Regulation hypo (poll)

[Shanman]

So what is the rumor mill within local chapters of the NWTF? Are they pressuring/advising TWRA to make some changes? You guys have alot of insight and good ideas, so I would like to think that even more hunters statewide have the same concerns and are discussing the same topics. Just curious.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

So what is the rumor mill within local chapters of the NWTF? Are they pressuring/advising TWRA to make some changes? You guys have alot of insight and good ideas, so I would like to think that even more hunters statewide have the same concerns and are discussing the same topics. Just curious.

It's not just local chapters. Multiple representatives from the state NWTF chapter personally appeared at the Fish and Wildlife Commission meeting last year, submitted reliable biological data to support their points, and STRONGLY urged the FWC to adopt regulations similar to Missouri (3 week season starting later, 2 bird limit, no hunting past 1:00). Many others, including members here, also went and asked for changes. The commission thanked everyone for their input and made no changes (for 2 years).

 

[Shanman]

Thank you for answering my question Southern Sportsman, sounds like an attempt was made to open some eyes. I appreciate all that gave their time and made the effort.

 

[Andy S.]

So what is the rumor mill within local chapters of the NWTF? Are they pressuring/advising TWRA to make some changes? You guys have alot of insight and good ideas, so I would like to think that even more hunters statewide have the same concerns and are discussing the same topics. Just curious.

It's not just local chapters. Multiple representatives from the state NWTF chapter personally appeared at the Fish and Wildlife Commission meeting last year, submitted reliable biological data to support their points, and STRONGLY urged the FWC to adopt regulations similar to Missouri (3 week season starting later, 2 bird limit, no hunting past 1:00). Many others, including members here, also went and asked for changes. The commission thanked everyone for their input and made no changes (for 2 years).

I hope the same group shows up this spring at the TFWC meeting. There will be five new FRESH Commissioners sitting to hear what they have to say. The squeaky wheel usually gets the grease, especially if they are persistent enough, convincing and armed with factual data.

 

[TheLBLman]

The squeaky wheel usually gets the grease, especially if they are persistent enough, convincing and armed with factual data.

Sometimes the more relevant facts (from their administrative perspective)
seems to be promoting non-resident license sales?

If our turkey season didn't open earlier than some bordering states, there wouldn't be near as many non-resident license sales.
Reduce the turkey limit, and it's even less attractive to come to TN for turkey hunting.

Never mind, there would be very little difference in resident license sales?

Think about this:

If you're an avid, accomplished turkey hunter residing in Kentucky,
your turkey season opens 2 weeks later than Tennessee's.
Your annual turkey limit is 2 birds in KY.
It's a huge carrot to come to neighboring TN and kill 4 birds before your turkey season even opens.
Relatively low cost, convenient way of TRIPLING your annual bird kill.

A big driver of TN's annual turkey kill being early season is the combination of non-resident hunters
and resident hunters competing to kill early before a limited resource is perceived as mostly gone.

 

[Rakkin6]

I do the majority of my turkey hunting on Fort Campbell since I am stationed here and have been since 1997. So I have been hunting the base for a little while now. Needless to say last year the harvest on post was down and it seemed to be a rough season for quite a few guys I know that hunt the base. I know that they lowered the limit down this year from 4 birds to 2. So maybe TWRA will talk to the Biologist on Fort Campbell if it is successful in the next few years and drop their limit also. And just for full disclosure I voted for #2 to lower the limit.

 

[woodsman04]

So what is the rumor mill within local chapters of the NWTF? Are they pressuring/advising TWRA to make some changes? You guys have alot of insight and good ideas, so I would like to think that even more hunters statewide have the same concerns and are discussing the same topics. Just curious.

It's not just local chapters. Multiple representatives from the state NWTF chapter personally appeared at the Fish and Wildlife Commission meeting last year, submitted reliable biological data to support their points, and STRONGLY urged the FWC to adopt regulations similar to Missouri (3 week season starting later, 2 bird limit, no hunting past 1:00). Many others, including members here, also went and asked for changes. The commission thanked everyone for their input and made no changes (for 2 years).

Actually one change. Finally no hen killing in fall. The few hens that were killed in fall likely makes minuscule difference, but at least they took a baby step.

They also wanted to not change bag limits because of the on going study.

I bet next go around it will change.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Roost 1]

I do the majority of my turkey hunting on Fort Campbell since I am stationed here and have been since 1997. So I have been hunting the base for a little while now. Needless to say last year the harvest on post was down and it seemed to be a rough season for quite a few guys I know that hunt the base. I know that they lowered the limit down this year from 4 birds to 2. So maybe TWRA will talk to the Biologist on Fort Campbell if it is successful in the next few years and drop their limit also. And just for full disclosure I voted for #2 to lower the limit.

They actually lowered the limit on fort Campbell 2yrs ago, this will be the 3rd season of a 2 bird limit. A big step in the right direction, however Fort Campbell also needs to push their opener back a couple weeks as it has always opened before TN depending on the number of Saturdays in March. Also several other issues going on at the fort that are not beneficial to the turkey population.

 

[Grill-n-man]

Ding Ding we have a winner. This is the biggest whining, head swelled, egotistical, all about knowing jack post I have ever read to date. Ban this ban that you need to hunt only like me and cause I'm a mans man turkey hunter. Holy crap. Here's a couple questions for the avid accomplished real mans man turkey hunter who is the god created master of all that gobbles.
1) Ever heard of habitat reduction
2) Diseases
3) Food and water
4) Predators, yeah you know like egg eaters such as skunks. Coyotes, you know the dog like animal who's numbers seam to be up everywhere
5) Maybe after a time turkeys have become aware of man's presence in their world. You know that kinda 6th sence most wild animals have when a predator is after them
6) Maybe nature just said there is enough and has stabilized the population
7) Maybe a real mans man god of all that gobbles avid accomplished turkey hunter is the one who takes a decoy and kills a couple gobblers out of the 6 or 7 they see all season instead of the one that limits out cause they hunting the nature park where you can see a dozen or so a day
But since I'm not a mans man god of all that gobbles avid accomplished turkey hunter forgive me for thinking other those dang decoys, blinds, and heavy shot have caused a so called reduction in turkey numbers.
Oh one last question can you mans man gods of all that gobbles avid accomplished real turkey hunters please include a pick or your hand made bows with strings of sinew, hand made arrows with the flint knap heads, and hand sewn clothes you wear from the animals you've killed? Or are you simply using sharpened sticks, throwing rocks, or running them down and going at em bare handed? Shoot I bet is nothing But bare hands with this group.

PS
Maybe it's CWD

 

[Andy S.]

^^^ I must have missed something, the poll shows a consensus of lowering the limit to 2.

 

[Rakkin6]

Roost1 did not realize this was the third year, I was gone for the majority of the 2016 deer season and all of the 2017 turkey season. I knew that last year it was down to only 2 birds. What other concerns do you have with the population on post? Just curious of what your thoughts are on the management there. But I do agree with you that it is a step in the right direction. And if I am not mistaken deer season always opens the 3rd Saturday in September and turkey always opens the 3rd Saturday in March. I would have no problem with them opening a week later and maybe extending the season by one week on the back end.

 

[muddyboots]

Seriously if they move the start date back where I hunt 2 weeks They will definately save some turkeys. They will lose 3 license sales too.

 

[Setterman]

Ding Ding we have a winner. This is the biggest whining, head swelled, egotistical, all about knowing jack post I have ever read to date. Ban this ban that you need to hunt only like me and cause I'm a mans man turkey hunter. Holy crap. Here's a couple questions for the avid accomplished real mans man turkey hunter who is the god created master of all that gobbles.
1) Ever heard of habitat reduction
2) Diseases
3) Food and water
4) Predators, yeah you know like egg eaters such as skunks. Coyotes, you know the dog like animal who's numbers seam to be up everywhere
5) Maybe after a time turkeys have become aware of man's presence in their world. You know that kinda 6th sence most wild animals have when a predator is after them
6) Maybe nature just said there is enough and has stabilized the population
7) Maybe a real mans man god of all that gobbles avid accomplished turkey hunter is the one who takes a decoy and kills a couple gobblers out of the 6 or 7 they see all season instead of the one that limits out cause they hunting the nature park where you can see a dozen or so a day
But since I'm not a mans man god of all that gobbles avid accomplished turkey hunter forgive me for thinking other those dang decoys, blinds, and heavy shot have caused a so called reduction in turkey numbers.
Oh one last question can you mans man gods of all that gobbles avid accomplished real turkey hunters please include a pick or your hand made bows with strings of sinew, hand made arrows with the flint knap heads, and hand sewn clothes you wear from the animals you've killed? Or are you simply using sharpened sticks, throwing rocks, or running them down and going at em bare handed? Shoot I bet is nothing But bare hands with this group.

PS
Maybe it's CWD

1. Habitat reduction isn't really that applicable given turkeys ability to adapt to dang near all habitat. If anything habitat is improving as more and more people manage their land for game animals. However if habitat reduction is an issue than we should be doing everything we can to reduce harvest to help the population.
2. Disease is always a concern, and if disease if affecting the population than measures should be taken on all fronts to limit harvest
3. Food and water, well we've certainly got enough water and if either are an issue then again we should be in favor of anything to reduce harvest and protect the remaining population
4. Predators always have been a factor and if their numbers are beginning to be a detriment to the population we should control the numbers of birds hunters kill to offset what additional birds are now succumbing to predation
5. Turkeys are turkeys and haven't adjusted to our influence, if they had they would run from calls and definitely not continue to fall victim to plastic crutch decoys. If a bird is dead it's hard for them to spread the word so to speak. The old worn out theory that the gobble is being bred out of birds is garbage
6. The population may have stabilized to a average level. If that is the case than current harvest is affecting the numbers as limits were set prior to the adjustment down
7. I can only speak for me but I hunt entirely on public land and compete with lots of hunters for a handful of birds. No mans man of turkey hunting is sitting in a blind with decoys

You're probably correct that harvest is only one component but it's the most easily modified component as the other factors are much more difficult to control. I guarantee eliminating the crutches will save thousands of gobblers each spring thus benefiting the population as a whole.

To your last point, I bet there hasn't been 50 turkeys killed that way in the last 20 years. But unlike the crutch users I'd hang up the shotgun tomorrow for that style of it were made law. Is adjust and enjoy the challenge. That's the difference traditional folks would be fine and just adapt. Unlike the crutch users who flip out at the thought of not having their cake handed to them on a platter so easily, they can't accept being challenged or working for their kill. It's a sad mentality of instant gratification. Welcome to the club

 

[Roost 1]

Roost1 did not realize this was the third year, I was gone for the majority of the 2016 deer season and all of the 2017 turkey season. I knew that last year it was down to only 2 birds. What other concerns do you have with the population on post? Just curious of what your thoughts are on the management there. But I do agree with you that it is a step in the right direction. And if I am not mistaken deer season always opens the 3rd Saturday in September and turkey always opens the 3rd Saturday in March. I would have no problem with them opening a week later and maybe extending the season by one week on the back end.

Always opens 4th Saturday in March. Some years March has 5 Saturdays.

 

[Roost 1]

Ding Ding we have a winner. This is the biggest whining, head swelled, egotistical, all about knowing jack post I have ever read to date. Ban this ban that you need to hunt only like me and cause I'm a mans man turkey hunter. Holy crap. Here's a couple questions for the avid accomplished real mans man turkey hunter who is the god created master of all that gobbles.
1) Ever heard of habitat reduction
2) Diseases
3) Food and water
4) Predators, yeah you know like egg eaters such as skunks. Coyotes, you know the dog like animal who's numbers seam to be up everywhere
5) Maybe after a time turkeys have become aware of man's presence in their world. You know that kinda 6th sence most wild animals have when a predator is after them
6) Maybe nature just said there is enough and has stabilized the population
7) Maybe a real mans man god of all that gobbles avid accomplished turkey hunter is the one who takes a decoy and kills a couple gobblers out of the 6 or 7 they see all season instead of the one that limits out cause they hunting the nature park where you can see a dozen or so a day
But since I'm not a mans man god of all that gobbles avid accomplished turkey hunter forgive me for thinking other those dang decoys, blinds, and heavy shot have caused a so called reduction in turkey numbers.
Oh one last question can you mans man gods of all that gobbles avid accomplished real turkey hunters please include a pick or your hand made bows with strings of sinew, hand made arrows with the flint knap heads, and hand sewn clothes you wear from the animals you've killed? Or are you simply using sharpened sticks, throwing rocks, or running them down and going at em bare handed? Shoot I bet is nothing But bare hands with this group.

PS
Maybe it's CWD

Attitudes like these are why nothing is being done to stop the decline in the turkey population.
I mean no disrespect but it's obvious you don't care about the resource.

 

[Rakkin6]

Roost1 thanks for the correction, I just look at the season dates and know when I need to be ready LOL.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

Ding Ding we have a winner. This is the biggest whining, head swelled, egotistical, all about knowing jack post I have ever read to date. Ban this ban that you need to hunt only like me and cause I'm a mans man turkey hunter. Holy crap. Here's a couple questions for the avid accomplished real mans man turkey hunter who is the god created master of all that gobbles.
1) Ever heard of habitat reduction
2) Diseases
3) Food and water
4) Predators, yeah you know like egg eaters such as skunks. Coyotes, you know the dog like animal who's numbers seam to be up everywhere
5) Maybe after a time turkeys have become aware of man's presence in their world. You know that kinda 6th sence most wild animals have when a predator is after them
6) Maybe nature just said there is enough and has stabilized the population
7) Maybe a real mans man god of all that gobbles avid accomplished turkey hunter is the one who takes a decoy and kills a couple gobblers out of the 6 or 7 they see all season instead of the one that limits out cause they hunting the nature park where you can see a dozen or so a day
But since I'm not a mans man god of all that gobbles avid accomplished turkey hunter forgive me for thinking other those dang decoys, blinds, and heavy shot have caused a so called reduction in turkey numbers.
Oh one last question can you mans man gods of all that gobbles avid accomplished real turkey hunters please include a pick or your hand made bows with strings of sinew, hand made arrows with the flint knap heads, and hand sewn clothes you wear from the animals you've killed? Or are you simply using sharpened sticks, throwing rocks, or running them down and going at em bare handed? Shoot I bet is nothing But bare hands with this group.

PS
Maybe it's CWD

That's the spirit. Now it's a real turkey hunting debate. Thanks for playing along.

 

[megalomaniac]

Grill man....

I cannot figure out by your post if you are one of the last few holdouts in the state that thinks the population is fine statewide because you are in one if the last remaining pockets that has not experienced a decline or if you are offended by the fact that something has to change to reverse the slide.

Of course turkey populations fluctuate wildly depending on poult recruitment. And poor poult recruitment for nearly a decade straight is exactly why numbers have begun to freefall.

Please offer suggestions or your opinions of what hunters can do on a statewide level to improve poult recruitment. War on predators you mentioned, and I agree... we are losing far too many eggs to raccoons, and too many adults to coyotes. I just don't see many people wanting to agressively eliminate either at the level it will take to make a difference.

So we are left with looking for real world sacrifices we must make in order to ensure there is a hunt able population in all parts of the state for generations to come.

I understand your frustration with this discussion, but your response makes you just as holier than thou than those you accuse of the same... just on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Sent from my SCH-R970X using Tapatalk

 

[Grill-n-man]

A good conversation in the making mega

- Im not trying to project myself as holier just simply opening and eye at how ridiculous the idea of banning decoys and blinds are. For those that are just starting out, kids and ones with physical limitations either or both are useful. Blinds allow for movement and comfort, both are very important with kids. Decoys help bring birds in yes but are a great learning tool also. One can study what went wrong or right and what a bird's body posture and certain movements mean. Using either doesnt make one less of a hunter just as not using either makes one a better hunter. What makes you less of a hunter is hating and degrading a fellow hunter who is legally hunting the way they want to not like you want to. Its these type of hunters that are hurting hunting and hunting's future more than any anti hunting group can. Kids and new hunters read these types of post and just what does one think they take away from it? I'll bet it aint positive. I would be curious at how many "avid accomplished" turkey hunters got to be "avid accomplished" turkey hunters without decoys and such. I find it mind blowing how someone with a modern firearm and ammo, newest camo clothing, and calls can degrade another hunter for using a decoy.
- Can't tell you if there is a decline for a fact. I do not travel all over the state spending time in the same locations year after year. I do not have access to at least 20 years of population data and harvest numbers nor if I did, have the time nor education to put a scientific and accurate population model together. Also there are several factors to consider when looking at that data. Population - hard winter or mild, dry or wet summer, late frost kill new growth vegetation, habitat increase/decrease, etc. Harvest - license sales up, hunter numbers up, time in field, etc. Depending on how these numbers are presented, a false ideology can be formed. I can say I'm seeing turkeys. Some in new spots, some in same spots, as well as not seeing them where i once did. As far as how many I dont keep track. As far as habitat is concerned, yes turkeys are like lot of other animals. They are adaptive and move around, but will not establish a home territory in a subdivision where houses are built the minimum distance apart. Each new subdivision, factory, or mall is loss of habitat and the result is lost animals. Yes more are managing their land but not on a grand scale. Big difference in habitat improvement on 10 acres compared to 500 acres. It takes acreage, and alot of it to to be able to effectively make a positive difference. Dont get me wrong every little bit helps but planting 4 or 5 1 acre food plots on a 1000 acre lease full of pines is not habitat improvement.
- What can hunters do on a state wide scale? Nothing " State wide" management cant be the same. As diverse as our state is it will have happen according to what region/section one wants to address. That is how alot of seasons and bag limits were set and it worked back then and I see no reason why it could not work again. Just because the last couple of years one got used to seeing 30 birds a day and now only see 27 does not mean there is a decline enough to start panicking. I think to many have become spoiled to the peak in the population and the numbers to go along with that peak and any thing outside the "norm" then its panic time.
- Want more eggs to hatch and young birds to make it? Well pony up and do something. Let the coon hunters in, cause to let you in on a little secret coon dogs running coons at night hurting hunting is the biggest bunch of BS in the hunting world. Get of the internet and try trapping some skunks or predators, heck you may even like it. Get a call and go after some yotes. A $10 mouth call and the deer rifle will kill em just as good as anything. Get off the couch and do some predator control. Or even better yet, how about 1/2 the time spent degrading other hunters be put into vocalizing night hunting of predators. All kinds of ways to help, the question is are people going to pony up and get it done.
- Out of state hunters killing all our birds. I guess thats saying if I live Rhea county and hunt a lease in Miegs county I'm killing all of Miegs county's bird even though ive paid to do it and can legally do it so I shouldn't be allowed to cause I dont live there. Come own really
- If there is legitimate biological and scientific supported facts to justify a reduction in bag limit and season dates then I'm 100% for it. But if its merely just so a certain small percentage can say i saw 40 birds today or to decorate the living room then I'm 100% against it. I believe in wildlife management not interior decorating and chest puffing. More and more are getting management and interior decorating confused.

As for my frustration, yes I am frustrated. It is sickening at how more and more common its getting to see hunters degrading others hunters while talking about how they care about hunting's future in the same sentence.

 

[Gobbler88]

A good conversation in the making mega

- Im not trying to project myself as holier just simply opening and eye at how ridiculous the idea of banning decoys and blinds are. For those that are just starting out, kids and ones with physical limitations either or both are useful. Blinds allow for movement and comfort, both are very important with kids. Decoys help bring birds in yes but are a great learning tool also. One can study what went wrong or right and what a bird's body posture and certain movements mean. Using either doesnt make one less of a hunter just as not using either makes one a better hunter. What makes you less of a hunter is hating and degrading a fellow hunter who is legally hunting the way they want to not like you want to. Its these type of hunters that are hurting hunting and hunting's future more than any anti hunting group can. Kids and new hunters read these types of post and just what does one think they take away from it? I'll bet it aint positive. I would be curious at how many "avid accomplished" turkey hunters got to be "avid accomplished" turkey hunters without decoys and such. I find it mind blowing how someone with a modern firearm and ammo, newest camo clothing, and calls can degrade another hunter for using a decoy.
- Can't tell you if there is a decline for a fact. I do not travel all over the state spending time in the same locations year after year. I do not have access to at least 20 years of population data and harvest numbers nor if I did, have the time nor education to put a scientific and accurate population model together. Also there are several factors to consider when looking at that data. Population - hard winter or mild, dry or wet summer, late frost kill new growth vegetation, habitat increase/decrease, etc. Harvest - license sales up, hunter numbers up, time in field, etc. Depending on how these numbers are presented, a false ideology can be formed. I can say I'm seeing turkeys. Some in new spots, some in same spots, as well as not seeing them where i once did. As far as how many I dont keep track. As far as habitat is concerned, yes turkeys are like lot of other animals. They are adaptive and move around, but will not establish a home territory in a subdivision where houses are built the minimum distance apart. Each new subdivision, factory, or mall is loss of habitat and the result is lost animals. Yes more are managing their land but not on a grand scale. Big difference in habitat improvement on 10 acres compared to 500 acres. It takes acreage, and alot of it to to be able to effectively make a positive difference. Dont get me wrong every little bit helps but planting 4 or 5 1 acre food plots on a 1000 acre lease full of pines is not habitat improvement.
- What can hunters do on a state wide scale? Nothing " State wide" management cant be the same. As diverse as our state is it will have happen according to what region/section one wants to address. That is how alot of seasons and bag limits were set and it worked back then and I see no reason why it could not work again. Just because the last couple of years one got used to seeing 30 birds a day and now only see 27 does not mean there is a decline enough to start panicking. I think to many have become spoiled to the peak in the population and the numbers to go along with that peak and any thing outside the "norm" then its panic time.
- Want more eggs to hatch and young birds to make it? Well pony up and do something. Let the coon hunters in, cause to let you in on a little secret coon dogs running coons at night hurting hunting is the biggest bunch of BS in the hunting world. Get of the internet and try trapping some skunks or predators, heck you may even like it. Get a call and go after some yotes. A $10 mouth call and the deer rifle will kill em just as good as anything. Get off the couch and do some predator control. Or even better yet, how about 1/2 the time spent degrading other hunters be put into vocalizing night hunting of predators. All kinds of ways to help, the question is are people going to pony up and get it done.
- Out of state hunters killing all our birds. I guess thats saying if I live Rhea county and hunt a lease in Miegs county I'm killing all of Miegs county's bird even though ive paid to do it and can legally do it so I shouldn't be allowed to cause I dont live there. Come own really
- If there is legitimate biological and scientific supported facts to justify a reduction in bag limit and season dates then I'm 100% for it. But if its merely just so a certain small percentage can say i saw 40 birds today or to decorate the living room then I'm 100% against it. I believe in wildlife management not interior decorating and chest puffing. More and more are getting management and interior decorating confused.

As for my frustration, yes I am frustrated. It is sickening at how more and more common its getting to see hunters degrading others hunters while talking about how they care about hunting's future in the same sentence.

There have always been predators, that may be part of the problem, but that is not why they've seemed to just disappear. As far as decoys and fans, I think most people are just looking out for the future. The mature breeder toms that don't normally get killed until the last week or two of the season, if at all, are getting killed on opening day because of fans and such. No breeding equals no poults. I agree that some people complain and then do nothing to try to help things, but some people limit out the first week of season and then complain because the TWRA hasn't done anything about it. I agree with you about using decoys for new hunters and that is great, but after you've killed a few, one needs to try to play the cat and mouse game. It's really fun watching an old gobbler come looking for you. Not hating on anybody, just my .02.