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Managing your own land
- Thread starter BSK
- Start date
That's where I'm at. My land is solid forest land, with not even a field on it. There is a healthy stand of mast bearing trees and the deer have done well.
He used to when it was a more balanced sex ratio. Now it's just too many. He sees a few bucks on cam but almost exclusively at night. The does get bred so obviously there are bucks, but seeing as how he rarely sees them or gets them on cam except for night, it would seem either the does are going to the bucks or the bucks herd a hot doe out away from the property. When a doe gets hot she usually breaks away from her group.
This is a great thread. I solely own and manage roughly 600 acres. For my area it is the perfect scenario. row crop ag land on two sides and the majority of my land is thinned pines with fantastic cover. There are some hardwoods mixed in here and there as well. Been trying to manage for going on 15 years. the Problem I am having is exactly what ski was talking about with his brothers place, too many does but I have to say for every 2-3 does I see I also see a buck. Not unusual for me to see 20+ deer in a two hour hunt with 6-8 of those being bucks. You may ask what is my problem, I haven't seen or have pics(5 cameras) of a buck I'd shoot this year yet. I have some mature bucks but I don't want to waste a tag on them because they wouldn't score 90 points and that's stretching it. Can be very frustrating
As of right now my place is entirely big mature hardwoods, mostly oak and hickory. There have always been good bucks but they're spread out like typical with big woods. When I put my first plot in it immediately began attracting deer.
Just my experience but I have not seen that a plot does anything to make bigger bucks. What it does is creates a spot they frequent, both for food and for search of does. And killing a good buck gets much more doable when you have an exact spot you know he visits.
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
No kidding. I remember seeing all those nice summer bucks you've posted in the past. We've had some really great bucks in the summer I've posted here as well. It is so apparent who the dominant sex is during summer for sure. Every year we see less and less bucks during the summer. Like you, used to be over 15 bucks we would label as "shooters". That has dwindled down to about 3-4 shooters the last couple years during the summer. We don't care about that, because they ALWAYS show up in the fall. Who cares what we have during the summer - they are just fun to look at.The crazy things about land management are the "unintended consequences." Back before I started managing the habitat, we were 94% hardwoods, and 6% brushy powerline right-of-ways. Surrounding that was some of the best habitat imaginable, with lots of bottomland agriculture. That meant my place was the "worst" habitat in the area. Nature has designed does to be dominant over bucks during the fawning season. It is far more important from a "survival of the species" standpoint for does raising fawns to have access to the best habitat. For that reason, does will often dominate good habitat during the summer, driving buck bachelor groups towards the worst habitat. The result was that I would have a fairly large number of bucks using my property during the summer, often 15+ of all ages. However, in a poor acorn year, I wasn't drawing bucks out of the bottomlands hence I decided to improve the habitat in the hopes of drawing bucks from the bottomlands even in a poor acorn year. Problem is, I made the habitat so much better that recently does and their fawns have taken over the property in summer! And they in turn have driven away the bucks! Now I only 4-6 bucks on the property in summer, and most of those are yearlings still hanging with their mother's social group.
Two steps forwards and one step back...
Here's where the testimony shows: our property is separated in two. We own 457 acres and my dads lifetime friend own 165 acres that adjoins. We do all the habitat improvement on our property, while my dads lifelong friend has done nothing. I've talked a lot about transforming our property over the last 1.5 years - This past summer of 2022, our 457 acres had ONE racked buck on it (small basket 1.5-2.5 yo 8pt). Granted, we only had cameras over 5 salt licks. I saw more does and fawns I have ever seen during the summer!!! However, on that adjoining 165 acre property, we have 1 salt lick at the far end of it. That salt lick had 8-9 different 3.5+ yo bucks on that lick all summer. It held all the bucks, while ours had nothing but does and fawns, with a couple yearling bucks sprinkled in.
Here's where I kind of had to put my foot in my mouth. Our guys were worried all summer about how we didn't have any good bucks. I explained to them our habitat is so much better now and the does are dominant during the fawning process - DON'T WORRY - they will show up come fall, around late Oct - first of Nov. Well, this year they never came. Our guys were looking to me for answers and I still don't have one. I just don't even know how to explain it or where to start. I'm just glad we aren't the only ones that saw what we saw this year - from reading on here and hearing from folks. Hoping for a big rebound next year!
PickettSFHunter
Well-Known Member
I have 3 separate hunting properties that I own. All small tracts. 107 acres, 82 acres, and 19 acres, all in the same county but very different parts of the county. I plant food plots, have nice orchards, and manage the native habitat fairly well. The two larger tracts are left alone and have sanctuaries, they are literally only hunted a few times a year. All of that being said, the hunting has done just like the rest of the county, going down hill and down hill. In the beginning, 15 years ago, I would have 10-12 nice bucks on the original 85 acres passing through or hanging around every year. That has dwindled to 1-2. Bears have gotten every where and eat fawns like crazy Bears destroy the orchards. Almost every hunter in my county poaches and it's always been that way here but that has really evolved. The top end bucks are now taken out by cell cameras, night vision with suppressor. It's really kind of depressing, like the good ol days are past. A friend and I were talking yesterday, literally all 4 of the top end bucks we knew about in one end of the county got taken out by corn, night vision, cell camera method. The top end buck around my house….taken out by backyard feeder, cell cam, suppressor. The legal hunters just don't have much of a chance anymore here.
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
You've got dang near a whole section! Congrats on having such a property. I'd love to have that much contiguous ground to work. Lots of experimenting you could do with a property like that.
As for your older bucks being small, I feel your pain and wish I had an answer for you. It's hard to kill a big buck in an area big bucks don't grow. Have you seen many larger bucks on the property in the past? It's been my experience that TN is quite diverse in buck size per given age, depending on area. This part of TN I live has oompa loompa deer. Racks look plenty big and proportioned with the body, but the bodies are tiny. I'm ok with it. Just had to tamp down my expectations a bit.
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
Have you had a year where you all just hammer the does? Just kill all you can during bow and then again in the late season?
Edit to also ask, why do you think the mature deer are so small? 90" for a mature deer is pitiful. What kind of crops are in the ag fields typically? Even if you had nothing but pines (poor overall nutrition for fall food), they still should be getting good food during the growing season (summer).
I'd rather have your "problem"I was able to kill a 148" 8 point a few years ago and my son took a 130" 8 point a couple years ago, other than that most mature deer here will do good to score 100"
Those are HUGE for 8 pointers. Doesn't sound like your area has any problem growing big bucks. Do you recall what your doe situation was back around the time you killed the big ones?
One year we were able to kill 17 mature does, it seems for every one we killed 2 more showed up!!!
typically corn and beans are the ag crops and all the deer are fat and healthy, actually rolling in fat.
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
Interesting - 600 acres in between ag seems like a dream. What county and do you have any producing oaks? If 2022 has taught me anything, it's that acorns are king! We have no ag around us, but we do have pines and clear cut bordering us. We are the only place around with oaks. When we have atleast a mediocre acorn crop, the deer, including mature bucks are there. 90" mature deer just doesn't make sense to me
How about winter and fawning food? And how close is good cover to the edges of the ag? Sounds like plenty property for does and bucks both.
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
While we do plant several acres of food plots... between the drought, lack of acorns and seed cost my focus is shifting to generating more early successional growth from the native seed bank...both in the thinned timber areas as well as setting back several acres of old field growth....we will still plant both warm and cool season food plots...but you can really add some high quality food to your property by getting sunlight to the forest floor and by releasing the native seed bank in old fields, etc....and as far as nutritional value..some of the natural "weeds" preferred by deer can compare to the highest quality food plot plants....and I really enjoy planting food plots....but we should use them to supplement all of the other habitat improvements that have been made on the property.
Chickenrig
Well-Known Member
BC
In my opinion
If you would have started this when you first bought your place you would be 5-7 yrs ahead of where you stand now . These kinds of projects and improvements take time to make a difference.
Quit talking about it and get your ass to work !!
You can't mess it up ! Watch , learn and DO !!!
Now go cut some trees down
