Hunting technique poll results

[bowhunterfanatic]

I'm a little surprised by hgb1's sudden silence.

It's not my data. It's the TWRA's data, collected every year since the early 1980s.

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/twra/documents/hunting/Wild-Turkey-Summer-Survey-Report-19-20.pdf

Broken down by 5-year averages, our statewide poult recruitment since 1995 is below. The "pretty boy" decoys that started the strutter decoy fad came out in 2005.

Year Range​	Poults per Hen (5-year average)​	Poults per Brood (5-year average)​
1995-1999	3.92​	6.28​
2000-2004	3.4​	6.04​
2005-2009	2.46​	5.24​
2010-2014	2.12​	5.7​
2015-2019	1.9​	3.32​

With poult recruitment below 2 poults per hen (which ours has been for years now), the population is not sustainable. The middle TN survey has found similar production numbers and biologists/grad students doing the research have said that it's not sustainable. So has Dr. Chamberlain. So does common sense. Half of the poults are male. So if we have fewer than 2 poults for every hen, we are not producing enough new hen turkeys to replace the existing hen turkeys. But we're still pounding away at gobblers with great efficiency and we're doing it just as early as we always have.

Are decoys 100% to blame? No. But they don't help. They definitely target dominant males early in the season. We're definitely killing a LOT of the existing gobblers before most hens have been bred. And we are definitely seeing a steady decline in turkey reproduction numbers.

It should be hard to kill a turkey. As they say, "if it was easy, everybody would do it." Well, decoys make it easy to kill a turkey. And in the last 10-15 years, there has been an explosion in the number of people turkey hunting. But the state has made virtually no changes to the turkey regulations to account for the increase in hunters or the much greater efficiency with which they kill turkeys.

Any idea when QDM really started becoming a big deal in the deer hunting world? In my mind that also started around the early 2000s. The reason I ask this question is because, in my mind anyway, that's about the same time a lot of landowners and deer hunters stopped letting people coon hunt their property. I don't and have never coon hunted, so I don't have a clue how many coons hunters were killing back then, but I do know when I was coming up through school coon hunting was a pretty big deal in my area, and it seems like no one participates in it around here anymore. Personally I think that is another major factor in the decline we are seeing in my area.

 

[KPH]

Since dramatic/sarcastic straw man scenarios are rarely helpful, what's your real suggestion? I've seen you and hgb1 and bgood criticize suggestions others have made, but I haven't seen much in the way of actual recommendations.

Deny that a problem exists and do nothing? Acknowledge that a problem exists but do nothing unless absolute metaphysical proof or divine prophecy establishes the exact cause of widespread declines in reproductive success across multiple states all starting in the mid-2000s?

If turkeys were doing great, I wouldn't be on here b*tching about decoys and start dates. I love turkey hunting more than literally any other activity on earth. I wish I could turkey hunt from March 1 to June 30 and kill 20 a year. I wouldn't use decoys regardless, but I wouldn't care much about other people using them. But turkeys are not doing great. And there is a convincing argument to be made that a combination of early start dates and widespread use of hyper-realistic strutter and aggressive jake decoys have adversely impacted turkeys at a population level. If that upsets some people, I'm sorry. But I'm far more concerned with protecting the resource than I am protecting peoples' feelings.

So again, what do you propose we do?

let twra do their job they have been put down for their handling of deer and turkeys but you are probley too young to remember when there was just about no big game hunting in Tennessee will i can and just who do you think brought it back it sure wasn't arm chair biologist with facts and figures that can be looked at anyway you want the results to be. there is some on here who do nothing but look down their noise at how others hunt and think their way is the only way. now i am not sure i have criticized others suggestions but have taken exception to what some have criticized of how others hunt. as far as recommendations i am not qualified to give any and i don't think very many on here are either SO why not shut it down and there would be less gripping.

 

[Bgoodman30]

A decrease in poult numbers by nearly half starting exactly when strutter decoys became popularized is all I've got. You're welcome it ignore the correlation.

Whatever the cause, turkeys, like all wild game, are a finite resource. If we are killing too many, there are only a few options available to reduce kill numbers. (1) Reduce limits, (2) shorten seasons, or (3) Restrict manner and means. I think we need to do all three at this point. Because they target dominant birds, are undeniably effective, and coincide with the decline in reproductive numbers, I wish they would limit decoys as the first manner and means restriction.

You don't have to agree, but don't act like it's an outlandish idea.

Its not outlandish but I just need more proof. Its kind of like California blaming Texas for Covid spikes because they didn't ban masks. There might be some correlation but its all fake news until more study's are done..

Everyone here wants to save the wild turkey. You think we are killing too many but I think the problem is we are not producing enough.. Brooding success has nothing to do with the dominant bird..

 

[TDW05]

Its not outlandish but I just need more proof. Its kind of like California blaming Texas for Covid spikes because they didn't ban masks. There might be some correlation but its all fake news until more study's are done..

Everyone here wants to save the wild turkey. You think we are killing too many but I think the problem is we are not producing enough.. Brooding success has nothing to do with the dominant bird..

If those birds survive to breed more hens the that increases the chances of having more success all around.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

you are probley too young to remember when there was just about no big game hunting in Tennessee will i can and just who do you think brought it back it sure wasn't arm chair biologist with facts and figures that can be looked at anyway you want the results to be.

You're right that I'm to young to remember the era before restocking efforts. But don't mistake that for being uninformed about the process. Wild turkeys were brought back largely through the efforts of the NWTF working with the TWRA. The NWTF explicitly requested — both in writing and by representative who appeared at the Fish and Wildlife Commission Meeting to speak — that TN's season be delayed and shortened 2 weeks and the limit be reduced to 2 turkeys, no more than 1 during the first week. That recommendation came from NWTF biologists. The TN commission ignored that recommendation. The Southeastern Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, which includes the best and most qualified biologists in the world concerning game management in the southeast, has expressly recommended that seasons be set to open near or after peak nest initiation (around April 14 in TN). The TN Commission has ignored that recommendation. Many within the TWRA believe we should delay seasons and make other efforts to reduce early gobbler harvest. But the Commission makes the rules and regs, not the agency.

So it is hardly "armchair biology" that I'm promoting.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

Its not outlandish but I just need more proof. Its kind of like California blaming Texas for Covid spikes because they didn't ban masks. There might be some correlation but its all fake news until more study's are done..

So do nothing and hope for the best?

You think we are killing too many but I think the problem is we are not producing enough.. Brooding success has nothing to do with the dominant bird..

Genuinely curious. On what do you base your opinion that brooding success has nothing to do with dominant males?

 

[JCDEERMAN]

You're right that I'm to young to remember the era before restocking efforts. But don't mistake that for being uninformed about the process. Wild turkeys were brought back largely through the efforts of the NWTF working with the TWRA. The NWTF explicitly requested — both in writing and by representative who appeared at the Fish and Wildlife Commission Meeting to speak — that TN's season be delayed and shortened 2 weeks and the limit be reduced to 2 turkeys, no more than 1 during the first week. That recommendation came from NWTF biologists. The TN commission ignored that recommendation. The Southeastern Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, which includes the best and most qualified biologists in the world concerning game management in the southeast, has expressly recommended that seasons be set to open near or after peak nest initiation (around April 14 in TN). The TN Commission has ignored that recommendation. Many within the TWRA believe we should delayed seasons and make other efforts to reduce early gobbler harvest. But the Commission makes the rules and regs, not the agency.

So it is hardly "armchair biology" that I'm promoting.

 

[TDW05]

 

[Bgoodman30]

So do nothing and hope for the best?



Genuinely curious. On what do you base your opinion that brooding success has nothing to do with dominant males?

Didn't say that but if you take away hunter opportunity and its all for naught then that a bad move.

Tell us how the males protect the brood?

 

[Southern Sportsman]

Didn't say that but if you take away hunter opportunity and its all for naught then that a bad move.

Tell us how the males protect the brood?

The longterm success and wellbeing of the resource is first priority. Hunter opportunity is second. There is clearly a problem. There are well reasoned, well supported recommendations from extremely qualified sources on ways to address the problem. Rejecting those just so we don't give an inch on hunter opportunity is the opposite of conservation.

As for males, they don't "protect the brood." They are necessary to produce it.

I'm happy to elaborate when I get settled in tonight. About to pick kids up. But you didn't answer my question. On what do you base your claim that dominant males have nothing to do with brood success?

 

[hbg1]

hgb1 -

Would it matter to you if our statewide poult production has decreased by 45% since strutter decoys became a thing?

What if poult production fell to a point that, mathematically, the turkey population was no longer sustainable long term?

In case you aren't aware I live in the 4 county area with later season and lower bag limit but I will still bet the farm it isn't because of strutter decoys. People here simply just don't use them that much. Liberal bag limits, predation, poor weather during pouting, and chicken houses are the leading causes of our issues. Our decline coincided with the rise of chicken house construction perfectly.

 

[hbg1]

That's some funny stuff right there. I don't see a difference in calling and putting a decoy you are fooling/ tricking that bird/deer/ coyote whatever. If you'll call why not put a decoy just fooling him in a different way. I more understand the guy that says I won't call or put a decoy than a guy that says I will call but not a decoy. My old man won't call or put a decoy if I use my experience and do my homework he'll walk by he says for deer or turkey. I do totally disagree with fanning or Tom decoys this is dangerous.

Amen

 

[hbg1]

Wow this is reaching at best.. Follow the science huh? Present your data to analyze.

There is no data or science to back the claims being made here, just people with opinions, that's all

 

[hbg1]

i guess the thing to do to make some happy would be to close turkey season all together that would solve all the problems.

I have actually suggested this to Twra to no avail, that's how much I care about the resource

 

[PossumSlayer]

There is no data or science to back the claims being made here, just people with opinions, that's all

Guys with decades of experience?

 

[PossumSlayer]

I have actually suggested this to Twra to no avail, that's how much I care about the resource

So you don't turkey hunt but tell others what's acceptable?

 

[hbg1]

let twra do their job they have been put down for their handling of deer and turkeys but you are probley too young to remember when there was just about no big game hunting in Tennessee will i can and just who do you think brought it back it sure wasn't arm chair biologist with facts and figures that can be looked at anyway you want the results to be. there is some on here who do nothing but look down their noise at how others hunt and think their way is the only way. now i am not sure i have criticized others suggestions but have taken exception to what some have criticized of how others hunt. as far as recommendations i am not qualified to give any and i don't think very many on here are either SO why not shut it down and there would be less gripping.

Well said

 

[hbg1]

Guys with decades of experience?

Hunting experience? Biologists?

 

[PossumSlayer]

Hunting experience? Biologists?

Do cattle farmers know more about beef than you?"

 

[hbg1]

So you don't turkey hunt but tell others what's acceptable?

I don't tell anyone what's acceptable, I give my opinions based on personal experience, and yes I turkey hunt, probably since before you were born.