New Article on CWD by Dr. Alan Houston, Ames Plantation

[TheLBLman]

On the contrary LBLman, the easing of restrictions and added buck tags have kept me in the game one more year . . . .

Oh, I understand how this can short-term help you personally.
But how will you feel when bucks 3 1/2 or older are near non-existent?
How about the future of deer hunting, herd health, and everything about deer maybe 2 or 3 years from now?

When more people realize they can use rifles during what was "archery only",
and that the annual buck limit has been significantly increased, my concern is we're 2 or 3 years away from the type buck:doe ratios, and the type young buck age structure we experienced in the 1990's.

Whether or not the deer herd will either quickly become over-populated or decimated by disease is currently anyone's guess.

But a year or two down the road, many of us, likely yourself included, will switch from deer hunting in TN to either deer hunting in other states, or maybe not deer hunting any at all. And if you're not resident deer hunting in TN, you're not as likely to recruit some younger folks to replace you (as a deer hunter) once you've passed on.

These new CWD regs basically takes the deer management back to mainly buck-only regs of the 90's, but now on steroids since centerfire rifles replace bows & muzzleloaders.

What happens after 2 or 3 years of this?

 

[Jcalder]

Oh, I understand how this can short-term help you personally.
But how will you feel when bucks 3 1/2 or older are near non-existent?
How about the future of deer hunting, herd health, and everything about deer maybe 2 or 3 years from now?

When more people realize they can use rifles during what was "archery only",
and that the annual buck limit has been significantly increased, my concern is we're 2 or 3 years away from the type buck:doe ratios, and the type young buck age structure we experienced in the 1990's.

Whether or not the deer herd will either quickly become over-populated or decimated by disease is currently anyone's guess.

But a year or two down the road, many of us, likely yourself included, will switch from deer hunting in TN to either deer hunting in other states, or maybe not deer hunting any at all. And if you're not resident deer hunting in TN, you're not as likely to recruit some younger folks to replace you (as a deer hunter) once you've passed on.

These new CWD regs basically takes the deer management back to mainly buck-only regs of the 90's, but now on steroids since centerfire rifles replace bows & muzzleloaders.

What happens after 2 or 3 years of this?

Almost like the herd goes to what the east side deals with every year lol, with a "healthy" herd

 

[Antler Daddy]

On the contrary LBLman, the easing of restrictions and added buck tags have kept me in the game one more year and one more year and maybe one more year. I earned my buddy a free Sportsmans license last year, because I had two positive does. I can now hunt with a rifle during the velvet hunt and I sold my smokeless ML due to the elimination of that requirement. I can choose what size/age bucks or bucks I want to harvest. I can keep hunting all the way through January now. I've got a couple processor credits I can use. It's like Christmas morning wondering what new gifts the state will give us this year. The payback might be fewer mature bucks that is if CWD doesn't get them first.

it is nice to know that others are subsidizing hunting in the CWD zone. Whitetail welfare ...

 

[DoubleRidge]

I sincerely hope you're right and a decade from now we will be asking what "CWD". No one knows what CWD will do to the southern deer herd with a disease that is proximity specific. Our herd density is far greater than most places out west and our ground is different than the ground in the northeast. CWD seems to have spread farther and faster here than anywhere else. Half of our deer herd here on Ames has it and got there probably in only a decade. You could say we were blind until our chickens came home to roost. I don't know if the efforts from the state have done anything at all, but I know it's wrong not to try.

You do bring up a good point for when we compare Tennessee to other states in that the herd density is different in the south verses some of the western states.

But when we say "it seems to have" spread faster and farther than it has in other states.....we really can't say that with much certainty because we don't know when it first arrived?

And I'm truly not trying to pile on TWRA....I'm honestly not "anti-twra"...and I do appreciate them giving CWD attention, test stations, performing studies, trying to understand the disease, etc....and I support the no feeding or baiting, no mineral or salt licks, etc....I'll gladly follow those rules to aid in reducing the spread....it's the killing multiple bucks and destroying the age structure that I can't get on board with.

And I'm sure a decade from now CWD will still be on the radar.....I just hope we can come up with better ways to manage it as time goes on.

 

[gobblegrunt]

It's not so much the CWD we fear as the TWRA's ways of addressing the CWD.

I agree 100 percent with this. The method of kill them all to save them all is the most absurd strategy. Wisconsin tried this and it was a failure.

 

[fairchaser]

I agree 100 percent with this. The method of kill them all to save them all is the most absurd strategy. Wisconsin tried this and it was a failure.

How do you know it was a failure? Did it eliminate CWD? No. Did CWD not spread to other areas? No. Did it slow the spread? Maybe. I think if you asked the people in charge and they answered truthfully what the goal was, it would be to slow the spread until a cure was found or a more effective strategy was employed. In the case of Wisconsin, you could say it failed because nothing was found to stop it. But, the jury is still out here. I guess it comes down to how much faith you have in a permanent solution. Maybe something was discovered in Wisconsin that will result in a permanent solution. I believe that given enough time and dedication to a problem, we can come up with a solution. Keep fighting.

 

[gobblegrunt]

How do you know it was a failure? Did it eliminate CWD? No. Did CWD not spread to other areas? No. Did it slow the spread? Maybe. I think if you asked the people in charge and they answered truthfully what the goal was, it would be to slow the spread until a cure was found or a more effective strategy was employed. In the case of Wisconsin, you could say it failed because nothing was found to stop it. But, the jury is still out here. I guess it comes down to how much faith you have in a permanent solution. Maybe something was discovered in Wisconsin that will result in a permanent solution. I believe that given enough time and dedication to a problem, we can come up with a solution. Keep fighting.

My point is, TWRA should learn from other states mistakes instead of using the same strategies that did not work. I don't understand all this doom and gloom concerning CWD. You guys act as if the deer in TN are dropping like flies which is not the case. The deer herds in the Midwest are not extinct and they have been exposed to this since the 60's.

 

[timberjack86]

How do you know it was a failure? Did it eliminate CWD? No. Did CWD not spread to other areas? No. Did it slow the spread? Maybe. I think if you asked the people in charge and they answered truthfully what the goal was, it would be to slow the spread until a cure was found or a more effective strategy was employed. In the case of Wisconsin, you could say it failed because nothing was found to stop it. But, the jury is still out here. I guess it comes down to how much faith you have in a permanent solution. Maybe something was discovered in Wisconsin that will result in a permanent solution. I believe that given enough time and dedication to a problem, we can come up with a solution. Keep fighting.

I swear I think you enjoy the drama, the sky is not falling!! These other states have had it for years. Guess what? They still have deer and they are still hunting and killing deer. They still have people that travel to these states to hunt deer and elk. And many people still eat these deer Nature will eventually figure out a way to cope. Relax, hunt, enjoy the life and family we have been given. There's a whole lot more in life to worry about than a disease that has proven to not be the extinction of wild deer in other states.

 

[fairchaser]

I swear I think you enjoy the drama, the sky is not falling!! These other states have had it for years. Guess what? They still have deer and they are still hunting and killing deer. They still have people that travel to these states to hunt deer and elk. And many people still eat these deer Nature will eventually figure out a way to cope. Relax, hunt, enjoy the life and family we have been given. There's a whole lot more in life to worry about than a disease that has proven to not be the extinction of wild deer in other states.

I may seem alarmist to some. It's only because I'm in the middle of the hot zone. I've watched a QDM program that was written about in magazines for its success get completely scuddled and taken a thriving deer club down to barely enough members to survive. Maybe for the average deer hunter in TN who wants to go out a few times a year and see a deer and maybe kill a decent buck every few years and feed it to his family, CWD is no big deal.

 

[Andy S.]

The deer herds in the Midwest are not extinct and they have been exposed to this since the 60's.

CWD was first detected "east of the MS River" in the "Midwest" in "free ranging deer" in 2002. First in in Wisconsin, then in Illinois, near the Wisconsin border later that year.

 

[timberjack86]

I may seem alarmist to some. It's only because I'm in the middle of the hot zone. I've watched a QDM program that was written about in magazines for its success get completely scuddled and taken a thriving deer club down to barely enough members to survive. Maybe for the average deer hunter in TN who wants to go out a few times a year and see a deer and maybe kill a decent buck every few years and feed it to his family, CWD is no big deal.

I wouldn't say many on this site are average hunters, some just have different perspectives about deer hunting. I fully understand the qdma stance and what it means to some. I myself have never been big on it but I do enjoy shooting a large old buck every now in the. Who doesn't right? If qdma dies there's other ways to enjoy deer hunting. Get the family together head to the largest tract of public land around, camp, cook out, hunt together and just enjoy the time spent outdoors together. This is what deer hunting means to my family. It's a great time to spend together fill the freezer and if one of us kills a nice buck then it's automatic bragging rights till next season. CWD will never take that away from us. Twra may try by eradicating The deer herd but The deer herd is not going extinct from CWD. I have no problem eating CWD venison, but when it gets here if my family desires we will test it before they eat it. But regardless we will keep hunting and spending great time together and eating delicious venison until our time is up. The sky is not falling in Tennessee.

 

[BSK]

I may seem alarmist to some. It's only because I'm in the middle of the hot zone. I've watched a QDM program that was written about in magazines for its success get completely scuddled and taken a thriving deer club down to barely enough members to survive. Maybe for the average deer hunter in TN who wants to go out a few times a year and see a deer and maybe kill a decent buck every few years and feed it to his family, CWD is no big deal.

My question is, was it CWD that destroyed Ames or was it the biologists' response to the CWD that destroyed Ames? In my personal opinion, it was the Biologists' response.

I worked my ass off to help grow a small organization called the Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA, now National Deer Association [NDA]) into the big organization it became. But after they got big, I began to disagree with many of their changing philosophies, practices, and recommendations. Now I have almost nothing to do with them for a reason.

 

[gobblegrunt]

CWD was first detected "east of the MS River" in the "Midwest" in "free ranging deer" in 2002. First in in Wisconsin, then in Illinois, near the Wisconsin border later that year.

"Maybe" I "Should" have said the "WEST"..

 

[gobblegrunt]

I may seem alarmist to some. It's only because I'm in the middle of the hot zone. I've watched a QDM program that was written about in magazines for its success get completely scuddled and taken a thriving deer club down to barely enough members to survive. Maybe for the average deer hunter in TN who wants to go out a few times a year and see a deer and maybe kill a decent buck every few years and feed it to his family, CWD is no big deal.

Maybe It's not CWD that hurt the hunting on your property. Maybe It's the people pushing incentives to kill all the deer???

 

[TheLBLman]

My question is, was it CWD that destroyed Ames or was it the biologists' response to the CWD that destroyed Ames? In my personal opinion, it was the Biologists' response.

x 2

Furthermore, the deer management at Ames (when CWD hit) would be better labeled as "trophy" buck management than Quality Deer Management.

BEFORE CWD hit the Ames area, the deer herd had already been purposefully decimated by a kill the female deer possible trophy buck management program. What's ironic is that Ames had already greatly reduced the localized deer density well below what TWRA seems to be trying to currently achieve in the CWD counties.

Did the low deer density at Ames help or hurt when CWD hit?

"Quality" deer management was never about decimating deer herds.
It was all about promoting a "quality" herd health for a particular environment,
It was also about greatly improving that habitat & forage environment
so that more deer to exist in a state of "quality" herd health.

TWRA's response to CWD (in the CWD zoned counties) seems more the opposite of Quality Deer Management.

 

[fairchaser]

My question is, was it CWD that destroyed Ames or was it the biologists' response to the CWD that destroyed Ames? In my personal opinion, it was the Biologists' response.

I worked my ass off to help grow a small organization called the Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA, now National Deer Association [NDA]) into the big organization it became. But after they got big, I began to disagree with many of their changing philosophies, practices, and recommendations. Now I have almost nothing to do with them for a reason.

In my opinion it was CWD first and then some of the follow up practices exacerbated the problems. Here you have a very successful club killing mature bucks every year and for no apparent reason there was a decline. You ignore it for a couple years blaming other factors until finally you start finding dead deer and sick deer. No one knows what it is until the state starts testing and it's CWD. Nothing changes at first. Gradually you find more and more and realize how much is there and likely been there for years. The standards for what constitutes a shooter buck must be lowered and with the states desire to kill more deer especially bucks the tags get raised. Hunters start to leave due to being unwilling to pay high fees to kill smaller bucks. Eventually you have a smaller club shooting smaller deer and there is no minimum size. Kill what you want. QDM program is now dead and CWD killed it. Now it's just like any other club where members can shoot anything but some will hold out for more.

 

[fairchaser]

Maybe It's not CWD that hurt the hunting on your property. Maybe It's the people pushing incentives to kill all the deer???

In spite of the state pushing a kill em all agenda, Ames has killed fewer deer for the last several years due to fewer members and fewer deer killed per member.

 

[timberjack86]

In spite of the state pushing a kill em all agenda, Ames has killed fewer deer for the last several years due to fewer members and fewer deer killed per member.

I'm not big into clubs but is there not another club out your way you could join that would fit your needs?

 

[CBU93]

You guys that have yet to experience it first hand are just Monday morning quarterbacks. When it hits your areas in earnest, you will see. Hopefully, the measures the state is taking will help reduce the impact…and no one is killing all the deer…. Just all the deer in some areas.

As seen on some of the comments in this thread already show how wrong some of y'all are. Do t matter to me, I've basically given up deer hunting anyway. Due to the impact of CWD.

 

[gobblegrunt]

You guys that have yet to experience it first hand are just Monday morning quarterbacks. When it hits your areas in earnest, you will see. Hopefully, the measures the state is taking will help reduce the impact…and no one is killing all the deer…. Just all the deer in some areas.

As seen on some of the comments in this thread already show how wrong some of y'all are. Do t matter to me, I've basically given up deer hunting anyway. Due to the impact of CWD.

Are you finding dead deer laying around or something?