Should we even worry about CWD anymore?

[MickThompson]

This is correct. The areas that have CWD the longest and at the highest concentrations are the "test beds" for finding resistant or immune deer.

But are they seeing any bounce back in those areas after 60+ years?

 

[BSK]

We may not change anything about our management styles,
but our results may be greatly & adversely effected by the hunting regulation changes implemented as CWD edicts.

That is very possible. However, for me personally, I'm not as worried about that because the deer hunting pressure has gotten so low in my area. Even during the opening weekends of MZ and gun season, gunshots are few and far between. And by Thanksgiving, the only thing hunters are interested in is duck hunting.

 

[Jcalder]

We are seeing different stats and listening to different experts I guess.

Perhaps, but I see a state that went rogue on the herd, therefore decimating everything you guys have been doing to promote an older deer herd. Depred permits are possibly the number one issue that hasnt been addressed, for multiple reasons. I personally think that's why your numbers are in the dumps.

 

[BSK]

But are they seeing any bounce back in those areas after 60+ years?

They never saw a major decline in population, at least from CWD. Efforts by the state to decimate local populations hurt a lot, but once those ended, the populations are doing well. Now a high percentage of animals still show infection, but a deer can live for 4 or 5 years after infection.

 

[fairchaser]

Did they not reduce the size restrictions that would lead to this. CWD was here well before it was identified.

Yes, they did reduce the size restrictions on bucks and that could contribute to harvesting younger bucks. But, it would not have affected the does harvested. Also, we just aren't seeing as many 3.5 and older bucks. Ask any Ames hunter and they will agree 100%.

 

[fairchaser]

Perhaps, but I see a state that went rogue on the herd, therefore decimating everything you guys have been doing to promote an older deer herd. Depred permits are possibly the number one issue that hasnt been addressed, for multiple reasons. I personally think that's why your numbers are in the dumps.

We've killed fewer and fewer deer every year since CWD was discovered. There could be many reasons for that but fewer deer on the landscape is one of the reasons.

 

[Omega]

Yes, they did reduce the size restrictions on bucks and that could contribute to harvesting younger bucks. But, it would not have affected the does harvested. Also, we just aren't seeing as many 3.5 and older bucks. Ask any Ames hunter and they will agree 100%.

Wouldn't the additional pressure of hunting younger bucks not have the older ones make themselves scarce? On many of the bases I have hunted, the oldest/bigger bucks were always in the impact areas or off-limits areas. Once they opened those areas up, the bucks moved elsewhere.

 

[Iglow]

the only way I see us ever getting past EAB is the bug wipes out all the mature trees they have to feed on and die

I've wondered about that and can't get a straight answer, it seems like that's what should happen but they could mutate and move on to some other type of tree? I sure hope that after they burn through all the ash alive now that they die out with the last trees. It seems if that's so, ash seedlings in the first place they appeared and killed off the trees would be growing now, it's been 20 years since it started and those areas should be clear of EAB? It seems it moves in a line like a fire in the woods where it moves forward and leaves nothing consumable behind.

 

[Iglow]

That is very possible. However, for me personally, I'm not as worried about that because the deer hunting pressure has gotten so low in my area. Even during the opening weekends of MZ and gun season, gunshots are few and far between. And by Thanksgiving, the only thing hunters are interested in is duck hunting.

Same here, back 25/30 years ago you heard shots a lot starting with mz and tapering off right after Christmas, now it's unusual to hear many at all for the entire season.

 

[fairchaser]

This is long but eye opening.

 

[Ski]

a deer can live for 4 or 5 years after infection.

I don't hear this mentioned often enough. That's about the lifespan of a typical buck to begin with, and a doe living that long can produce several fawns before ever exhibiting symptoms. Essentially many deer would outlive the disease even if they were born with it. I think that's why we don't see big a die off and why in most places we don't see an affect on age structure. This is a big silver lining that would calm the hyperbole doom & gloom but for whatever reason we don't get to hear it near as often or as loud as the scary stuff. But it explains why we've been hearing for decades about how our deer will disappear, but they don't.

 

[backyardtndeer]

We are seeing different stats and listening to different experts I guess.

That's a funny thing about science, not all experts will agree....

 

[fairchaser]

I don't hear this mentioned often enough. That's about the lifespan of a typical buck to begin with, and a doe living that long can produce several fawns before ever exhibiting symptoms. Essentially many deer would outlive the disease even if they were born with it. I think that's why we don't see big a die off and why in most places we don't see an affect on age structure. This is a big silver lining that would calm the hyperbole doom & gloom but for whatever reason we don't get to hear it near as often or as loud as the scary stuff. But it explains why we've been hearing for decades about how our deer will disappear, but they don't.

The experts disagree on this. Some deer might live longer with the disease but the common belief is that deer live 18-24 months after they get CWD. Thus a doe getting CWD at birth from their mother would only have 1 fawning cycle.

 

[Iglow]

I don't hear this mentioned often enough. That's about the lifespan of a typical buck to begin with, and a doe living that long can produce several fawns before ever exhibiting symptoms. Essentially many deer would outlive the disease even if they were born with it. I think that's why we don't see big a die off and why in most places we don't see an affect on age structure. This is a big silver lining that would calm the hyperbole doom & gloom but for whatever reason we don't get to hear it near as often or as loud as the scary stuff. But it explains why we've been hearing for decades about how our deer will disappear, but they don't.

What they may have been worrying about was even more potential new hunters/ license buyers taking a pass because they want nothing to do with zombie deer?

 

[Snake]

Unfortunately the same thing is now happening with ash and just recently with beech. Ash are already almost gone. I've lost nearly all of mine, minus a few resistant trees. It's sad because I remember when the forest was full of them. They were straight, tall, and huge. Superb lumber logs but now they're gone.

Lost a huge one hear at house..tried counting the rings and it was over 75 years old . Great shade

 

[MickThompson]

I've wondered about that and can't get a straight answer, it seems like that's what should happen but they could mutate and move on to some other type of tree? I sure hope that after they burn through all the ash alive now that they die out with the last trees. It seems if that's so, ash seedlings in the first place they appeared and killed off the trees would be growing now, it's been 20 years since it started and those areas should be clear of EAB? It seems it moves in a line like a fire in the woods where it moves forward and leaves nothing consumable behind.

I take comfort in all the young ash trees I see in the woods if we can get them past deer-lip high

Hopefully this is a loss that only one generation will have to endure... time will tell.

 

[Jcalder]

We've killed fewer and fewer deer every year since CWD was discovered. There could be many reasons for that but fewer deer on the landscape is one of the reasons.

Correct. But the rate at which it actually kills deer isn't near that fast. There are a few factors that do tho, ehd and depred permits. Also, the very liberal bag limits that were changed for the cwd units. Cwd just plain does not kill your herd fast enough to notice it. If that were true, places that's had it for years would have substantially lower herd numbers than they currently do.

 

[Jcalder]

While we're on this conversation. Let's look at areas that have had cwd for many years. I'm currently in Wisconsin, and very close to their outbreak area. Everywhere you go, there's ag. Cornfields upon cornfields. Alfalfa fields. The prions live in the dirt, or so they claim. So what about the plants growing in the affected dirt. What about cows grazing the affected land that the deer have roamed for the last 20+ years. It hasn't jumped to cows. No one is concerned for their food supply, or even ours, but the deer gotta go? I've seen more deer ran over in 4 days, middle of summer than I'll see during the rut in Tennessee.

 

[Headhunter]

CWD is here to stay and it will eventually spread everywhere. Like Covid, there is no stopping it. It's doubtful whether any of the efforts to slow the spread have actually done anything.

Yes, it has and will impact populations in some areas as I'm a witness of that in the area I hunt. But, it won't eliminate a population altogether; just make the population younger.

There is no magic cure on the horizon and thankfully doesn't seem to pass to humans or any other animal that's not in the deer family.
So, here we are. We just have to live with it just like Covid. It's part of society now and forever more.
Is it time to just move on and put it behind us? I say yes.

I never worried about it and was for sure against "kill all the deer so CWD can be better dealt with". The kill all the deer approach was tried several times before Tennessee even thought about it and it has not changed anything except killing a bunch of deer.

 

[recurve60#]

Jc, over the past few seasons, we've had younger and younger bucks. The older deer just aren't there in the numbers they were before. Since we age every deer that is checked in, we have the statistics. Sadly, this is a fact.

Is it because TWRA wants everything walking killed?