Managing your own land

[Shooter77]

One thing for the people thinking about pulling the trigger on your own ground. It is one of the best investments you will ever have and worth every day of blood sweat and tears and worth every single penny. If you think you can do it jump in with both feet. I firmly believe you won't regret it.

Very true! I waited almost 20 years to pull the trigger when I bought my 29.5 acres in June '21. I hunted on it since 1995, the owners offered to sale it in 1999 then backed out. I think all the time of the things I could have done 5, 10, 15 years ago to this land to make it better for my dad and kids to hunt. It's lots of work, but well worth the fun.

 

[Ski]

That just doesn't seem possible to me. I figured a buck had a core area regardless of circumstances, especially a mature buck. My 600 acres is probably the least pressured land around me and it has food, cover, and water???

Oh it's possible. Doesn't matter if you have 6 or 6000 acres. If an older buck doesn't feel comfortable he'll vacate the premises. The three biggest things that make him uncomfortable are momma does, a bunch of brats running around, and humans. All he needs is peace & quiet, a tucked away, remote, ignored island that no other deer nor humans pay any attention to. Whether public or well managed private, that's where I find big old bucks. Just like us, an old buck appreciates solitude. I don't know your hunting habits so excuse me if I'm out of line, but I would push a little deeper and take a look at some otherwise ignored areas before getting too nervous about bucks being gone. I like the odds that you still got some tanks on your place somewhere. 600 acres of cover sandwiched between ag sounds like deer heaven.

 

[BSK]

I bought 73 acres 25 years ago on the plateau. .It was all open forest, with a creek, and hunting was tough... Over the years I've built ponds, and food plots . That helped quite a bit, but then deer sightings started to decline. This happened about the time timber was cut on the adjoining property. I bought a book by Neil, and Craig Dougherty titled Grow Em Right. One chapter talks about using a chainsaw to drop all the trees in approx. One acre sized areas, scattered over the property to create browse, and cover. I did this on a hill about ten years ago, and deer began bedding there. For about 5 years buck sitings went up. Now they've declined again. I attribute part of this to an increase In the bear population ,but also the lack of cover.The Dougherty brothers recommend clear cutting new one acre areas about every 10 years, or when deer sightings start to decline. I'm going to try and get a logger to do that this year. Cover is King...I highly recommend the book.

The Dougherty's are great guys. Worked with and hung out with them numerous times. But you also have to remember they are from the North, where forest growth rates are much slower. It doesn't surprise me at all that sightings began to decline after 5-6 years. That's about the timber cycle I recommend (cutting small patches every 5-6 years) because of our local, more rapid growth rates.

Funny, talking to "Yankee" land managers, they don't believe me when I tell them some of the Deep South timber producers - using the best methods available - are growing pine to lumber-size in 15 years. They don't believe that's possible, but I've seen it many times.

 

[dr]

The Dougherty's are great guys. Worked with and hung out with them numerous times. But you also have to remember they are from the North, where forest growth rates are much slower. It doesn't surprise me at all that sightings bean to decline after 5-6 years. That's about the timber cycle I recommend (cutting small patches every 5-6 years) because of our local growth rates.

Yes, that's my plan. The neighbor owns 140 acres, and had it heavily timbered about 10 years ago. It turned into a jungle. I believe most of the deer are staying on his property. Thanks

 

[hbg1]

Oh it's possible. Doesn't matter if you have 6 or 6000 acres. If an older buck doesn't feel comfortable he'll vacate the premises. The three biggest things that make him uncomfortable are momma does, a bunch of brats running around, and humans. All he needs is peace & quiet, a tucked away, remote, ignored island that no other deer nor humans pay any attention to. Whether public or well managed private, that's where I find big old bucks. Just like us, an old buck appreciates solitude. I don't know your hunting habits so excuse me if I'm out of line, but I would push a little deeper and take a look at some otherwise ignored areas before getting too nervous about bucks being gone. I like the odds that you still got some tanks on your place somewhere. 600 acres of cover sandwiched between ag sounds like deer heaven.

There certainly are areas that I never set foot on but that's on purpose, however I'd think I could at least get a picture of a mature shooter buck. he's got to stick his nose out sometime.

 

[RockMcL]

IMO 32 acres is plenty enough to create a great hunting property. Sure it's not going to "hold" a bunch of deer but it can be a place some deer spend daylight hours because of cover habitat, browse, and nearby food. It's especially true if there's a lot of hunting pressure in nearby properties.

How big are the cedars? Are any large enough to be marketable? That could be a way to get some thinning and some openings made, while putting money in your pocket. As for the pond, you might look into Bentonite. It's a powder that bonds to the soil & seals the pond from leaking. I'm not sure what you've got exactly going on with it but if it's a leak that stuff could be an easy cheap fix. Or maybe bury one of the plastic tanks. It's how I add water to my place. It works.

Cedars often are an indication of solid rock with minimal soil cover. Leaky ponds/water spots are another indicator of same. Just be aware & investigate before trying to create something that will not be supported by the soil.

With that said I recently found a bunch of young red oaks flourishing under slow growth cedars. Deer are on them now... These oaks will never thrive but they are nut bearing and spreading so will work to give them a little more sun this spring. In my case clearing too much would be a waste of time and money because of soil depth. Your situation will vary.

in the last 5 years the cedar thicket has developed both the acorn sources and at the transition from rocky top to well soiled slope has developed a substantial persimmon patch. All without my assistance. If we had caught it earlier it might be better.

Just finding the persimmons gave my son a couple chances on a real lifetime giant this year. Frankly if he was hunting with crossbow instead of compound he would have gotten it. Busted while drawing twice and no more daylight bruiser. (No judgements on weapon choice.)

Scout scout scout and encourage what nature starts on its own as well as long term plan/development.

 

[RockMcL]

This year we had an okay meat year but only one mature buck down (so far). BUT we learned a lot this year. On one property my main food plots, path plots, and mineral licks were destroyed by neighbors cattle and wild dogs harassed the deer also. This taught me several valuable lessons.
1. I had no idea just how big a draw the mineral licks were for both bucks and does. I've maintained them for so long I took them for granted.
2. Just because I don't run cattle doesn't mean I can ignore common fence lines. I have good neighbors but stuff happens.
3. Pet stuff happens and we can work with that. Only minor impacts to hunting come from good neighbors new dogs teaching their owners how to manage their dog fencing. Wild dogs on the other hand are funny colored coyotes.

The other property taught me:
1. I have to catch & prosecute trespassers, thieves, and poachers.
2. Big bucks are just cause for trespassing. After all, you deserve that big guy even if he is not on your property,,, A$$#0le... Smile brother when you come back, working to make ya famous...
3. On the positive side this property has blossomed largely on its own and recent all men on deck family scouting has us drafting/revising short term & long term planning.

So for me, what I didn't like about this year I learned from. Late January chainsaws get fired up. Some tree/shrubs go in this week, more trees in Feb/Mar. Fence verified and/or bolstered before food plots this year and watering improvements on both properties.
Looking forward to seeing what challenges come next year.

Right this moment, shush the keypad. Whats behind those does....

 

[Shooter77]

BSK and others, how do you develop plans when you work on a new place? I've watched a lot of these habitat consultants and it's not clear how they come up with a plan. Some say cut this and plant this, while others say only do this or that. Very different opinions on what works. How long do you let changes take effect before deciding if you need to change what's being done? How does everyone measure success with their property?

 

[Crappieaddict]

All of this is valuable information. One question, my woods have a LOT of Loblolly Pines. They regularly fall or get blown over, especially on ridge tops. Some areas are literally impassable, at least for humans. Should these be cleaned up or left as is?

 

[Ski]

BSK and others, how do you develop plans when you work on a new place? I've watched a lot of these habitat consultants and it's not clear how they come up with a plan. Some say cut this and plant this, while others say only do this or that. Very different opinions on what works. How long do you let changes take effect before deciding if you need to change what's being done? How does everyone measure success with their property?

IMO, everybody has ideas and in large part they all work. Deer are incredibly adaptive & will respond well to most habitat enhancements. A lot of habitat work can be reversed or altered/tweaked if it's not doing what you want it to do. Cutting timber is pretty permanent but everything else can be played with.

For most things you'll see results pretty much immediately. It may take a year or two or more to show full potential but you'll see some level
of results right away.

I measure success on how the deer react. Does the mock scrape get hit often by multiple deer of all age & sex structures? If so then it is a success.If they ignore it or outright avoid it then I take it down. Do they like this clover or those peas? If so then I'll plant it again. If not I'll try something else next time. On most things you notice a pretty immediate response, or at least within a season. I also gauge success by what I'm seeing while hunting and/or trail cams. Trail cams running before habitat improvements and after will show you exactly what works and what doesn't.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

I measure success on how the deer react. Does the mock scrape get hit often by multiple deer of all age & sex structures? If so then it is a success.If they ignore it or outright avoid it then I take it down. Do they like this clover or those peas? If so then I'll plant it again. If not I'll try something else next time. On most things you notice a pretty immediate response, or at least within a season. I also gauge success by what I'm seeing while hunting and/or trail cams. Trail cams running before habitat improvements and after will show you exactly what works and what doesn't.

Only thing I'll add to this, is don't just try something once, try it maybe two years in a row (or 2 years in general). For example, I experimented quite a few things this year different from years past. I didn't get the results I was hoping for, BUT the only reason I think I didn't get my expected results was because it was just such an odd year. Bucks just never showed up in their fall shifts (to our property like they do 95% of the time). So, everything that seemed to have failed this year didn't really "fail". They never even had a chance to succeed. I will be doing most of these new tactics again next year. If the bucks show up and they fail, I'll discard. If they succeed, I'll know my answer.

 

[BSK]

BSK and others, how do you develop plans when you work on a new place? I've watched a lot of these habitat consultants and it's not clear how they come up with a plan. Some say cut this and plant this, while others say only do this or that. Very different opinions on what works. How long do you let changes take effect before deciding if you need to change what's being done? How does everyone measure success with their property?

I'm going to think on that answer for a bit. Lots to say on that topic. But I can tell you right now, the best thing to do is get a lot of experiencing seeing different techniques, never believe you have all the answers, and spend as much time as you can talking to others who eat, sleep and breath this stuff. I learn new things every year from many TNdeer users. I don't just come to this site to give knowledge/experience. I come here to learn.

 

[Henry]

I'm going to think on that answer for a bit. Lots to say on that topic. But I can tell you right now, the best thing to do is get a lot of experiencing seeing different techniques, never believe you have all the answers, and spend as much time as you can talking to others who eat, sleep and breath this stuff. I learn new things every year from many TNdeer users. I don't just come to this site to give knowledge/experience. I come here to learn.

I'm interested in the same info. Yes, just read all four pages of this thread. Bought our 200 acres 13.5 months ago. Someone else owns 400 acres untouched, unhunted, not lived on on one side, fields on another side, year round creeks run through it, has farm/hunting pressure on the third side with more fields a little ways off and our house toward the 4th side with what seems some days to be an entirely different deer population on the other side of our cabin that's on a knoll (fields, woods, water) where doe and fawns were plentiful this summer (triplets). An area on the furthest corner of our property that's in the middle of all the quiet unhunted area has a beaver lodge/dam, low lands, and is hard to get in and out of. Our property is known as having been the premiere hunting land in the area until the man who set it all up passed away 6 years ago. There are 3 deer blinds on 3 different 4-7 acre cleared areas that were farmed fields until 2 years ago. His wife didn't do anything for 5 years and we didn't do anything this past year.

I know nothing about deer land and after the 3rd video on youtube I was confused and knew even less.

 

[Swampster]

One thing for the people thinking about pulling the trigger on your own ground. It is one of the best investments you will ever have and worth every day of blood sweat and tears and worth every single penny. If you think you can do it jump in with both feet. I firmly believe you won't regret it.

You would really have to over pay a lot or have some really bad luck not to be financially in the black ten, twenty years down the road.

 

[Ski]

I'm going to think on that answer for a bit. Lots to say on that topic. But I can tell you right now, the best thing to do is get a lot of experiencing seeing different techniques, never believe you have all the answers, and spend as much time as you can talking to others who eat, sleep and breath this stuff. I learn new things every year from many TNdeer users. I don't just come to this site to give knowledge/experience. I come here to learn.

That's my favorite thing about this place. I can bounce ideas, questions, and experiences off others and have superbly insightful conversation. I've learned more from yall than I ever would have figured out on my own. It's not only learning new things, but learning new perspectives of the how, why, and what to expect afterwards in terms of how the earth responds. This place is a wealth of information.

 

[Ski]

I know nothing about deer land and after the 3rd video on youtube I was confused and knew even less.

Sounds like you bought an incredible place. Congrats! Don't let the YouTube stuff confuse you too much. Everyone has their own perspective and preferred methods and IMO they're all correct so long as they're achieving the desired result.

Overall I'd suggest just getting out there and working some ground. Begin light with mock scrapes, maybe some small plots, using pruning sheers to clear some paths, stuff like that. Anything specific you have questions about, just ask. Start a thread and you'll get plenty answers. There's a QDM specific forum on this site that is exactly the stuff you're looking for. Take it slow, start easy, ask questions, and before you know it you'll have found yourself in a whole new hobby.

 

[BSK]

BSK and others, how do you develop plans when you work on a new place? I've watched a lot of these habitat consultants and it's not clear how they come up with a plan. Some say cut this and plant this, while others say only do this or that. Very different opinions on what works. How long do you let changes take effect before deciding if you need to change what's being done? How does everyone measure success with their property?

The original question was how I develop a habitat plan. Secondly, why are so many plans from different habitat consultants different?

Habitat management is both a science and an art. The science part of it is knowing what deer need habitat-wise. This is the kind of stuff you can learn from a multitude of research projects on the topic. You can read the research yourself or have it taught to you in college. In addition, a habitat consultant needs to understand different deer needs in different parts of the country. What's most important to deer in Michigan or New York State is not the same as what deer need most in Tennessee. What deer need in Tennessee is not necessarily what deer need in South Alabama or northern Florida. Again, these are things that can be learned from the research.

The big differences between different managers' plans are in the "art" of habitat management. The art is combination of two factors: 1) balancing the needs of deer versus the needs of the hunters; and 2) designing plans to make hunting the deer you will be growing/improving/attracting easier to hunt (make their movements more predictable). What I mean when I say "the needs of deer versus the needs of hunters" is that the two may be different. What may be best for deer - property heavy towards impenetrable briers and thick cover - isn't great for hunting. All that cover would hold a huge number of deer but hunting them would be nearly impossible. A balancing act must be created between providing as much desirable habitat for the deer while still maintaining a very huntable property. And then there is arranging habitat to produce more predictable deer travel patterns. Knowing how to do this is can be a combination of science, art and personal experience.

It is this "art" of habitat management that produces so many different plans from different people. Each manager has different personal experiences they incorporate into their plans. In addition, some managers have put more research (collecting hard data) on the effectiveness of their plans over time hence are constantly updating the knowledgebase they're work from.

And although this may sound strange, I'm going to alter my habitat plans based on the skill level of the hunters/landowners I'm working for. If I believe the hunters are highly skilled at hunting that particular type of terrain and are currently killing the best bucks the property is currently producing, I will probably design a more aggressive habitat plan leaning towards deer needs. But if I get the feeling that a lot of the hunters'/landowners' problem is a lack of knowledge on how to hunt the property, I will spend more time on designing the plan to produce more predictable deer travel patterns and hunting locations. I hate to give away one of my secrets, but I've had several highly successful projects where 80% of the improvements were simply due to the amount of time I spent teaching the hunters how to hunt their own property. As I've said many times, I'm not a great hunter. But I've spent an inordinate amount of time designing and running research projects where the goal was to figure out how deer are moving across the landscape. Having a strong understanding of that is a huge factor in designing habitat plans that concentrate deer movement and make for better hunting locations.

 

[BSK]

On a side note, while going through Youtube habitat management videos, quickly skip those where the manager starts talking about altering the habitat to produce an exact buck travel route. I have to laugh every time I see a manager talk about how if you do this or that, you're going to get a buck to bed exactly here, and then walk exactly there, etc. No offense to those people, but they're deluding themselves. I've read or been part of too many projects with GPS-collared deer to believe any of that crap. In most environments, especially well managed habitat, deer are going to bed and move through many different locations on a weekly/monthly basis. If deer are bedding in the same location day after day, either you're in farm country with very limited cover, or the habitat is poorly managed.

 

[dr]

Oh it's possible. Doesn't matter if you have 6 or 6000 acres. If an older buck doesn't feel comfortable he'll vacate the premises. The three biggest things that make him uncomfortable are momma does, a bunch of brats running around, and humans. All he needs is peace & quiet, a tucked away, remote, ignored island that no other deer nor humans pay any attention to. Whether public or well managed private, that's where I find big old bucks. Just like us, an old buck appreciates solitude. I don't know your hunting habits so excuse me if I'm out of line, but I would push a little deeper and take a look at some otherwise ignored areas before getting too nervous about bucks being gone. I like the odds that you still got some tanks on your place somewhere. 600 acres of cover sandwiched between ag sounds like deer heaven.

I believe people would be surprised at the size of bucks that may be in their area. I knew this guy was frequenting my property for a couple years, because I found where he walked between sapplings several feet apart, and scraped them on the inside. But, never got pics, or actually saw him. My buddy killed him 5 years ago when he got caught following a hot doe. If not for the rut I suspect many mature bucks would never be taken. A friend told me a buck scoring 180 was taken in Cumberland Co. this year.

 

[BSK]

If not for the rut I suspect many mature bucks would never be taken.

You said a mouthful there, especially for us not-so-great hunters! As I've said many times, if it weren't for the rut, I would never kill a mature buck. And that's not to say a mature buck has to be chasing a doe to get killed around the rut. Personally, I've never done so. But it's the influence of the rut that gets mature bucks up and on their feet during daylight which is their downfall.