be trolling.

A) no one at any point said they didnt
B) the ENTIRE point of the decoy talk is the % increase of said dominate gobbler success rate using a stutter or even half strut jake early season. If you take a guy that hunts 25years and never uses a decoy once and then a guy that has the same basic skills and conditions and uses one all during the early season do you not believe that % would be much higher for the 2nd guy?

hahah for the love of god I dont know why I keep getting sucked back into this.......Im just gonna move one at this point. As stated in a different thread, people have their mind made up on certain subjects and no matter how much factual evidence provided or condemning data they are just gonna stick to their guns
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I agree, some people just have their mind made up regardless
 
REN said:
at this point I think you are just trolling. You seem to have a reply for everything that either doesnt apply to the conversation or is so out there that I honestly dont think you are serious at this point.
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That's odd I feel the same way about you, no matter what is suggested or proven you can argue it
 
REN said:
now I know you have to be trolling.

A) no one at any point said they didnt
B) the ENTIRE point of the decoy talk is the % increase of said dominate gobbler success rate using a stutter or even half strut jake early season. If you take a guy that hunts 25years and never uses a decoy once and then a guy that has the same basic skills and conditions and uses one all during the early season do you not believe that % would be much higher for the 2nd guy?

hahah for the love of god I dont know why I keep getting sucked back into this.......Im just gonna move one at this point. As stated in a different thread, people have their mind made up on certain subjects and no matter how much factual evidence provided or condemning data they are just gonna stick to their guns
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You are so against dominate gobblers being taken the first two weeks yet you are guilty of doing it, in my book that is hypocrisy
 
No No No GIF
 
hgb1 -

Would it matter to you if our statewide poult production has decreased by 45% since strutter decoys became a thing?

What if poult production fell to a point that, mathematically, the turkey population was no longer sustainable long term?
 
That's some funny stuff right there. I don't see a difference in calling and putting a decoy you are fooling/ tricking that bird/deer/ coyote whatever. If you'll call why not put a decoy just fooling him in a different way. I more understand the guy that says I won't call or put a decoy than a guy that says I will call but not a decoy. My old man won't call or put a decoy if I use my experience and do my homework he'll walk by he says for deer or turkey. I do totally disagree with fanning or Tom decoys this is dangerous.
 
Southern Sportsman said:
hgb1 -

Would it matter to you if our statewide poult production has decreased by 45% since strutter decoys became a thing?

What if poult production fell to a point that, mathematically, the turkey population was no longer sustainable long term?
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He would keep hunting them with any legal means possible. He has said that multiple times. He doesn't care about the resource.
 
Southern Sportsman said:
hgb1 -

Would it matter to you if our statewide poult production has decreased by 45% since strutter decoys became a thing?

What if poult production fell to a point that, mathematically, the turkey population was no longer sustainable long term?
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Wow this is reaching at best.. Follow the science huh? Present your data to analyze.
 
Bgoodman30 said:
Wow this is reaching at best.. Follow the science huh? Present your data to analyze.
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I'm a little surprised by hgb1's sudden silence.

It's not my data. It's the TWRA's data, collected every year since the early 1980s.


Broken down by 5-year averages, our statewide poult recruitment since 1995 is below. The "pretty boy" decoys that started the strutter decoy fad came out in 2005.


Year Range​
Poults per Hen
(5-year average)​
Poults per Brood
(5-year average)​
1995-1999
3.92​
6.28​
2000-2004
3.4​
6.04​
2005-2009
2.46​
5.24​
2010-2014
2.12​
5.7​
2015-2019
1.9​
3.32​


With poult recruitment below 2 poults per hen (which ours has been for years now), the population is not sustainable. The middle TN survey has found similar production numbers and biologists/grad students doing the research have said that it's not sustainable. So has Dr. Chamberlain. So does common sense. Half of the poults are male. So if we have fewer than 2 poults for every hen, we are not producing enough new hen turkeys to replace the existing hen turkeys. But we're still pounding away at gobblers with great efficiency and we're doing it just as early as we always have.

Are decoys 100% to blame? No. But they don't help. They definitely target dominant males early in the season. We're definitely killing a LOT of the existing gobblers before most hens have been bred. And we are definitely seeing a steady decline in turkey reproduction numbers.

It should be hard to kill a turkey. As they say, "if it was easy, everybody would do it." Well, decoys make it easy to kill a turkey. And in the last 10-15 years, there has been an explosion in the number of people turkey hunting. But the state has made virtually no changes to the turkey regulations to account for the increase in hunters or the much greater efficiency with which they kill turkeys.
 
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Southern Sportsman said:
I'm a little surprised by hgb1's sudden silence.

It's not my data. It's the TWRA's data, collected every year since the early 1980s.


Broken down by 5-year averages, our statewide poult recruitment since 1995 is below. The "pretty boy" decoys that started the strutter decoy fad came out in 2005.


Year Range​
Poults per Hen
(5-year average)​
Poults per Brood
(5-year average)​
1995-1999
3.92​
6.28​
2000-2004
3.4​
6.04​
2005-2009
2.46​
5.24​
2010-2014
2.12​
5.7​
2015-2019
1.9​
3.32​
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And the data that proves strutter decoys are the cause?
 
Bgoodman30 said:
And the data that proves strutter decoys are the cause?
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A decrease in poult numbers by nearly half starting exactly when strutter decoys became popularized is all I've got. You're welcome it ignore the correlation.

Whatever the cause, turkeys, like all wild game, are a finite resource. If we are killing too many, there are only a few options available to reduce kill numbers. (1) Reduce limits, (2) shorten seasons, or (3) Restrict manner and means. I think we need to do all three at this point. Because they target dominant birds, are undeniably effective, and coincide with the decline in reproductive numbers, I wish they would limit decoys as the first manner and means restriction.

You don't have to agree, but don't act like it's an outlandish idea.
 
i guess the thing to do to make some happy would be to close turkey season all together that would solve all the problems.
 
KPH said:
i guess the thing to do to make some happy would be to close turkey season all together that would solve all the problems.
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Since dramatic/sarcastic straw man scenarios are rarely helpful, what's your real suggestion? I've seen you and hgb1 and bgood criticize suggestions others have made, but I haven't seen much in the way of actual recommendations.

Deny that a problem exists and do nothing? Acknowledge that a problem exists but do nothing unless absolute metaphysical proof or divine prophecy establishes the exact cause of widespread declines in reproductive success across multiple states all starting in the mid-2000s?

If turkeys were doing great, I wouldn't be on here b*tching about decoys and start dates. I love turkey hunting more than literally any other activity on earth. I wish I could turkey hunt from March 1 to June 30 and kill 20 a year. I wouldn't use decoys regardless, but I wouldn't care much about other people using them. But turkeys are not doing great. And there is a convincing argument to be made that a combination of early start dates and widespread use of hyper-realistic strutter and aggressive jake decoys have adversely impacted turkeys at a population level. If that upsets some people, I'm sorry. But I'm far more concerned with protecting the resource than I am protecting peoples' feelings.

So again, what do you propose we do?
 

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