Regulation hypo (poll)

[Setterman]

A good conversation in the making mega

- Im not trying to project myself as holier just simply opening and eye at how ridiculous the idea of banning decoys and blinds are. For those that are just starting out, kids and ones with physical limitations either or both are useful. Blinds allow for movement and comfort, both are very important with kids. Decoys help bring birds in yes but are a great learning tool also. One can study what went wrong or right and what a bird's body posture and certain movements mean. Using either doesnt make one less of a hunter just as not using either makes one a better hunter. What makes you less of a hunter is hating and degrading a fellow hunter who is legally hunting the way they want to not like you want to. Its these type of hunters that are hurting hunting and hunting's future more than any anti hunting group can. Kids and new hunters read these types of post and just what does one think they take away from it? I'll bet it aint positive. I would be curious at how many "avid accomplished" turkey hunters got to be "avid accomplished" turkey hunters without decoys and such. I find it mind blowing how someone with a modern firearm and ammo, newest camo clothing, and calls can degrade another hunter for using a decoy.

As for my frustration, yes I am frustrated. It is sickening at how more and more common its getting to see hunters degrading others hunters while talking about how they care about hunting's future in the same sentence.

Where this completely falls apart in my eyes is the fact that for people like me and thousands of other turkey hunters we learned how to kill turkeys well before strutters and fans. In addition, myself and thousands of others learned to hunt in Alabama, where all decoys were illegal until roughly 10 years ago. All decoys! It didn't discourage new hunters, it didn't destroy the sport, of anything it made all of us learn the birds and how to hunt them using a call and gun. We didn't have crutch that made unkillable birds charge a set up, and remarkably we all figured it out to some degree. A very good case can be made that the population in Alabama has been nosediving since the legalization of decoys.

The massive issue with your view is that parents, and society now wants everything to be so easy for kids, just hand them a turkey to make sure they're happy. What happened to working for success? What happened to paying your dues even as a kid and earning that kill by having to sit still, make the right set up etc? It's gone because of mentalities like yours. Just give the kid an easy kill and snap a pic, there's zero effort and the whole goal is to make it as easy as possible. It's amazingly sad.

Keep your blind, heck keep your hen decoys those aren't the issue I feel is absolutely destroying our populations, making hunters worse, and not teaching anything at all to a kid other than how to shoot. Dump the strutters and fans, earn that kill, like a man.

 

[Andy S.]

Where this completely falls apart in my eyes is the fact that for people like me and thousands of other turkey hunters we learned how to kill turkeys well before strutters and fans. In addition, myself and thousands of others learned to hunt in Alabama, where all decoys were illegal until roughly 10 years ago. All decoys! It didn't discourage new hunters, it didn't destroy the sport, of anything it made all of us learn the birds and how to hunt them using a call and gun. We didn't have crutch that made unkillable birds charge a set up, and remarkably we all figured it out to some degree. A very good case can be made that the population in Alabama has been nosediving since the legalization of decoys.

The massive issue with your view is that parents, and society now wants everything to be so easy for kids, just hand them a turkey to make sure they're happy. What happened to working for success? What happened to paying your dues even as a kid and earning that kill by having to sit still, make the right set up etc? It's gone because of mentalities like yours. Just give the kid an easy kill and snap a pic, there's zero effort and the whole goal is to make it as easy as possible. It's amazingly sad.

Keep your blind, heck keep your hen decoys those aren't the issue I feel is absolutely destroying our populations, making hunters worse, and not teaching anything at all to a kid other than how to shoot. Dump the strutters and fans, earn that kill, like a man.

I could not agree more, you took the words out of my mouth. For the record, I have two daughters that I HOPE will enjoy the outdoors one day, maybe enjoy/take up hunting, and hopefully get a few kills under their belt eventually. With that said, there needs to be SOME level of effort, failure and reality along the way to make one enjoy it for what it is, THE HUNT!

 

[Pic IN the Casa]

I voted for two birds/no jakes. But I think youth should be able to shoot one jake a season.

 

[Roost 1]

Grill n man, once again you fail to see the big picture. It's not where once you saw thirty and now see 27, it's more like where once you saw 200 now you see none... the factual data has been given thru out several posts in this thread however I guess you choose to ignore or not believe. You can keep on being angry, but one of these days you will really be mad when u have no birds to hunt. Then, even the best decoys and blinds will do no good.

 

[megalomaniac]

Grill man...

The ethics of turkey hunting vs turkey killing is all about what's fair in the hunters eyes. For some reaping is fair to them. And that's fine by me if the resource were unlimited. Let all of them tag out the first 4 days of the season, then leave the woods for the rest of us for the next 5 weeks. Unfortunately, not only is the resource limited, but it is also declining. Numerous biologists have proven the direct correlation between populations and harvest numbers. No need to rehash that. What biologists failed to realize was that in the years we were killing a stable number of birds each year (the years of 30k to 36k), we were actually killing a larger percentage of the male population each spring. It's like walking on level ground inching toward a cliff. We finally fell off the cliff last year.

The resource can no longer sustain current methods and means of take. Some sacrifice must be made. And like roost said, it's not about seeing 27 birds when u used to see 30. It's about zero birds when there used to be 300 (that literally happened on one of my farms). Sure, it took a decade for that to happen, I was trying to warn the state back in the mid to late 2000s, but Noone wanted to listen.

As far as kids go, if you want to get kids hooked hunting, it's not about killing the bird, it's about the closeness and number of encounters. My kids would trade one kill where we hunted all day long and never saw or heard a single bird till the end of the day that we killed for another day where we were constantly in birds but unable to kill.

I agree war on predators needs to be declared. I actively hunt, call, shoot, and trap all of them.... but unless all the neighboring landowners do the same, you simply cannot make a difference.

I guess the bottom line is that it is frustrating for many of the traditional hunters who like to play the game see the meteoric rise in numbers of turkey killers who's number one priority is to tag out asap and brag on FB, especially when the resource is in danger.

Another question of ethics.... would you limb shoot a bird out of his roost tree you snuck in on in the dark? Why? For us, the thought would NEVER cross our minds. But most of us would be thrilled to shoot a limb hopper out of the tree later in the day that is so smart he comes most of the way to our calls, then flies up 75 yds out looking, strutting in the tree, and limb hopping right on in to 30 yards. Both are legal sure, but understanding the difference is what separates a turkey hunter from a killer.

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[Shanman]

I dont hunt in the middle or west, so I'm truly out of the loop other than the post on this forum. After reading so many post it is obvious that there is a problem and that changes are truly needed, like any game animal the means and methods of harvest have a direct impact. I have heard to many YOUNG men brag on killing more than the limit while reaping, so I understand the negative impact and personally hope the fans/strutters are done away with. Shortening the season on the front end makes good sense also, the hens need bred to sustain good numbers. Lowering the limit by just one bird would help, but you still have plenty of guys that don't care about limits unfortunately. I never would have known about the problem if it wasn't for this board, this is why I come here....to learn.
Mega, your last post was very well put.

 

[woodsman04]

Most of the avid true turkey hunters grew up where decoys were illegal and/or decoys weren't popular. Been illegal in Alabama for a long time until recently, which I'm sure had everything to do with money.

I know in the grand scheme of life turkey hunting and other sports aren't really important. The thing is it's teaching our young kids how to work for something than it to be hand given to them.
Yes blinds and decoys make it easier for the kids. We shouldn't be easy on our kids. We should be tougher on them to make them tougher. Not guarantee they get instant success?

Should kids automatically pass school, get college degrees, and good jobs without working for it? Heck no. Same can be said for hunting.

The only circumstance in where I think blinds and decoys should be used is for elderly or handicapped folks. I've seen some of the old school guys that have become handicapped try the blind decoy technique. All of them say they'd rather just not kill one if they can't do it the right way.




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[woodsman04]

A good conversation in the making mega

- Im not trying to project myself as holier just simply opening and eye at how ridiculous the idea of banning decoys and blinds are. For those that are just starting out, kids and ones with physical limitations either or both are useful. Blinds allow for movement and comfort, both are very important with kids. Decoys help bring birds in yes but are a great learning tool also. One can study what went wrong or right and what a bird's body posture and certain movements mean. Using either doesnt make one less of a hunter just as not using either makes one a better hunter. What makes you less of a hunter is hating and degrading a fellow hunter who is legally hunting the way they want to not like you want to. Its these type of hunters that are hurting hunting and hunting's future more than any anti hunting group can. Kids and new hunters read these types of post and just what does one think they take away from it? I'll bet it aint positive. I would be curious at how many "avid accomplished" turkey hunters got to be "avid accomplished" turkey hunters without decoys and such. I find it mind blowing how someone with a modern firearm and ammo, newest camo clothing, and calls can degrade another hunter for using a decoy.

As for my frustration, yes I am frustrated. It is sickening at how more and more common its getting to see hunters degrading others hunters while talking about how they care about hunting's future in the same sentence.

Where this completely falls apart in my eyes is the fact that for people like me and thousands of other turkey hunters we learned how to kill turkeys well before strutters and fans. In addition, myself and thousands of others learned to hunt in Alabama, where all decoys were illegal until roughly 10 years ago. All decoys! It didn't discourage new hunters, it didn't destroy the sport, of anything it made all of us learn the birds and how to hunt them using a call and gun. We didn't have crutch that made unkillable birds charge a set up, and remarkably we all figured it out to some degree. A very good case can be made that the population in Alabama has been nosediving since the legalization of decoys.

The massive issue with your view is that parents, and society now wants everything to be so easy for kids, just hand them a turkey to make sure they're happy. What happened to working for success? What happened to paying your dues even as a kid and earning that kill by having to sit still, make the right set up etc? It's gone because of mentalities like yours. Just give the kid an easy kill and snap a pic, there's zero effort and the whole goal is to make it as easy as possible. It's amazingly sad.

Keep your blind, heck keep your hen decoys those aren't the issue I feel is absolutely destroying our populations, making hunters worse, and not teaching anything at all to a kid other than how to shoot. Dump the strutters and fans, earn that kill, like a man.

Yep


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[Grill-n-man]

1st I would like to apologize. I had no idea that there are so many certified wildlife biologist on here. How do you find the time to travel this entire state putting in thousands of hours collecting data on nest sites, number of nest, number of eggs per average nest, percentage of eggs that hatch and the percentage of those that hatch that make it to breeding maturity, habitat lost, percentage lost to predators, predator population up or down or other food source availability to predators effecting predatation on nest and juveniles, floods, droughts, disease, hunter numbers up or down, hunter's time in field up or down, hunter access up or down, percentage of hunter per acre of available land up or down, hard or mild winter(s), spring plant growth, and just plain ole mother nature year after year. I cant imagine the data stashed away, it must fill hundreds of books. But thankfully after all those years of hard work it has been scientifically proven its not just decoys but decoys with fans that are the cause of said problem. Good job
Dont give a hoot hoot about Alabama. Why? Geographically its different than Tennessee as well as the issues their wildlife may or may not have. Best of my memory Alabama has had it good with deer and turkey far longer than Tennessee hence no comparison.
Hate to break the news but turkey hunters been using fans from their kills and even turkeys from a taxidermist to hunt turkeys far longer than decoys became the in thing.
Hate to break the news but the vast majority of hunters dont have access to enough land to run and gun. Well at least not the one's that enough respect for other hunters not to be walking around and thru the spot they are hunting. Around here we have names for that type of hunter who knowingly screws up another hunter's hunting.
And just so I am clear on the proven factual data results, decoy (especially fans) and blinds are a crutch but a shotgun with a $100 turkey specific choke loaded with turkey specific load and topped with fiber optic sight or a red dot or a scope while dressed in the latest clothes while wearing boots designed to keep your feet feeling good and dry while using a call that specifically mimics the sound of a turkey carried in a vest with lumbar support and built in back rest with enough pockets to keep everything neat and organized while driving the 4 door 4x4 with heat and air pulling the trailer with the 4x4 4wheeler on it just fresh from watching the you tube videos on how to be a better caller after coming back from NWTF convention to check out the latest and greatest and possibly picking up a few things aint?
One last note, I know im not a man's man because I have never not once in my life ever thought bad about how a kid is legally hunting nor how they are being legally showed to hunt especially thinking bad enough of them to openly belittle them. But just on the small chance a man's man happens to becoming this way to do this, pleaeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese let us know me so I and others can come watch the show ole dad, uncle, or grandpa is going to put on.

The truth to this post and a couple similar is nobody wants to truly figure the problem out and put the work into finding a logical solution to benefit us all. Just looking for fire and brimstone knee jerk reaction into having everyone hunt like me cause my way is the only correct way and all others are wrong. Wonder what one could truly find if half the time spent putting "bump for a good deal" was used instead for actual problem solving.

Oh I aint mad, stupid, or looking to stir the pot I just have my own ideas, reactions to certain things, and the ability (unlike some) to take it as good as I give It.
And that is all i got to say about this same ole song and same ole dance just a difference dance floor.

 

[poorhunter]

1st I would like to apologize. I had no idea that there are so many certified wildlife biologist on here. How do you find the time to travel this entire state putting in thousands of hours collecting data on nest sites, number of nest, number of eggs per average nest, percentage of eggs that hatch and the percentage of those that hatch that make it to breeding maturity, habitat lost, percentage lost to predators, predator population up or down or other food source availability to predators effecting predatation on nest and juveniles, floods, droughts, disease, hunter numbers up or down, hunter's time in field up or down, hunter access up or down, percentage of hunter per acre of available land up or down, hard or mild winter(s), spring plant growth, and just plain ole mother nature year after year. I cant imagine the data stashed away, it must fill hundreds of books. But thankfully after all those years of hard work it has been scientifically proven its not just decoys but decoys with fans that are the cause of said problem. Good job
Dont give a hoot hoot about Alabama. Why? Geographically its different than Tennessee as well as the issues their wildlife may or may not have. Best of my memory Alabama has had it good with deer and turkey far longer than Tennessee hence no comparison.
Hate to break the news but turkey hunters been using fans from their kills and even turkeys from a taxidermist to hunt turkeys far longer than decoys became the in thing.
Hate to break the news but the vast majority of hunters dont have access to enough land to run and gun. Well at least not the one's that enough respect for other hunters not to be walking around and thru the spot they are hunting. Around here we have names for that type of hunter who knowingly screws up another hunter's hunting.
And just so I am clear on the proven factual data results, decoy (especially fans) and blinds are a crutch but a shotgun with a $100 turkey specific choke loaded with turkey specific load and topped with fiber optic sight or a red dot or a scope while dressed in the latest clothes while wearing boots designed to keep your feet feeling good and dry while using a call that specifically mimics the sound of a turkey carried in a vest with lumbar support and built in back rest with enough pockets to keep everything neat and organized while driving the 4 door 4x4 with heat and air pulling the trailer with the 4x4 4wheeler on it just fresh from watching the you tube videos on how to be a better caller after coming back from NWTF convention to check out the latest and greatest and possibly picking up a few things aint?
One last note, I know im not a man's man because I have never not once in my life ever thought bad about how a kid is legally hunting nor how they are being legally showed to hunt especially thinking bad enough of them to openly belittle them. But just on the small chance a man's man happens to becoming this way to do this, pleaeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese let us know me so I and others can come watch the show ole dad, uncle, or grandpa is going to put on.

The truth to this post and a couple similar is nobody wants to truly figure the problem out and put the work into finding a logical solution to benefit us all. Just looking for fire and brimstone knee jerk reaction into having everyone hunt like me cause my way is the only correct way and all others are wrong. Wonder what one could truly find if half the time spent putting "bump for a good deal" was used instead for actual problem solving.

Oh I aint mad, stupid, or looking to stir the pot I just have my own ideas, reactions to certain things, and the ability (unlike some) to take it as good as I give It.
And that is all i got to say about this same ole song and same ole dance just a difference dance floor.

This reminds me of Harry Doyle in the movie major league ..."Juuust a bit outside".

Once again you e missed the plate on that fastball.

 

[TNReb]

For those of you that are so heavily against decoys... let me pose this question:

If turkeys were abundant here and population wasn't an issue, would you still be against decoys? I understand YOU don't want to use them - but would you still be against others using them?

 

[Setterman]

1st I would like to apologize. I had no idea that there are so many certified wildlife biologist on here. How do you find the time to travel this entire state putting in thousands of hours collecting data on nest sites, number of nest, number of eggs per average nest, percentage of eggs that hatch and the percentage of those that hatch that make it to breeding maturity, habitat lost, percentage lost to predators, predator population up or down or other food source availability to predators effecting predatation on nest and juveniles, floods, droughts, disease, hunter numbers up or down, hunter's time in field up or down, hunter access up or down, percentage of hunter per acre of available land up or down, hard or mild winter(s), spring plant growth, and just plain ole mother nature year after year. I cant imagine the data stashed away, it must fill hundreds of books. But thankfully after all those years of hard work it has been scientifically proven its not just decoys but decoys with fans that are the cause of said problem. Good job
Dont give a hoot hoot about Alabama. Why? Geographically its different than Tennessee as well as the issues their wildlife may or may not have. Best of my memory Alabama has had it good with deer and turkey far longer than Tennessee hence no comparison.
Hate to break the news but turkey hunters been using fans from their kills and even turkeys from a taxidermist to hunt turkeys far longer than decoys became the in thing.
Hate to break the news but the vast majority of hunters dont have access to enough land to run and gun. Well at least not the one's that enough respect for other hunters not to be walking around and thru the spot they are hunting. Around here we have names for that type of hunter who knowingly screws up another hunter's hunting.
And just so I am clear on the proven factual data results, decoy (especially fans) and blinds are a crutch but a shotgun with a $100 turkey specific choke loaded with turkey specific load and topped with fiber optic sight or a red dot or a scope while dressed in the latest clothes while wearing boots designed to keep your feet feeling good and dry while using a call that specifically mimics the sound of a turkey carried in a vest with lumbar support and built in back rest with enough pockets to keep everything neat and organized while driving the 4 door 4x4 with heat and air pulling the trailer with the 4x4 4wheeler on it just fresh from watching the you tube videos on how to be a better caller after coming back from NWTF convention to check out the latest and greatest and possibly picking up a few things aint?
One last note, I know im not a man's man because I have never not once in my life ever thought bad about how a kid is legally hunting nor how they are being legally showed to hunt especially thinking bad enough of them to openly belittle them. But just on the small chance a man's man happens to becoming this way to do this, pleaeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese let us know me so I and others can come watch the show ole dad, uncle, or grandpa is going to put on.

The truth to this post and a couple similar is nobody wants to truly figure the problem out and put the work into finding a logical solution to benefit us all. Just looking for fire and brimstone knee jerk reaction into having everyone hunt like me cause my way is the only correct way and all others are wrong. Wonder what one could truly find if half the time spent putting "bump for a good deal" was used instead for actual problem solving.

Oh I aint mad, stupid, or looking to stir the pot I just have my own ideas, reactions to certain things, and the ability (unlike some) to take it as good as I give It.
And that is all i got to say about this same ole song and same ole dance just a difference dance floor.

There's so many aspects of this that are so patently incorrect that I could write a novel in response.

Are decoys the only problem, heck no. But they are most certainly a massive problem and cause a massive numbers of birds to be killed that otherwise would survive hunters attempts. And you are partially correct some form of decoy has been around for eons. However, they're usage and availability weren't even close to as widespread as they are now. I've about decided that 60% or more birds that are killed are killed because of decoys. Sure some of those birds would get killed without but the majority wouldn't. Therefore reducing the gobbler population much more so than it would without.

Your worn out rant about guns, trucks, gasoline etc is just idiocy and bears no relevancy to this or any other logical conversation.

The fact remains there is a problem, the question is what variables can be controlled. Harvest, first and foremost. Start there and see what happens.

The vehement nature the pro decoy crowd employees when they're crutch is questioned reveals just how lost they'd be without their plastic pets.


Teach a kid to hunt and you've done something, teach a kid to shoot and you've done nothing but fan the flames of the instant gratification mindset of the new era. Good news is for you that for now you get to keep your flower pot to hunt behind and post your kills on Facebook. Maybe someday you'll come to regret not trying to understand what folks who've played this game for decades are trying to say

Good

 

[Setterman]

For those of you that are so heavily against decoys... let me pose this question:

If turkeys were abundant here and population wasn't an issue, would you still be against decoys? I understand YOU don't want to use them - but would you still be against others using them?

For me, yes. I think they take away from the true nature of this sport and cheapen it into target practice. If birds were everywhere as in the past there's plenty of chances to hunt them the correct way as there are more opportunities

 

[Roost 1]

Thinking out loud here... since some want factual data, can someone figure out when the "strutting" decoys really got popular and then go back and see how the harvest figures compared to years before that. I know it took a couple years for the $100 decoys to really catch on. I'm gonna guess it was around 2005 or 2006.
Thanks in advance to whomever wants to look this up and share it.

 

[ruger7mag]

Thinking out loud here... since some want factual data, can someone figure out when the "strutting" decoys really got popular and then go back and see how the harvest figures compared to years before that. I know it took a couple years for the $100 decoys to really catch on. I'm gonna guess it was around 2005 or 2006.
Thanks in advance to whomever wants to look this up and share it.

I'd say you are correct on your dates.

 

[woodsman04]

To me it isn't how any one hunts. I dont care if you do it legally or illegally. Makes no difference as long as you being illegal did not directly effect what I was doing.

I trout fish occasionally. I do not fly fish. I only trot fish in the Elk River where it is stocked trout. I give zero cares if someone tells me I'm not real trout fishing. But to me it's different because the trout are routinely stocked and they are In there everywhere. If I were fishing for wild trout in mountain creeks I may try fly fishing. Big difference. I deer hunt some. Bow and rifle. Mainly bow hunt because I enjoy it more. With deer I don't care what anyone else shoots with whatever weapon they use because where I'm from we have plenty of deer. I don't even consider myself a great deer hunter, I've never killed many true mature bucks.

What bothers me is the absolute inconsideration that there is a problem with our wild turkey populations in certain areas of the state. And the complete denial some guys have of routinely using ultra realistic strutter decoys and deeming it "fair chase " or ok because it's "legal." Also bothered by the way the younger generation is being brought in. Setting up blinds and decoys to make it easier. We should teach them to learn the sport of turkey hunting and turkey calling and not making it easy for them. It also bothers me with the kill and tag out at all cost quickly mentality that some of the hunters so desperately try to achieve.

Is turkey hunters are a strong breed. We stand firmly in what created this sport so great. And now it is being compromised by TV, money, decoys, and trendy cool stuff.

It's just the direction hunting as a whole is taking. And I'm not going to back down from my point of view.

If anyone would truly just try to hunt wild turkeys the real way they would really understand where people like myself and so many others are coming from. Just because you don't kill your four gobblers doesn't mean that you are less of a hunter or failed. I've killed only one a season several years. But that doesn't make me want to cheapen the hunt just to kill one.



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[TDW05]

1st I would like to apologize. I had no idea that there are so many certified wildlife biologist on here. How do you find the time to travel this entire state putting in thousands of hours collecting data on nest sites, number of nest, number of eggs per average nest, percentage of eggs that hatch and the percentage of those that hatch that make it to breeding maturity, habitat lost, percentage lost to predators, predator population up or down or other food source availability to predators effecting predatation on nest and juveniles, floods, droughts, disease, hunter numbers up or down, hunter's time in field up or down, hunter access up or down, percentage of hunter per acre of available land up or down, hard or mild winter(s), spring plant growth, and just plain ole mother nature year after year. I cant imagine the data stashed away, it must fill hundreds of books. But thankfully after all those years of hard work it has been scientifically proven its not just decoys but decoys with fans that are the cause of said problem. Good job
Dont give a hoot hoot about Alabama. Why? Geographically its different than Tennessee as well as the issues their wildlife may or may not have. Best of my memory Alabama has had it good with deer and turkey far longer than Tennessee hence no comparison.
Hate to break the news but turkey hunters been using fans from their kills and even turkeys from a taxidermist to hunt turkeys far longer than decoys became the in thing.
Hate to break the news but the vast majority of hunters dont have access to enough land to run and gun. Well at least not the one's that enough respect for other hunters not to be walking around and thru the spot they are hunting. Around here we have names for that type of hunter who knowingly screws up another hunter's hunting.
And just so I am clear on the proven factual data results, decoy (especially fans) and blinds are a crutch but a shotgun with a $100 turkey specific choke loaded with turkey specific load and topped with fiber optic sight or a red dot or a scope while dressed in the latest clothes while wearing boots designed to keep your feet feeling good and dry while using a call that specifically mimics the sound of a turkey carried in a vest with lumbar support and built in back rest with enough pockets to keep everything neat and organized while driving the 4 door 4x4 with heat and air pulling the trailer with the 4x4 4wheeler on it just fresh from watching the you tube videos on how to be a better caller after coming back from NWTF convention to check out the latest and greatest and possibly picking up a few things aint?
One last note, I know im not a man's man because I have never not once in my life ever thought bad about how a kid is legally hunting nor how they are being legally showed to hunt especially thinking bad enough of them to openly belittle them. But just on the small chance a man's man happens to becoming this way to do this, pleaeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese let us know me so I and others can come watch the show ole dad, uncle, or grandpa is going to put on.

The truth to this post and a couple similar is nobody wants to truly figure the problem out and put the work into finding a logical solution to benefit us all. Just looking for fire and brimstone knee jerk reaction into having everyone hunt like me cause my way is the only correct way and all others are wrong. Wonder what one could truly find if half the time spent putting "bump for a good deal" was used instead for actual problem solving.

Oh I aint mad, stupid, or looking to stir the pot I just have my own ideas, reactions to certain things, and the ability (unlike some) to take it as good as I give It.
And that is all i got to say about this same ole song and same ole dance just a difference dance floor.

I don't know what happened to you.....but I'm sorry for it! oke: :rotf:

 

[Setterman]

To me it isn't how any one hunts. I dont care if you do it legally or illegally. Makes no difference as long as you being illegal did not directly effect what I was doing.

I trout fish occasionally. I do not fly fish. I only trot fish in the Elk River where it is stocked trout. I give zero cares if someone tells me I'm not real trout fishing. But to me it's different because the trout are routinely stocked and they are In there everywhere. If I were fishing for wild trout in mountain creeks I may try fly fishing. Big difference. I deer hunt some. Bow and rifle. Mainly bow hunt because I enjoy it more. With deer I don't care what anyone else shoots with whatever weapon they use because where I'm from we have plenty of deer. I don't even consider myself a great deer hunter, I've never killed many true mature bucks.

What bothers me is the absolute inconsideration that there is a problem with our wild turkey populations in certain areas of the state. And the complete denial some guys have of routinely using ultra realistic strutter decoys and deeming it "fair chase " or ok because it's "legal." Also bothered by the way the younger generation is being brought in. Setting up blinds and decoys to make it easier. We should teach them to learn the sport of turkey hunting and turkey calling and not making it easy for them. It also bothers me with the kill and tag out at all cost quickly mentality that some of the hunters so desperately try to achieve.

Is turkey hunters are a strong breed. We stand firmly in what created this sport so great. And now it is being compromised by TV, money, decoys, and trendy cool stuff.

It's just the direction hunting as a whole is taking. And I'm not going to back down from my point of view.

If anyone would truly just try to hunt wild turkeys the real way they would really understand where people like myself and so many others are coming from. Just because you don't kill your four gobblers doesn't mean that you are less of a hunter or failed. I've killed only one a season several years. But that doesn't make me want to cheapen the hunt just to kill one.



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This is a bada$$ post.

I am a fly fisherman and pretty much that's all I use anytime I'm on the water. I could give two dangs what someone on the River is using or if they kill their limit of trout.

I am an avid deer hunter could care less whether someone uses a xbow, compound, recurve, ML, or rifle as well as if they shoot spikes or 160" beasts. Deer hunting is all sniping the range is all that differs, luck is a huge component of success.

In turkey hunting the traditional way luck certainly plays a part but the traditional hunter controls their own luck to a huge degree. The blind decoy crowd doesn't understand what it's like to have to make the decision of which tree to sit next to, or how close can I get, or dang these woods are wide open, or being slipped by a bird that uses a lip of terrain to slide by out of sight, or looking left and he shows up to the right, or freaking hens took him away again for the 20th hunt. The miss all the really frustrating but incredibly awesome aspects of true turkey hunting. They miss the lows of blowing an opportunity, the lows of making a set up error, the lows of getting picked off, and most certainly the lows of having a henned up bird gobble at every call as he follows his hens far far away.

The blind covers movement mistakes, the decoys create rage causing that bird to charge, and the connection felt when making a call and having a bird eat it up just out of sight is lost, or that intensity of having a bird you know is coming but you can't quite see him yet but can hear the leaves or the drumming or the spitting getting closer and closer.

Those things above are freaking magical, and the new era could give two rips about experiencing that and only care about the dead turkey. I'd go birdless for years before giving up those things just to punch a tag.

TV, YouTube, Facebook and other crap is ripping turkey hunting away from what it's supposed to be, and I truly fee sorry for folks that think sitting in a blind with a spread is what this sport is about, they are hurting themselves and missing out on amazing experiences at the cost of punching tags. The first thing they'll say is they got to see a gobbler fight their decoy, big deal I say, how about the times I've had two gobblers working that met in front of me and fought each other at 30 yards or less? That's a rush and that's seeing turkeys in action!

As you said, I don't get wrapped up in much other forms of fishing or hunting opinions, but in this world I have strong opinions and make no apologies as I try to make sure the tradition lives on. To the folks that have met me or know me, I'd say most would agree I'm a pretty decent dude, as well as easy going, but when it comes to this sport I feel strongly in the destruction the decoy rage is causing both to the traditions and the future

 

[Southern Sportsman]

For those of you that are so heavily against decoys... let me pose this question:

If turkeys were abundant here and population wasn't an issue, would you still be against decoys? I understand YOU don't want to use them - but would you still be against others using them?

It's really not accurate to hold my self out as an absolute no decoy purist. I've killed a few over decoys, and I've killed a couple out of tents when invited by friends who hunt that way. They were fun. But not the same kind of fun as calling one. Not by a long shot. The level of sheer euphoria/anxiety that overwhelms me when a gobbling bird is closing and I know I'll be able to see him any minute but I dont know exactly when or where is unlike anything else I've ever encountered in my life. The older I get (I'm 30) the less I want to do it any other way. I quit carying decoys a few years ago. I still go with buddies who use them, and I dont scold them when they stake them out. But it is somewhat sad that many people dont know any other way to hunt except with a tent and a decoy. Not sad as in "they're a sad person," sad as in "they really, really don't know what they're missing."

The last time I killed a turkey out of a tent I barely registered any level of excitement and I swore I'd never do it again. The feeling was not unlike shooting a squirrel out of my kitchen window. Something died, but there was really no way to screw it up. I felt like I was watching a "turkey hunt" on TV. That's not what I want my son's introduction to hunting the greatest game bird on earth to be like. If that means he can't go until he's 7-8 instead of 5-6, fine. If that means we bump 10 turkeys from fidgeting (and we will) before he kills one, cool. But if, God willing, he has any inclination to be a hunter, when it all comes together and he kills one with his back against a tree, I bet he'll be just as hopelessly addicted to that feeling as I am.

To answer the question, if you gave me the power to ban decoys even absent population issues I would do it in a heartbeat. Some people would quit hunting. Some would learn to do it the old fashioned way. And I would be happy about both.

 

[Levee Jumper]

1st I would like to apologize. I had no idea that there are so many certified wildlife biologist on here. How do you find the time to travel this entire state putting in thousands of hours collecting data on nest sites, number of nest, number of eggs per average nest, percentage of eggs that hatch and the percentage of those that hatch that make it to breeding maturity, habitat lost, percentage lost to predators, predator population up or down or other food source availability to predators effecting predatation on nest and juveniles, floods, droughts, disease, hunter numbers up or down, hunter's time in field up or down, hunter access up or down, percentage of hunter per acre of available land up or down, hard or mild winter(s), spring plant growth, and just plain ole mother nature year after year. I cant imagine the data stashed away, it must fill hundreds of books. But thankfully after all those years of hard work it has been scientifically proven its not just decoys but decoys with fans that are the cause of said problem. Good job
Dont give a hoot hoot about Alabama. Why? Geographically its different than Tennessee as well as the issues their wildlife may or may not have. Best of my memory Alabama has had it good with deer and turkey far longer than Tennessee hence no comparison.
Hate to break the news but turkey hunters been using fans from their kills and even turkeys from a taxidermist to hunt turkeys far longer than decoys became the in thing.
Hate to break the news but the vast majority of hunters dont have access to enough land to run and gun. Well at least not the one's that enough respect for other hunters not to be walking around and thru the spot they are hunting. Around here we have names for that type of hunter who knowingly screws up another hunter's hunting.
And just so I am clear on the proven factual data results, decoy (especially fans) and blinds are a crutch but a shotgun with a $100 turkey specific choke loaded with turkey specific load and topped with fiber optic sight or a red dot or a scope while dressed in the latest clothes while wearing boots designed to keep your feet feeling good and dry while using a call that specifically mimics the sound of a turkey carried in a vest with lumbar support and built in back rest with enough pockets to keep everything neat and organized while driving the 4 door 4x4 with heat and air pulling the trailer with the 4x4 4wheeler on it just fresh from watching the you tube videos on how to be a better caller after coming back from NWTF convention to check out the latest and greatest and possibly picking up a few things aint?
One last note, I know im not a man's man because I have never not once in my life ever thought bad about how a kid is legally hunting nor how they are being legally showed to hunt especially thinking bad enough of them to openly belittle them. But just on the small chance a man's man happens to becoming this way to do this, pleaeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese let us know me so I and others can come watch the show ole dad, uncle, or grandpa is going to put on.

The truth to this post and a couple similar is nobody wants to truly figure the problem out and put the work into finding a logical solution to benefit us all. Just looking for fire and brimstone knee jerk reaction into having everyone hunt like me cause my way is the only correct way and all others are wrong. Wonder what one could truly find if half the time spent putting "bump for a good deal" was used instead for actual problem solving.

Oh I aint mad, stupid, or looking to stir the pot I just have my own ideas, reactions to certain things, and the ability (unlike some) to take it as good as I give It.
And that is all i got to say about this same ole song and same ole dance just a difference dance floor.

So I did find your hunting spot... oke: