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Lead sled

If used properly the lead sled will pose no harm to equipment. Also, it will not affect the zero. If you can't hold the gun properly then that is user error. You can use any means that you want to zero but if you don't hold it the same way every time then you are screwed. The sled allows for you to hold the rifle the same every time. Then it is up to the shooter to get the horizontal hair level.
 
Tnshooter15 said:
If you can't hold the gun properly then that is user error.
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Which is why people use a lead sled

Tnshooter15 said:
You can use any means that you want to zero but if you don't hold it the same way every time then you are screwed.
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Also proves that the point of impact can change when going from a sled to not using one
 
Jcalder said:
Which is why people use a lead sled


Also proves that the point of impact can change when going from a sled to not using one
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True but it can happen as easily going from bags to backpack or anything else. If the man pulling the trigger does his job it won't change.
 
Jcalder said:
Did they train you to actually shoot in sniper school or use a sled?
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Yes we did use sleds they weren't Caldwell's but sleds. It all about getting it right where it counts and that is the reticle correct and bullet on target. We also shot rifles with no stocks past the pistol grip still had to get the sight right. Shot laying on your back shooting past your feet still had to get the sight right. I'm going to say again if your rifle shoots different from a sled to anything else it is 100 percent on the man that is pulling the trigger.
 
I got a lead sled about 15-20 years ago after getting two new shotguns. I was testing 12 gauge 3 inch AND 3.5 inch turkey loads with a variety of chokes, shot loads and sizes. (As well as a number of slug loads in both guns. - both saboted and non-saboted) After about 50 rounds with many more to go I was so sore from the recoil that I was occasionally jerking shots. (and thus wasting ammo.) As a lifelong shooter at 6'5" tall around 250lbs I can absorb a lot of recoil. But it takes it's toll and you begin to dread squeezing off each succeeding shot.


It paid for itself immediately in both less pain (no blue shoulders), less wasted ammo ($), and lost time repeating known jerked shots. I now typically start most shooting sessions at the range to check zeros on firearms before the Fall with it because with the firearm resting in it it's easy to adjust sights, run cleaning rods through barrels and can be used to solidly rest new firearms when starting out bore sighting. It's easy to clamp the firearm in it for a rock solid rest to adjust the crosshairs over to the actual hole in the target to speed up zeroing and save time and money.

But like any tool it needs to be used properly. If I need the extra ballast, I use a 25 lb bag of lead shot. (I often don't use that with 06's or smaller calibers.) Have never needed more than that. But you need to put a sand based shooting bag under the firearm's foreend to prevent muzzle jump off any hard surface there and I created a cushy cloth/leather insert for the buttstock to rest the gun in at the rear to simulate a shoulder. Like with all rests, you need to firmly hold onto the stock at both ends to achieve a normal feel of hand-to-stock and cheek pressure or there MIGHT be a slight difference in shot placement on the target between a firmly grasped vs a loosely grasped stock. My experience is that it would be less than an inch at 100 yards. Minute-of-deer. Check your final zero from your expected shooting position in the field just to be sure.

It's a tool. It's real effectiveness depends on the person using the tool.
 
Spent years centerfire benchrest shooting at a competitive level. so I know my way around bags pretty well. When these lead sleds came around It sure took all the "work" and "technique" out of the equation when doing a initial site in. You can literally get a scope zeroed in 3 shots usually.

Quality mounts and quality scopes and proper mounting take alot of the problems with broken scopes. I suspect most of the reports of broken scopes on the sleds are trashcos, crapnells and lower end vortex.
 
PillsburyDoughboy said:
Spent years centerfire benchrest shooting at a competitive level. so I know my way around bags pretty well. When these lead sleds came around It sure took all the "work" and "technique" out of the equation when doing a initial site in. You can literally get a scope zeroed in 3 shots usually.

Quality mounts and quality scopes and proper mounting take alot of the problems with broken scopes. I suspect most of the reports of broken scopes on the sleds are trashcos, crapnells and lower end vortex.
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I also think it's how they weigh down the sled. The sled has to have some give, which is why I use lead shot, it absorbs the recoil without bouncing it back to the rifle. I also don't lock the rifle down, I just sit it in the cradle.
 
Granddaddy said:
Is this based on an assumption that elk hunters use mag calibers? Just curious because I've always used my 30.06 with no kill shot issues.
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Not really. Take 10 minutes and do a google search on what's needed to kill an elk. Half or more of the recommendations will be a magnum of some sort. But a magnum isn't really needed. Your 30-06 isn't really needed. People could switch to a more recoil friendly caliber, that they can shoot for days on end without developing a flinch, sore shoulder, or bad habits in general. Ask around how many times a year those people shoot those magnums. Ask them their ability to stay on target thru the shot, if they can spot their impacts. Ask those same people why they don't shoot their magnums more often. Bet it's recoil or cost, or both. Which brings us back to this thread, the whole need for a sled. People are shooting calibers they shouldn't, so they're using a sled to justify it. And just read thru the thread. For whatever reason the majority of people on this site have a huge hate for anything with 6.5 or creedmoor in the name. It's like they're magically inferior to anything else on the market lol. But for the recoil, cost, and ballistics they're just hard to beat.
 
Omega said:
I also think it's how they weigh down the sled. The sled has to have some give, which is why I use lead shot, it absorbs the recoil without bouncing it back to the rifle. I also don't lock the rifle down, I just sit it in the cradle.
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Very true. If you actually clamp a gun to a rest it can definitely affect shot placement. In comparison to shooting a snuggly held but still a little loosely held gun off a lead sled plus sand bag. I also have a Sight Vise that is great for cleaning and working on guns because the vise-grip is built in. It is bolted to a base board I made to add stability.

1721485846277.webp



www.midwayusa.com

Kolpin Sight-Vise Gun Vise Rifle Shooting Rest V Front

This solid vise is great for both shooting and minor gunsmithing tasks and has a free-floating, removable cradle that allows a rifle's front end to lay...
www.midwayusa.com www.midwayusa.com

But it came with "issues." Made of lightweight plastic with the Sight Vise it was easy to bump the gun and knock it over. So you (as recommended) add lead shot to the base compartments they provide. But that was not enough stability so I bolted it to a thick board (painted white) and occasionally even clamp the white board with bolted on Sight Vise to a Black and Decker Workmate portable workbench. Very solid. But if you shoot from this clamped down platform it can definitely alter the shot impact a bit at 100 yards or more.

So the Sight Vise is good for working on guns but I always actually shoot from the padded Lead Sled if I need recoil reduction.
 
Omega said:
I also think it's how they weigh down the sled. The sled has to have some give, which is why I use lead shot, it absorbs the recoil without bouncing it back to the rifle. I also don't lock the rifle down, I just sit it in the cradle.
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I agree. I just let it sit in the cradle and make sure I'm level and let her rip.
 
Regardless the reason a person uses a lead sled, a scope can be "killed" in other ways. When a rifle is fired, the gun accelerates in reverse but is stopped by your shoulder or lead sled shortly after. Basically, the scope internals experience whiplash. Factors that affect this are projectile weight, powder charge weight, projectile velocity and firearm weight. As the first 3 increase, the gun accelerates faster and more abruptly. However, the overall firearm weight nullifies this acceleration to a degree. As weight increases, recoil velocity and force decrease. This is why many bench guns, especially in large magnum calibers are built heavy.

Now, let's think.about the lead sled. IF the firearm is held tightly into the rear of the lead sled, the lead sled becomes part of the gun, adding weight to the gun and slowing recoil velocity and overall force. The problem comes in when the gun is not seated in the lead sled rear bag tightly. Then, recoil deceleration velocity is increased when the buttstock finally seats in the rear bag. This is where a scope can be damaged. It's like allowing the buttstock slam into a wall rather that a human shoulder.

I have a lead sled but rarely use it. I used it a lot when pressure testing heavy sml loads with recoil in the 70, 80 and 90 ftlb range, such as a 350gr bullet with 150gr h4350 traveling at 3400fps. However that was a purpose built test gun and was unscoped.

The hardest guns I've ever seen on scopes are single shot sml conversions. This, I believe is due to their light weight which allows the rifle to recoil with more velocity.

One of the elders in our sml group is a retired police officer. He goes to the range weekly, shooting 100 or so rounds of 45cal sml in load group testing. He uses a lead sled exclusively. He even uses it in our quarterly competitions. He has never lost a scope to a lead sled. He designed a plate that sits on the bench under the lead sled. It is plywood with slots rostered into it for the lead sled feet. The slots are lubricated to allow the lead sled to recoil. (Pictured below)
He is an ex benchrest competitor and shoots some phenomenal groups off the sled.

The lead sled is a tool. Like any tool, used improperly, damage could occur.

Feb-1-2018-2.webp
Feb-1-2018-1.webp
 
Very nice lead sled mounting system. The only time I ever had trouble with a failing scope was when 25 years ago I bought a cheap scope for a (then) new Diana Model 34 .177 caliber magnum air rifle. At 1000+ fps it killed the first scope within about a week causing a loose reticle. That's because, as I learned, air rifles can be harder on scopes than firearms due to their "double recoil".

"... Well there are a couple of things happening here. First we have to realize that unlike regular firearms, 99.9999% of spring-piston recoil is NOT generated by the pellet and the air being expelled out of the muzzle. It's actually being generated by the piston and spring, both of which are very heavy components, especially the large steel spring. When the sear is released, the highly compressed heavy spring will jump forward with tremendous force pushing the piston ahead of it. As the spring and piston are moving forward, the gun is recoiling back against your shoulder with significant pressure. Now here's the part that many people don't understand. As the piston comes to the end of the compression chamber it will actually strike the wall with substantial force, and the gun will now bounce forward, recoiling away from you."

Rifle scopes - Air gun scopes, there is a difference. IHMSA News Feature Article

From the pages of The IHMSA News, Rifle Scopes vs. Airgun Scopes, What's The Difference, Parallax Described
www.lasc.us

So I bought an air-gun rated Bushnell 3-9x Sportview that's killed hundreds of backyard/urban squirrels (quietly) over many years. Double recoil has never caused it to malfunction. You get what you pay for.

1721528285499.webp


and

1721528355072.webp


However you MUST cushion it with your hand and shoulder when you shoot as it will bounce around if laid on a hard rest of any kind, including if you try to rest the gun directly against a tree when shooting up into the treetops as you try to make some Brunswick stew.
 
BigJohnJTP said:
Very nice lead sled mounting system. The only time I ever had trouble with a failing scope was when 25 years ago I bought a cheap scope for a (then) new Diana Model 34 .177 caliber magnum air rifle. At 1000+ fps it killed the first scope within about a week causing a loose reticle. That's because, as I learned, air rifles can be harder on scopes than firearms due to their "double recoil".

"... Well there are a couple of things happening here. First we have to realize that unlike regular firearms, 99.9999% of spring-piston recoil is NOT generated by the pellet and the air being expelled out of the muzzle. It's actually being generated by the piston and spring, both of which are very heavy components, especially the large steel spring. When the sear is released, the highly compressed heavy spring will jump forward with tremendous force pushing the piston ahead of it. As the spring and piston are moving forward, the gun is recoiling back against your shoulder with significant pressure. Now here's the part that many people don't understand. As the piston comes to the end of the compression chamber it will actually strike the wall with substantial force, and the gun will now bounce forward, recoiling away from you."

Rifle scopes - Air gun scopes, there is a difference. IHMSA News Feature Article

From the pages of The IHMSA News, Rifle Scopes vs. Airgun Scopes, What's The Difference, Parallax Described
www.lasc.us

So I bought an air-gun rated Bushnell 3-9x Sportview that's killed hundreds of backyard/urban squirrels (quietly) over many years. Double recoil has never caused it to malfunction. You get what you pay for.

View attachment 235779

and

View attachment 235780

However you MUST cushion it with your hand and shoulder when you shoot as it will bounce around if laid on a hard rest of any kind, including if you try to rest the gun directly against a tree when shooting up into the treetops as you try to make some Brunswick stew.
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You have a lot going on with that rifle. What's with all the tape, if you don't mind me asking?
 

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