Managing your own land

[13pt]

One thing for the people thinking about pulling the trigger on your own ground. It is one of the best investments you will ever have and worth every day of blood sweat and tears and worth every single penny. If you think you can do it jump in with both feet. I firmly believe you won't regret it.

A ton of great information on this thread...and a great thread. Honestly, this statement stood out to me more than any. It is one of the best investments you'll ever own for so many reasons! Sure, your primary reason may be to create that honey hole you've always dreamed about, which it absolutely a series of wins and failures...but, dang it's fun!! Ultimately, every decision you make is all yours and you're only accountable to you. However, I believe we tend to be harder on ourselves than anyone which makes us very carefully research every decision, seek counsel, read and study before doing or not doing something. Because of this I've learned a ton more about deer habitat and deer movement and such...and it has certainly improved my overall hunting success. Then there's the benefit of ALWAYS having a great place for family to hunt! I just took one of my grandson's last weekend and we had a blast! We seen about 70 turkeys which he couldn't stop talking about, and though we didn't see anything he wanted to shoot, he's already asking when we can go back. Sometimes I just enjoy walking the trails through our 130 acres, not during deer season of course...lol, but there's a special feeling that comes over you as you walk your own property, and only you guys that own your own dirt know where I'm coming from..."it's one of the best investments you will ever have"!!

 

[BSK]

That is something I've tried very, very hard to avoid and one major reason I've not had my place logged. I don't want fawning cover. I don't want a bunch of does setting up home. My place is similar to what you describe. It's the bowl end of a hollow and a mile down at the mouth is a big river and the bottomland ag that comes with it. While I don't have a bunch of summer bucks I do get a bunch of fall bucks, often times notably more so than does. My brother's property has fantastic cover and food sources except his place is much farther away from ag. Guess where all the does want to be. The better his place gets the fewer mature bucks he sees. Now I'm about to get my place logged and it's got me scared to death it's going to attract a bunch of doe groups like his place has.

I wouldn't worry about it, unless you let the does get completely out of control. Although I can't use this year as a good example because of the weird change in patterns due to the drought, the two years previous ARE good examples. During those years our doe/fawn population more than doubled, and summer buck population dropped to near nil. Yet during the season, bucks flooded in. In 2020, we ended up censusing 47 unique bucks during the season (including 5 mature bucks), and in 2021, 49 (3 mature bucks).

 

[MUP]

I wouldn't worry about it, unless you let the does get completely out of control. Although I can't use this year as a good example because of the weird change in patterns due to the drought, the two years previous ARE good examples. During those years our doe/fawn population more than doubled, and summer buck population dropped to near nil. Yet during the season, bucks flooded in. In 2020, we ended up censusing 47 unique bucks during the season (including 5 mature bucks), and in 2021, 49 (3 mature bucks).

Doe sink scenario we talked about several years ago? I've seen that scenario play out time and time again after I learned what to watch for. I get really excited when I see mostly does on my tcams, and few young bucks with no older ones showing up early.

 

[JArender]

the number of properties i've managed both big and small over the past 20-25 years has taught me three things. Age alone does not equal giants, neighbors will kill bucks you pass, and unless you have several square mile blocks combined be happy knowing you will not see a huge majority of the deer you pass reach their potential!

I had a 2.5 yo 13 point in the 140 class last year get killed when he followed a doe across the river. the hunter was extremely excited, it was his best deer. that was the type deer that makes 160-180 and had the genitics of a 168 killed on my farm in 2019. This year I had two 3.5 yo deer in the 135 range. one is back on my farm for the past 3-4 weeks and will make it if he gets past this weekend. the other was shot by a guy across the road. He said he thought it was a 150 when he shot it and was disappointed and just cut the horns off at the bases and tossed them in his shed antler pile! it happens. I can only control what happens on my farm and it took forever for me to learn and accept that. haha. Management of small farms is a hobby at best. if you take it to serious you will kill you enjoyment of hunting!

The biggest trend i'm seeing in my current area that's hurting the age structure the most is blocks of land being split into smaller tracts of 20,30,40,and up. 150 across the road that had one hunter is now two 70s with 4-5 hunters. a 200 acre with three hunters is now three 50s a 10 a 35 and a 5ac tracts with 5 hunters plus guest and the 50 ac tracts actually changes as it's leased eac year. owner said he doesn't care if it's one guy or 10. he gets 7000 for it he says??? and there is more in my 5-10 square mile area i'm sure, but these are in direct contact with my property and span a few miles down the main ridge above the tradewater river valley. It's affected me the last two years, i mean we all want to kill deer right!

but in honesty it's probably been better for the long term. My deer density was way to high. Hopefully my plots and cover continue to hold the meanest baddest big buck in area each year haha. if it doesn't that's ok. I don't need to kill a deer to eat and I have way plenty hanging on the wall. my goal is to kill a mature deer every 3-5 years. 5-6 if my son shoots one too. when I bought my property it had three guys hunting it.

When I sell my property, if I ever do, i'll likely split it out too to maximize my gains to buy that kanas or iowa ground I want so bad in my lifetime so i can't get upset and worry about what's happening around me. life is to short to bother with things that you don't control.

 

[BSK]

The biggest trend i'm seeing in my current area that's hurting the age structure the most is blocks of land being split into smaller tracts of 20,30,40,and up. 150 across the road that had one hunter is now two 70s with 4-5 hunters. a 200 acre with three hunters is now three 50s a 10 a 35 and a 5ac tracts with 5 hunters plus guest and the 50 ac tracts actually changes as it's leased eac year. owner said he doesn't care if it's one guy or 10. he gets 7000 for it he says??? and there is more in my 5-10 square mile area i'm sure, but these are in direct contact with my property and span a few miles down the main ridge above the tradewater river valley. It's affected me the last two years, i mean we all want to kill deer right!

I think it really depends on where your property is. Back before East TN had a huntable deer population, my county would be flooded with hunters from East TN. Opening weekend of gun season sounded like a war zone. It was common to hear over 100 gunshots opening weekend alone. Now, hunter densities have declined dramatically. The hotels at the closest Interstate exit are empty of hunters, even for opening weekend of gun. This year, during the entire two weeks of MZ season, we might have heard three gunshots. A very, VERY different scenario than 20 years ago.

 

[BSK]

One thing for the people thinking about pulling the trigger on your own ground. It is one of the best investments you will ever have and worth every day of blood sweat and tears and worth every single penny. If you think you can do it jump in with both feet. I firmly believe you won't regret it.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[BSK]

Plots are good, but….
Would like to see what others here think about native seed bank quality and growing quality bucks

Studies have shown, no matter how much food plot or agriculture you have, more than 50% of a deer's diet in summer will be weeds. Several species of weed are nearly as nutritious as soybeans.

And as for the effectiveness of food plots, we did a couple of studies with large tracts of unimproved land (mainly hardwoods and pine plantations) and found that it took 1% of the property converted to high-quality food plots before we saw a measurable biological response. But it took 10% converted to agriculture/food plots before improvements were dramatic (major improvements on body and antler size). Of course, so much depends on local situations. For example, what if most of the bucks you will have during hunting season don't live on your property in summer? Then food plots are doing nothing to improve those bucks. Although, even in that situation, food plots would definitely improve any local does and fawns.

 

[BSK]

My property isn't far from there, as the crow flies.

I had no idea. Tough country. But some big deer in the Gulfs.

 

[BSK]

You may ask what is my problem, I haven't seen or have pics(5 cameras) of a buck I'd shoot this year yet. I have some mature bucks but I don't want to waste a tag on them because they wouldn't score 90 points and that's stretching it. Can be very frustrating

I wouldn't base too much on a single year's experiences/data. My place regularly produces 140+ mature bucks, yet this year we haven't gotten a picture of a buck that would break 120. Just an extremely odd year.

 

[BSK]

Here's where I kind of had to put my foot in my mouth. Our guys were worried all summer about how we didn't have any good bucks. I explained to them our habitat is so much better now and the does are dominant during the fawning process - DON'T WORRY - they will show up come fall, around late Oct - first of Nov. Well, this year they never came. Our guys were looking to me for answers and I still don't have one. I just don't even know how to explain it or where to start. I'm just glad we aren't the only ones that saw what we saw this year - from reading on here and hearing from folks. Hoping for a big rebound next year!

Just tell them EVERYBODY in the area is having a weird year. What you/they experienced has been VERY common in the region.

 

[JArender]

I think it really depends on where your property is. Back before East TN had a huntable deer population, my county would be flooded with hunters from East TN. Opening weekend of gun season sounded like a war zone. It was common to hear over 100 gunshots opening weekend alone. Now, hunter densities have declined dramatically. The hotels at the closest Interstate exit are empty of hunters, even for opening weekend of gun. This year, during the entire two weeks of MZ season, we might have heard three gunshots. A very, VERY different scenario than 20 years ago.

I hunt in a cwd zone in Northern MO and prior to three or four years ago the hotel I stay at you'd have to book two years in advance. now you can get a room the day you drive up. I hunt an iowa watch or management zone whatever they call it and over the last several year we have far fewer non residents and out of zone in staters. to a lot of guys it just isn't worth the hassle. CWD IMO is hurting small towns. look at land sales in areas with cwd. i'd be willing to bet properties are sitting on the market longer than ever in hot zones and but that's just a guess. most guys I know won't buy property in a cwd zone and hesitate to buy in one or two counties over. I backed out of deals in humphreys county due to cwd being close. is it there yet?

 

[MUP]

Studies have shown, no matter how much food plot or agriculture you have, more than 50% of a deer's diet in summer will be weeds. Several species of weed are nearly as nutritious as soybeans.

And as for the effectiveness of food plots, we did a couple of studies with large tracts of unimproved land (mainly hardwoods and pine plantations) and found that it took 1% of the property converted to high-quality food plots before we saw a measurable biological response. But it took 10% converted to agriculture/food plots before improvements were dramatic (major improvements on body and antler size). Of course, so much depends on local situations. For example, what if most of the bucks you will have during hunting season don't live on your property in summer? Then food plots are doing nothing to improve those bucks. Although, even in that situation, food plots would definitely improve any local does and fawns.

This brings up another good point, at least for my small property. I have no doubt that my hunting has benefited from the ag plots from surrounding leases. My neighbor even has corn and turnips planted on his property. My property acts as almost a wooded sanctuary for them to stage in, and for does to have their young in good cover and with the water from the creeks. It's working well it seems.

 

[BSK]

If 2022 has taught me anything, it's that acorns are king! We have no ag around us, but we do have pines and clear cut bordering us. We are the only place around with oaks. When we have at least a mediocre acorn crop, the deer, including mature bucks are there.

You said a mouthful there brother!

One of the main reasons we've done so much habitat work is to try and draw more deer to our acorn-heavy property in years with a poor acorn crop. And if 2020 was any indication (a poor acorn crop year), the answer is, we can. But in completely acornless years, the answer may be, we cannot. Thankfully, completely acornless years are pretty rare. I grade every year's acorn crop on a scale of 0 to 10. Zero being absolutely no acorns at all, and 10 being a bumper acorn crop where the ground is covered everywhere. In the 36 years I've been keeping track, I've given the acorn crop a zero only four times. 2020 was only graded a 1, but with all our other habitat work, we were able to draw a lot of bucks in during the season. So basically, assume you're going to have a crap year about once every 9-10 years due to a complete acorn failure.

 

[BSK]

I hunt in a cwd zone in Northern MO and prior to three or four years ago the hotel I stay at you'd have to book two years in advance. now you can get a room the day you drive up. I hunt an iowa watch or management zone whatever they call it and over the last several year we have far fewer non residents and out of zone in staters. to a lot of guys it just isn't worth the hassle. CWD IMO is hurting small towns. look at land sales in areas with cwd. i'd be willing to bet properties are sitting on the market longer than ever in hot zones and but that's just a guess. most guys I know won't buy property in a cwd zone and hesitate to buy in one or two counties over. I backed out of deals in humphreys county due to cwd being close. is it there yet?

Not here yet, but it will get here eventually.

And I'm not so sure it's CWD killing hunting, it's the state's response to it. Knocking out the deer population to "slow the spread" is - in my opinion - a bad idea and the wrong approach.

 

[BSK]

I own 32 acres. I have THOUGHT about it for the last 5-7 years but never get started, because of money, time, or both. I know I don't have a lot of space. I also know I won't hold bucks on my 32 acres. However aside from acorns and a 1 acre food plot I don't have much to offer.

You would be surprised at what can be accomplished on small properties. Perhaps you cannot "grow" a significant number of deer, but you can certainly "influence" deer to use your property more often as well as design habitat funnels that make for more consistent hunting success.

And as for not getting started, I remember when I first started collecting the huge mound of data I do every year. The first year or two I was thinking, "Why am I do this? This amount of data is meaningless." Now, 36 years later, that data is invaluable. The years add up fast!

 

[Ski]

You would be surprised at what can be accomplished on small properties. Perhaps you cannot "grow" a significant number of deer, but you can certainly "influence" deer to use your property more often as well as design habitat funnels that make for more consistent hunting success.

And as for not getting started, I remember when I first started collecting the huge mound of data I do every year. The first year or two I was thinking, "Why am I do this? This amount of data is meaningless." Now, 36 years later, that data is invaluable. The years add up fast!

That's 100% on point. Most of us own smaller properties. It's not only doable on a small place. It can make an enormous difference.

 

[hbg1]

Interesting - 600 acres in between ag seems like a dream. What county and do you have any producing oaks? If 2022 has taught me anything, it's that acorns are king! We have no ag around us, but we do have pines and clear cut bordering us. We are the only place around with oaks. When we have atleast a mediocre acorn crop, the deer, including mature bucks are there. 90" mature deer just doesn't make sense to me

Wayne county, we do have lots of producing oaks just not this year, zero acorns

 

[hbg1]

How about winter and fawning food? And how close is good cover to the edges of the ag? Sounds like plenty property for does and bucks both.

Abundance of food and cover year round

 

[hbg1]

I wouldn't base too much on a single year's experiences/data. My place regularly produces 140+ mature bucks, yet this year we haven't gotten a picture of a buck that would break 120. Just an extremely odd year.

That just doesn't seem possible to me. I figured a buck had a core area regardless of circumstances, especially a mature buck. My 600 acres is probably the least pressured land around me and it has food, cover, and water???

 

[dr]

I bought 73 acres 25 years ago on the plateau. .It was all open forest, with a creek, and hunting was tough... Over the years I've built ponds, and food plots . That helped quite a bit, but then deer sightings started to decline. This happened about the time timber was cut on the adjoining property. I bought a book by Neil, and Craig Dougherty titled Grow Em Right. One chapter talks about using a chainsaw to drop all the trees in approx. One acre sized areas, scattered over the property to create browse, and cover. I did this on a hill about ten years ago, and deer began bedding there. For about 5 years buck sitings went up. Now they've declined again. I attribute part of this to an increase In the bear population ,but also the lack of cover.The Dougherty brothers recommend clear cutting new one acre areas about every 10 years, or when deer sightings start to decline. I'm going to try and get a logger to do that this year. Cover is King...I highly recommend the book.