Managing your own land

[Shooter77]

The original question was how I develop a habitat plan. Secondly, why are so many plans from different habitat consultants different?

Habitat management is both a science and an art. The science part of it is knowing what deer need habitat-wise. This is the kind of stuff you can learn from a multitude of research projects on the topic. You can read the research yourself or have it taught to you in college. In addition, a habitat consultant needs to understand different deer needs in different parts of the country. What's most important to deer in Michigan or New York State is not the same as what deer need most in Tennessee. What deer need in Tennessee is not necessarily what deer need in South Alabama or northern Florida. Again, these are things that can be learned from the research.

The big differences between different managers' plans are in the "art" of habitat management. The art is combination of two factors: 1) balancing the needs of deer versus the needs of the hunters; and 2) designing plans to make hunting the deer you will be growing/improving/attracting easier to hunt (make their movements more predictable). What I mean when I say "the needs of deer versus the needs of hunters" is that the two may be different. What may be best for deer - property heavy towards impenetrable briers and thick cover - isn't great for hunting. All that cover would hold a huge number of deer but hunting them would be nearly impossible. A balancing act must be created between providing as much desirable habitat for the deer while still maintaining a very huntable property. And then there is arranging habitat to produce more predictable deer travel patterns. Knowing how to do this is can be a combination of science, art and personal experience.

It is this "art" of habitat management that produces so many different plans from different people. Each manager has different personal experiences they incorporate into their plans. In addition, some managers have put more research (collecting hard data) on the effectiveness of their plans over time hence are constantly updating the knowledgebase they're work from.

And although this may sound strange, I'm going to alter my habitat plans based on the skill level of the hunters/landowners I'm working for. If I believe the hunters are highly skilled at hunting that particular type of terrain and are currently killing the best bucks the property is currently producing, I will probably design a more aggressive habitat plan leaning towards deer needs. But if I get the feeling that a lot of the hunters'/landowners' problem is a lack of knowledge on how to hunt the property, I will spend more time on designing the plan to produce more predictable deer travel patterns and hunting locations. I hate to give away one of my secrets, but I've had several highly successful projects where 80% of the improvements were simply due to the amount of time I spent teaching the hunters how to hunt their own property. As I've said many times, I'm not a great hunter. But I've spent an inordinate amount of time designing and running research projects where the goal was to figure out how deer are moving across the landscape. Having a strong understanding of that is a huge factor in designing habitat plans that concentrate deer movement and make for better hunting locations.

Thank you! I started off last year just after I bought the place and rented a bobcat with brush mower. My property was 99% woods. I cut almost 2 acres of open areas to make plots and trails. This has provided some opportunities for my dad and kids to get shots. Not so great on increase of mature bucks for me.

If it was just me, I wouldn't have a problem leaning toward a more advance plan, but with my 74 y/o dad with health problems and 2 younger kids, my main focus for the next 5-10 years is make their experience better by seeing more deer and maybe shooting a 2.5 y/o buck. I'm good with killing a mature buck every 3-4 years if it means my dad and kids have great hunts. My dad shot a 2.5 7pt in ML, I was more excited then he was. First buck he's killed in 5 years. I'm good with better habitat for does and fawns to grow the herd. I feel it's gone done some over the last 5-8 years.

 

[Crappieaddict]

All of this is valuable information. One question, my woods have a LOT of Loblolly Pines. They regularly fall or get blown over, especially on ridge tops. Some areas are literally impassable, at least for humans. Should these be cleaned up or left as is?

My question got lost, so I'm bringing it back.
@BSK
@Ski

 

[BSK]

All of this is valuable information. One question, my woods have a LOT of Loblolly Pines. They regularly fall or get blown over, especially on ridge tops. Some areas are literally impassable, at least for humans. Should these be cleaned up or left as is?

What is impenetrable to people may be child's play to a deer. I've watched wide-antlered bucks run full tilt through cutovers that are so grown up in head high briers and vines that I can't physically force myself through it. On my own places, I've planted patches of loblolly pine for thermal cover in their earlier years of growth. But once they get 20+ years old, they do tend to suffer from blowdown either from wind or ice storms. However, even in these patches of blowdown, deer go through there like it's nothing to them. Personally, I would not "clean those areas up." I would leave them as areas where deer can go but hunters cannot. In fact, have numerous patches of habitat where hunters cannot go is a very good idea.

 

[Bone Collector]

Cedars often are an indication of solid rock with minimal soil cover. Leaky ponds/water spots are another indicator of same. Just be aware & investigate before trying to create something that will not be supported by the soil.

With that said I recently found a bunch of young red oaks flourishing under slow growth cedars. Deer are on them now... These oaks will never thrive but they are nut bearing and spreading so will work to give them a little more sun this spring. In my case clearing too much would be a waste of time and money because of soil depth. Your situation will vary.

in the last 5 years the cedar thicket has developed both the acorn sources and at the transition from rocky top to well soiled slope has developed a substantial persimmon patch. All without my assistance. If we had caught it earlier it might be better.

Just finding the persimmons gave my son a couple chances on a real lifetime giant this year. Frankly if he was hunting with crossbow instead of compound he would have gotten it. Busted while drawing twice and no more daylight bruiser. (No judgements on weapon choice.)

Scout scout scout and encourage what nature starts on its own as well as long term plan/development.

That's my issue. Want to clear some areas but it's rocky, crappy soil. Pond doesn't hold water for same reason. It's not real big so my hope is I may be able to line it or add material to help it.

There are oaks and persimmons in the main area I want to clear so my first thought is get the cedar out and try to help the ground get sunlight on it.

 

[Bone Collector]

BC
In my opinion
If you would have started this when you first bought your place you would be 5-7 yrs ahead of where you stand now . These kinds of projects and improvements take time to make a difference.
Quit talking about it and get your ass to work !!
You can't mess it up ! Watch , learn and DO !!!
Now go cut some trees down

I agree 100% procrastination and indecision have hamstrung me a bit. I'm already prepping my wife for costs and time commitments when season ends.

 

[DoubleRidge]

In fact, have numerous patches of habitat where hunters cannot go is a very good idea.

I absolutely agree with this statement...giving deer a place to go with no human pressure...creating a refuge or sanctuary area...or area's...no matter what size property you are managing...giving deer a place to go where they never receive any pressure is an excellent idea.

 

[Crappieaddict]

What is impenetrable to people may be child's play to a deer. I've watched wide-antlered bucks run full tilt through cutovers that are so grown up in head high briers and vines that I can't physically force myself through it. On my own places, I've planted patches of loblolly pine for thermal cover in their earlier years of growth. But once they get 20+ years old, they do tend to suffer from blowdown either from wind or ice storms. However, even in these patches of blowdown, deer go through there like it's nothing to them. Personally, I would not "clean those areas up." I would leave them as areas where deer can go but hunters cannot. In fact, have numerous patches of habitat where hunters cannot go is a very good idea.

Thank you for the advice, explanation, and saving me a lot of work!

 

[Team Browning]

It would. Love working for those guys.

I'm lucky enough to have family that live full time at Dunaway so I've been hunting there a time or 2. It's the model for what can be done with 6,000 acres and the financial backing and vision to turn it into a hunting and fishing paradise.

 

[dr]

Thank you! I started off last year just after I bought the place and rented a bobcat with brush mower. My property was 99% woods. I cut almost 2 acres of open areas to make plots and trails. This has provided some opportunities for my dad and kids to get shots. Not so great on increase of mature bucks for me.

If it was just me, I wouldn't have a problem leaning toward a more advance plan, but with my 74 y/o dad with health problems and 2 younger kids, my main focus for the next 5-10 years is make their experience better by seeing more deer and maybe shooting a 2.5 y/o buck. I'm good with killing a mature buck every 3-4 years if it means my dad and kids have great hunts. My dad shoot a 2.5 7pt in ML, I was more excited then he was. First buck he's killed in 5 years. I'm good with better habitat for does and fawns to grow the herd. I feel it's gone done some over the last 5-8 years.

I highly recommend an elevated box blind if you don't have one. I have 2 and want to build more. They keep your scent down, are comfortable, and allow you to see much farther, and stay longer.

 

[BSK]

I'm lucky enough to have family that live full time at Dunaway so I've been hunting there a time or 2. It's the model for what can be done with 6,000 acres and the financial backing and vision to turn it into a hunting and fishing paradise.

Thank you. I designed their habitat plan, and they've followed it well. I've told them they are the poster child for what can be accomplished when starting with low-quality habitat and turning it into something truly special. To be honest, what they've accomplished has FAR EXCEEDED even my optimism.

But to be honest, mapping that property was a nightmare. I have the greatest respect for hunters who deal with those gulfs, bluffs and laurel thickets.

 

[BSK]

I highly recommend an elevated box blind if you don't have one. I have 2 and want to build more. They keep your scent down, are comfortable, and allow you to see much farther, and stay longer.

I couldn't agree more. We now have 6 and I want more. They are perfect for observing large open areas - areas you know you will want to hunt for years to come. I used to be totally against them. They are so obvious. Then I watched deer react to them. They may freak out the first time they see them, but once that big box in the sky causes them no harm, the deer truly learn to ignore them.

And they absolutely DO keep your scent to a minimum.

 

[Ski]

My question got lost, so I'm bringing it back.

Dead falls are usually no problem. There are however situations where I see deer avoid. That's dead fall thickets where a straight line wind, microburst, or a tornado dropped a bunch of trees on one spot to leave a twisted mess of limbs & trunks. If the deer cannot go over a log and land on the ground, it won't go over at all. It has to have a place for its hooves to anchor when it lands. Jumping over one log to land on another just won't happen. If yours is like that then you can easily make a few chainsaw cuts to open some doors for deer to get in & out, as well as move around inside. You don't have to clean anything up. Just make it accessible if it's not already.

As soon as season ends I'd go into it to see if there are beds or browse or both going on. If there is then you've got nothing else to do except get out & stay out of it. However, if it's so piled up that it's more akin to a bon-fire pile than blow down area, and you have to search to see dirt, then you might consider opening a few holes and spider webbed hip width trails through it. And be sure there are multiple entry/exit openings so a deer can't be trapped once in there. They seem to prefer thickets with plenty escape routes.

 

[Ski]

On a side note, while going through Youtube habitat management videos, quickly skip those where the manager starts talking about altering the habitat to produce an exact buck travel route. I have to laugh every time I see a manager talk about how if you do this or that, you're going to get a buck to bed exactly here, and then walk exactly there, etc. No offense to those people, but they're deluding themselves. I've read or been part of too many projects with GPS-collared deer to believe any of that crap. In most environments, especially well managed habitat, deer are going to bed and move through many different locations on a weekly/monthly basis. If deer are bedding in the same location day after day, either you're in farm country with very limited cover, or the habitat is poorly managed.

100% spot on. I love some of those youtube videos because there truly is some valuable info being shared. But far too many of them speak in absolutes, and those kind of absolutes just don't exist in the deer world. I'm far from expert or pro level anything when it comes to this stuff but I've learned enough to understand that each property and situation is so incredibly different that no one size fits all approach can be applied. I've got two farms here in TN that I hut & habitat tinker with and even though they're less than 10mi apart, they require completely different approaches to both habitat and hunting tactics. I have also learned that I get my best success from learning what the deer are already doing and then making improvements that I feel will fit in and flow with what's already happening. Trying to reinvent the wheel doesn't ever seem to pan out.

 

[BSK]

...each property and situation is so incredibly different that no one size fits all approach can be applied. I've got two farms here in TN that I hut & habitat tinker with and even though they're less than 10mi apart, they require completely different approaches to both habitat and hunting tactics.

First thing I do with a new property is collect a list of all the things that are "right" about property and all of the factors that are limitations. And this list will rely heavily on not only the property's habitat but also the habitat of neighboring properties.

 

[Crappieaddict]

Dead falls are usually no problem. There are however situations where I see deer avoid. That's dead fall thickets where a straight line wind, microburst, or a tornado dropped a bunch of trees on one spot to leave a twisted mess of limbs & trunks. If the deer cannot go over a log and land on the ground, it won't go over at all. It has to have a place for its hooves to anchor when it lands. Jumping over one log to land on another just won't happen. If yours is like that then you can easily make a few chainsaw cuts to open some doors for deer to get in & out, as well as move around inside. You don't have to clean anything up. Just make it accessible if it's not already.

As soon as season ends I'd go into it to see if there are beds or browse or both going on. If there is then you've got nothing else to do except get out & stay out of it. However, if it's so piled up that it's more akin to a bon-fire pile than blow down area, and you have to search to see dirt, then you might consider opening a few holes and spider webbed hip width trails through it. And be sure there are multiple entry/exit openings so a deer can't be trapped once in there. They seem to prefer thickets with plenty escape routes.

Thank you! I will definitely follow these ideas!

 

[RockMcL]

Thank you! I will definitely follow these ideas!

Quick comment/safety note to infrequent chainsaw users:
"a twisted mess of limbs & trunks" implies a balance of dangerous stress, weight, and gravity has occurred. Sometimes it is easy to read what will happen when you cut something and often it isn't. Watch rebound on limbs cut free, bounce, and roll. Careful...always have an escape and a buddy .

 

[Ski]

Quick comment/safety note to infrequent chainsaw users:
"a twisted mess of limbs & trunks" implies a balance of dangerous stress, weight, and gravity has occurred. Sometimes it is easy to read what will happen when you cut something and often it isn't. Watch rebound on limbs cut free, bounce, and roll. Careful...always have an escape and a buddy .

Agreed ^. Be very careful. Fallen timbers and their branches are always under tension.

 

[Crappieaddict]

Quick comment/safety note to infrequent chainsaw users:
"a twisted mess of limbs & trunks" implies a balance of dangerous stress, weight, and gravity has occurred. Sometimes it is easy to read what will happen when you cut something and often it isn't. Watch rebound on limbs cut free, bounce, and roll. Careful...always have an escape and a buddy .

Great advice!

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Great stuff on this one and a wealth of knowledge! Ski, BSK, and others are giving valuable information! Thanks for sharing. I have a huge issue in my woods with all the fallen ash trees. It is a mess! I am going to cut some of them, and have already cut a dozen or so off of atv roads. As others have said, be careful cutting trees, especially dead ones such as the ash trees. Limbs falling iut on you can be deadly.
On to my question. When people look at thier timber management and habitat improvement projects, does anyone consider the vines? I am talking about the big vines, most call them wild grape vines but not sure what they are really. I try to have a day each year where i go and cut as many vines as i can. It is hard to keep up with. I will target ones growing in desirable trees mostly because they can choke them out. Is this a good practice or is it a waste of time?

 

[Ski]

Great stuff on this one and a wealth of knowledge! Ski, BSK, and others are giving valuable information! Thanks for sharing. I have a huge issue in my woods with all the fallen ash trees. It is a mess! I am going to cut some of them, and have already cut a dozen or so off of atv roads. As others have said, be careful cutting trees, especially dead ones such as the ash trees. Limbs falling iut on you can be deadly.
On to my question. When people look at thier timber management and habitat improvement projects, does anyone consider the vines? I am talking about the big vines, most call them wild grape vines but not sure what they are really. I try to have a day each year where i go and cut as many vines as i can. It is hard to keep up with. I will target ones growing in desirable trees mostly because they can choke them out. Is this a good practice or is it a waste of time?

Yes ash trees can be DEADLY when cutting dead standing trees because the grain structure allows them to break off at a 90*, so there's no warning noise from it twisting & peeling as it snaps. It'll just flat break straight across and fall. I've been two years cutting as many of my saw log ash & milling them into lumber before it all rots away. It's a chore. I feel like I'm in a race against time. I hate losing them but I'm getting plenty good lumber for siding, lathing, fencing, and woodwork tinkering. Having a sawmill sure is handy.

As for the vines, they are indeed grapes. And they can get HUGE. Don't ever cut a tree with vines still attached at the ground because they'll dictate where it falls regardless of how you hinged it. Get rid of them before dropping a tree. My state forester came to the property and instructed me on how to deal with them in terms of management. He said to cut them at both the ground and at chest height. This ensures you'll know it's been cut as you can clearly see the cut from a distance. One thing he insisted for wildlife was to leave vines alone in junk trees because the grapes are a critical food for birds and rodents. Literally every critter in the forest eats them. For any tree that is or potentially could become a timber value, cut the vines as instructed. He also said no herbicide necessary because once cut they're dead.

Here are a couple pics from this summer. I cut & milled dozens of dead ash and barely made a dent. Lots of work yet to do. The wood inside the big ones is beautiful, though! Rivals any of the rosewoods I've worked with from anywhere in the world. I used it for shed siding, and cherry for shed floor lol. When you're milling & building all at same time you use what you cut. Of course the old guys have to be present for supervisory & technical support