Regulation hypo (poll)

[woodsman04]

I voted decoys!!! I feel every one voting on this thread are pretty pasonite about turkey hunting and could get around the woods just fine without them. What blows my mind is the R/C struters, mojo struters, struters on a string, fans, umbrella fans, gun attachments for fans crowd, and probably left some more out. Those tactics in my OPINION should be removed ASAP. You take a gobbler with a dozen hens that used to be pretty well untouchable now is the most vulnerable to getting his neck cracked opening day. I just pray it doesn't take someone getting hurt before it changes!

Last year a guy I know keep showing me some awesome videos that he filmed off his cell phone of gobblers on the roost strutting, gobbling the whole nine yards on public land. I said how in the world you keep getting so close without blowing them out his answer was I just hold this full strut decoy in front of my face and walk right to him...... I said on public land...yea he said I ain't ever seen nobody over there.. like I said I don't feel anyone here is this way or would ever do this but they are out there and just gaining ground

This times 1000!

Opening weekend and opening week there are thousands upon thousands of birds killed that most certainly would survive if decoys were outlawed. Like many I've hunted these things for a very long time and killed a ton of them over the years. However, these dominant field birds with sometimes 20 hens are as brutally hard to kill early as any animal we hunt. They stay with those hens from fly down to fly up and rarely break strut. The hens usually turn and leave when called to or simply ignore it. These birds are now being killed by hunters who would never stand a chance because of decoys. These birds are visible as they hit fields and strut allowing easy scouting etc, all a hunter has to do is stake a decoy out and shoot, that's it.

Remove decoys and even the most seasoned turkey killers aren't tagging those birds. However, instead those birds and thousands of them are dead right off the bat.

Them surviving even a week or two makes it far more likely they survive the season.

How many birds that are killed today, would survive if decoys were gone? 10,000? 15,000? That's a ton of birds removed which could survive making subsequent years better and better,

Melt the plastic!

I don't see how any one cannot understand this point and how true it really is....


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[woodsman04]

What is most likely to happen is reduce the limit to two birds, because it probably politically looks the best.

I still stand by my argument it would have little effect to reduce the limit. Most of those two would probably be killed the first Saturday and Sunday and a few lingering to the second weekend. There fore if 2/3 of the harvest was killed in essentially the first week it does nothing to save gobblers to breed later hens. This isn't deer hunting, where some hunters will be more selective, because to me a long beard is a long beard and is a mature gobbler whether he's 2 years old or thirty years old.

The only two things that will help reproductivity would be delay season to ensure more time for breeding and or to outlaw decoys so that so many birds aren't killed so quick.

They make other unsporting and in fair stuff in other hunting and fishing sports, why not turkey?

Avian x and all those folks got too much money and too much pull.




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[Southern Sportsman]

I don't use them, so I can't vouch with first-hand knowledge.

10-4...fair enough. Like you I have no basis for my assertion but just can't imagine a dominant bird being any less susceptible on April 15 or 20 than he would be on March 30 or April 5. While breeding is underway whether it's March, April, or on into May, a dominant bird simply doesn't like the idea of a perceived interloper.

They would still be susceptible. But their job would already be largely complete as most of their hens would be bred. Killing any individual turkey, in itself, makes no substantial impact on the population. Killing them before the hens are bred does.

 

[Andy S.]

They would still be susceptible. But their job would already be largely complete as most of their hens would be bred. Killing any individual turkey, in itself, makes no substantial impact on the population. Killing them before the hens are bred does.

Ditto!

 

[megalomaniac]

woodsman is spot on with his assessment; lowering the limit to 2 likely will have little effect on tom's abilitys to fertilize every hen except in areas with outstanding populations (ofc there, it really doesn't matter) since the kill is so frontloaded to the start of the season.

As far as the dominant field birds with the hens that are unkillable.... they still are unkillable for me using a hen decoy.... until mid- late April. Then they are very killable during the middle of the day when their hens have broken off to lay.

About the only way I've been successful killing the boss gobbler is to somehow get between him and his ladies... then it's a cakewalk. (It was fairly easy when I first started hunting them back in the early 90's bushwhacking them, but you had to take your time). You simply are NOT going to have a big gobbler leave his hens and come to your calling.

From the reaping videos I've seen, it looks way too easy to kill field birds.

 

[bobbuck]

So how many of you guys don't hunt the first couple weeks of the season in order to protect the flock? When the boss gobbler is killed what keeps another gobbler from breeding the hens? I have been turkey hunting for a long time and have never worried about killing a gobbler early affecting hens being breed. I might hear 10 gobblers in a morning I just always figured that the hens would get breed by another gobbler if I killed one.

I am not hunting fields or ag areas so maybe my situation is different than what you guys are talking about.

 

[poorhunter]

So how many of you guys don't hunt the first couple weeks of the season in order to protect the flock? When the boss gobbler is killed what keeps another gobbler from breeding the hens? I have been turkey hunting for a long time and have never worried about killing a gobbler early affecting hens being breed. I might hear 10 gobblers in a morning I just always figured that the hens would get breed by another gobbler if I killed one.

I am not hunting fields or ag areas so maybe my situation is different than what you guys are talking about.

The success rate on henned up field birds (even henned up woods birds) was always very low. Now, with decoys and fanning, that success rate is who knows how high. It's not that birds weren't always killed early, but just what percentage and which ones that has cause for concern.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

So how many of you guys don't hunt the first couple weeks of the season in order to protect the flock? When the boss gobbler is killed what keeps another gobbler from breeding the hens? I have been turkey hunting for a long time and have never worried about killing a gobbler early affecting hens being breed. I might hear 10 gobblers in a morning I just always figured that the hens would get breed by another gobbler if I killed one.

I am not hunting fields or ag areas so maybe my situation is different than what you guys are talking about.

Killing turkeys in early season is ok, generally speaking. With or without decoys the kill will be front loaded. But strutter decoys are disproportionately effective on dominant turkeys. And the are becoming more and more prevalent. Take decoys out of the picture and SOME dominate birds with lots of hens will still be killed early, but not many. Satellite and subordinate turkeys are much more likely to come to a call. Like mega said, dominant turkeys with 15 hens to breed simply do not leave those hens to go to calling. But they absolutely will leave their hens to confront a strutter decoy. So the first turkeys killed are the most important. There have been several studies lately dealing with flock dynamics. It's not as simple as "kill this one and another one will breed the hens." Disproportionately killing large numbers of dominant turkey before the hens are bred is resulting in a lot of hens not getting bred, leading to poor polt recruitment.

 

[Andy S.]

I have been turkey hunting for a long time and have never worried about killing a gobbler early affecting hens being breed. I might hear 10 gobblers in a morning.......

:shock: I understand why you aren't worried, sounds like you hunt in a very target rich environment. Kudos to you.

For many of us others, we hear 0-2 most mornings, with 3-5 being a morning to remember. Due to localized turkey numbers being down, as well as dominant male bird numbers being down, we do not want the dominant birds killed before the majority of the hens are bred in fear of many of the hens never being bred. The hens and poults already have too much against them for us hunters to not support the max number of hens being bred every spring.

 

[bobbuck]

So how many of you guys don't hunt the first couple weeks of the season in order to protect the flock? When the boss gobbler is killed what keeps another gobbler from breeding the hens? I have been turkey hunting for a long time and have never worried about killing a gobbler early affecting hens being breed. I might hear 10 gobblers in a morning I just always figured that the hens would get breed by another gobbler if I killed one.

I am not hunting fields or ag areas so maybe my situation is different than what you guys are talking about.

The success rate on henned up field birds (even henned up woods birds) was always very low. Now, with decoys and fanning, that success rate is who knows how high. It's not that birds weren't always killed early, but just what percentage and which ones that has cause for concern.

Just to be clear I do not use decoys. I have killed exactly one bird in 26 years using a decoy and I have never used a blind. I'm not killing the dominate bird but I will not kill a jake either. I will carry on with my turkey killing this year and it will probably be my last year for awhile.

I just never thought about hens not getting breed because a gobbler got killed, but the experts hopefully know there stuff. The decline in turkeys around my house which is not where I do most of my hunting is not from fanning or people killing dominate birds. I'm not sure what has happened but it's not from hunting because hardly anyone hunts around here. I used to hear 7 or 8 birds on a good morning now maybe 1-2. Good luck to all this year!

 

[woodsman04]

So how many of you guys don't hunt the first couple weeks of the season in order to protect the flock? When the boss gobbler is killed what keeps another gobbler from breeding the hens? I have been turkey hunting for a long time and have never worried about killing a gobbler early affecting hens being breed. I might hear 10 gobblers in a morning I just always figured that the hens would get breed by another gobbler if I killed one.

I am not hunting fields or ag areas so maybe my situation is different than what you guys are talking about.

If your hearing 10 gobblers a morning then you are in well enough shape to kill about 6-7 the very first weekend.

I bet it's been OVER a decade since I've heard ten different turkeys in one day much less just the morning. Even when we had good turkey numbers in my opinion a great morning would be to hear five or six different long beards.

Since 2010 or so, Now if I hear two or three on opening morning at my primo place I consider it good.


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[woodsman04]

So how many of you guys don't hunt the first couple weeks of the season in order to protect the flock? When the boss gobbler is killed what keeps another gobbler from breeding the hens? I have been turkey hunting for a long time and have never worried about killing a gobbler early affecting hens being breed. I might hear 10 gobblers in a morning I just always figured that the hens would get breed by another gobbler if I killed one.

I am not hunting fields or ag areas so maybe my situation is different than what you guys are talking about.

The success rate on henned up field birds (even henned up woods birds) was always very low. Now, with decoys and fanning, that success rate is who knows how high. It's not that birds weren't always killed early, but just what percentage and which ones that has cause for concern.

Just to be clear I do not use decoys. I have killed exactly one bird in 26 years using a decoy and I have never used a blind. I'm not killing the dominate bird but I will not kill a jake either. I will carry on with my turkey killing this year and it will probably be my last year for awhile.

I just never thought about hens not getting breed because a gobbler got killed, but the experts hopefully know there stuff. The decline in turkeys around my house which is not where I do most of my hunting is not from fanning or people killing dominate birds. I'm not sure what has happened but it's not from hunting because hardly anyone hunts around here. I used to hear 7 or 8 birds on a good morning now maybe 1-2. Good luck to all this year!

I think you sound pretty close to being spot on. But just because no one hunts around your area doesn't mean that it isn't effecting anything. Hens will travel a long ways to look for a spot to nest, and gobblers travel a long ways when they start looking for hens. It sounds like you know a little bit, so I'm preaching to the choir.


And I've said it too, that the front loaded heavy harvest at the beginning of season is having an effect, but it isn't the only thing. I still believe nesting/poults recruitment is the most important.

But here we go again, like a dog chasing it's tail, there is theory among some that hens that need to attempt to re-nest a second or third time may not have a gobbler to mate with or also no longer have viable sperm in their oviducts.


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[woodsman04]

I have been turkey hunting for a long time and have never worried about killing a gobbler early affecting hens being breed. I might hear 10 gobblers in a morning.......

:shock: I understand why you aren't worried, sounds like you hunt in a very target rich environment. Kudos to you.

For many of us others, we hear 0-2 most mornings, with 3-5 being a morning to remember. Due to localized turkey numbers being down, as well as dominant male bird numbers being down, we do not want the dominant birds killed before the majority of the hens are bred in fear of many of the hens never being bred. The hens and poults already have too much against them for us hunters to not support the max number of hens being bred every spring.

This.
Average daylight for me is 0-2 and anything 3-5 is great and if I heard 7 or 8 I don't know what I'd do.


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[deerfever]

So do you guys in the area where turkey numbers are down not hunt the first two weeks of the season and hold yourself to a two bird limit? That is true dedication to the cause and shows that you are serious about the turkey population in your area. I truly applaud your efforts! It makes sense to me that if you have private or your own land to hunt you can control when you start and how many you kill. This would eliminate breeder gobblers from being taken out to early and also ensure population growth for years to come. I can't control my urge to go after them on March 30 but I hunt public hardwoods and if I am not there others will be. Sometimes I wonder how Tn has killed 30,000 or more since 2001(I think that is correct) until last year with the season opening in March? Did no one know of the breeder gobbler theory or has the strutter decoy been the demise of the breeder? I do not use decoys so I honestly have nothing to say on the subject. I do have a foam hen but I never get it out, again I mainly hunt hardwoods I want him coming close and looking for a hen. I always thought if he seen a decoy he may hang up and strut expecting the hen to come to him as is in nature. I have been hunting them for 36 years and will go along with whatever if the population is in danger. It seems in my area the turkey population is actually on the rise. With that being said I realize our state is diverse and some counties have taken a hit. I am a team player and will do whatever is best ! I am wondering if the increase of certain predators and reduced nesting areas is at the root of some of this in Certain areas?

 

[Roost 1]

The strutting decoy is a game changer, outlaw them and fanning. Move the opener back 2 weeks and see the benefits in 3yrs...Lots of TN hunters don't think or won't admit there is a problem. Strutting decoys and fanning needs to be outlawed nation wide.

 

[poorhunter]

The strutting decoy is a game changer, outlaw them and fanning. Move the opener back 2 weeks and see the benefits in 3yrs...Lots of TN hunters don't think or won't admit there is a problem. Strutting decoys and fanning needs to be outlawed nation wide.

Voice of truth and reason here folks. Listen to him.

 

[Setterman]

So do you guys in the area where turkey numbers are down not hunt the first two weeks of the season and hold yourself to a two bird limit? That is true dedication to the cause and shows that you are serious about the turkey population in your area. I truly applaud your efforts! It makes sense to me that if you have private or your own land to hunt you can control when you start and how many you kill. This would eliminate breeder gobblers from being taken out to early and also ensure population growth for years to come. I can't control my urge to go after them on March 30 but I hunt public hardwoods and if I am not there others will be. Sometimes I wonder how Tn has killed 30,000 or more since 2001(I think that is correct) until last year with the season opening in March? Did no one know of the breeder gobbler theory or has the strutter decoy been the demise of the breeder? I do not use decoys so I honestly have nothing to say on the subject. I do have a foam hen but I never get it out, again I mainly hunt hardwoods I want him coming close and looking for a hen. I always thought if he seen a decoy he may hang up and strut expecting the hen to come to him as is in nature. I have been hunting them for 36 years and will go along with whatever if the population is in danger. It seems in my area the turkey population is actually on the rise. With that being said I realize our state is diverse and some counties have taken a hit. I am a team player and will do whatever is best ! I am wondering if the increase of certain predators and reduced nesting areas is at the root of some of this in Certain areas?

I'd love to say I had the restraint but the fact is I don't, but I do limit the number of birds I kill in any given area. I hunt the huge public tracts of east tn and spread my kills over a several hundred thousand acres.

I'm a pretty dang lethal turkey killer, but rarely take a super dominant henned up bird in the first half of the season. It's just brutally hard when they fly up and down with hens and every call sends hens the other way. The vast majority of my early season kills are 3 year old birds who are dominant enough to still gobble but are on the prowl after being booted by the dominant bird.

One thing on the decoys I've never thought of, is that it isn't the hen decoys that are the issue imo. In fact they're success is debatable. It's the fans and strutters that are amazingly effective to the point I don't think they're fair chase. When a tool/tactic allows for the killing of vast numbers of otherwise unkillable critters it needs to be examined. Thousands upon thousands of gobblers would be spared with simply outlawing male turkey decoys of any kind.

Heck leave the hen decoys alone for all I care, that way the decoy/blind crowd still gets there's and the benefits of no strutters/fans will be felt big time.

I can't think of any killing tool more effective in the modern era than the strutters and fans.

 

[deerfever]

I hunt mainly on public in the east also Setterman and there is no way I would even consider a strutter or a fan! I am being honest I am afraid someone is going to get hurt by watching the videos and then trying this stuff on public land! I couldn't imagine getting behind a fan and crawling I would not feel safe at all! That is just me!

 

[woodsman04]

So do you guys in the area where turkey numbers are down not hunt the first two weeks of the season and hold yourself to a two bird limit? That is true dedication to the cause and shows that you are serious about the turkey population in your area. I truly applaud your efforts! It makes sense to me that if you have private or your own land to hunt you can control when you start and how many you kill. This would eliminate breeder gobblers from being taken out to early and also ensure population growth for years to come. I can't control my urge to go after them on March 30 but I hunt public hardwoods and if I am not there others will be. Sometimes I wonder how Tn has killed 30,000 or more since 2001(I think that is correct) until last year with the season opening in March? Did no one know of the breeder gobbler theory or has the strutter decoy been the demise of the breeder? I do not use decoys so I honestly have nothing to say on the subject. I do have a foam hen but I never get it out, again I mainly hunt hardwoods I want him coming close and looking for a hen. I always thought if he seen a decoy he may hang up and strut expecting the hen to come to him as is in nature. I have been hunting them for 36 years and will go along with whatever if the population is in danger. It seems in my area the turkey population is actually on the rise. With that being said I realize our state is diverse and some counties have taken a hit. I am a team player and will do whatever is best ! I am wondering if the increase of certain predators and reduced nesting areas is at the root of some of this in Certain areas?

I'd love to say I had the restraint but the fact is I don't, but I do limit the number of birds I kill in any given area. I hunt the huge public tracts of east tn and spread my kills over a several hundred thousand acres.

I'm a pretty dang lethal turkey killer, but rarely take a super dominant henned up bird in the first half of the season. It's just brutally hard when they fly up and down with hens and every call sends hens the other way. The vast majority of my early season kills are 3 year old birds who are dominant enough to still gobble but are on the prowl after being booted by the dominant bird.

One thing on the decoys I've never thought of, is that it isn't the hen decoys that are the issue imo. In fact they're success is debatable. It's the fans and strutters that are amazingly effective to the point I don't think they're fair chase. When a tool/tactic allows for the killing of vast numbers of otherwise unkillable critters it needs to be examined. Thousands upon thousands of gobblers would be spared with simply outlawing male turkey decoys of any kind.

Heck leave the hen decoys alone for all I care, that way the decoy/blind crowd still gets there's and the benefits of no strutters/fans will be felt big time.

I can't think of any killing tool more effective in the modern era than the strutters and fans.

I'm with you. No gobbler decoys allowed.

And to expound further, it isn't the decoys that make me upset in the first place. It's the issue that some people just buy fans and strutters and bounce around fields killing every boss field gobbler they come to.

State agencies have outlawed other unsporting or un-fair ways of killing or catching stuff. Why not decoys too?

-I'm no major fishermen, so correct me if wrong, but isn't the "Alabama rig" illegal in some areas?
-Can we still fish with dynamite or electrical probes to stick in the water?
-Can you sit in a shooting house with a car battery and a q-beam for deer?
-Live turkey decoys are illegal, these ultra realistic ones ought to be too.
-Can we hunt by aid of agricultural grain? (I do believe that it is easier to kill a gobbler with a full strutter than it is sitting over a feeder)
-Can we rifle hunt in the new absurd rich man only August "velvet hunt" (imagine how easy it would be to get 150 yards away with the 7mag and poke a 140" 10 point in a bean field)

The traditional sport of old school turkey hunting has been lost. I really suggest to anyone read Tom Kelly and those guys, or listen to old Ben Lee tapes.

I'm not talking about old school that the native Americans used, they hunted for survival. I'm not talking about the original fall turkey hunting. (Turkey hunting in the fall, gobbler only, is also very challenging if done the old traditional way of walking miles along hard wood ridges to find a flock of gobblers to scatter) Also fall turkey hunting was the original because biologically fall is the time of "harvest" where there is the most turkeys available to harvest.

I sure am glad someone along the way decided to make spring turkey hunting, because done the correct traditional way of shot gun and calls, it is the most addicting, fun, amazing sport I have ever encountered. Besides Church and my family, it's the only other thing about life I really enjoy. It's a dang disease.

I will continue to hunt like I hunt, and try to reason with folks, and tell folks about wild turkey hunting and wild turkey management and anatomy and physiology. I just hope that they don't end up like the Bobwhite Quail. (Two best sounds in the woods are the wild turkey and the Bobwhite Quail.)


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[Gravey]

Lower the limit to 2.