I'll take my chances with my cam placement.
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Antler Daddy
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You believe a deer knows what a camera is?
I would say they may know it is not natural same as a metal deer stand.
I wouldn't necessarily say they know what a camera is, but I'd say they recognize them as something to be cautioned. How many cameras has a buck seen by the time he has a nice 3yr old rack? How about a 5yr old? Most times a buck encounters a camera, it hears a click, sees a red glow, and undoubtedly can smell human in the area. I doubt it takes long before they associate a camera with danger. Even if you do everything exactly right, somebody else in the buck's range who isn't as careful with cameras will still educate the buck.
I've learned that bucks will tolerate cameras in unavoidable congregation areas like mineral sites, food plots, etc. They are noticeably wary but they'll put themselves within sight of it for the sake of getting what they want. But out on a trail is something entirely different. If a buck sees your camera on a trail, he very might never use that trail again. They always seem more startled when noticing a camera on a trail than when they see one at a congregation point. I quit putting cams on trails anymore. I'll set them off in the periphery somewhere and far away. It doesn't catch as many deer and the pics aren't much to look at, but they're clear enough to at least determine the buck on image. I also have learned to set them where I don't have to cross a trail or walk through a plot to access them.
I pretty much follow the same procedures as I would if I were hanging a stand to hunt. I think that's where a lot of people might be running into issues with cams spooking deer. If you set them up same as if they were a stand that you plan to hunt out of, then you're generally pretty safe. But putting them where deer will notice the camera, your scent from checking the camera, or both, will almost always chase away the older bucks. Hard lesson learned for me.
I don't care one way or the other but don't think they should be banned on private ground for sure. Never hunted out west but do understand the reasoning on public ground water holes where every Joe Q. Public has one running. One of our members runs them on our lease but if he didn't I don't know that I would. Probably not although I do have a couple cameras assuming they still work. LOL I'm an hour and a half away so not convenient to go check them. On one hand it's definitely nice seeing some of what's using the property to get you excited but on the other hand it takes out the element of surprise. I killed a 10-pt the opening day of muzzleloader this year and it was the biggest deer we had on camera. Ironically he was on the opposite side of the 800+ acre farm we hunt and never had a pic of him there.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Don't know why it is, but most often we kill bucks far from where they are most frequently photographed. In fact, this is very much the rule instead of the exception. Killing a buck near the place he is most often photographed is the exception.
BSK
Well-Known Member
I think my experiences are different because I use cameras most often 1) on large properties with tightly controlled hunter densities; 2) my cameras are all totally silent and true black-flash; and 3) I never walk to a camera to check it.
But I'll get the same mature bucks on the same trail and scrape cameras over and over and over, from the beginning of season to the end. And these bucks are just feet from the camera and clearly see it the first time they encounter it in that location (often coming over and sniffing the camera).
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I have a partial answer to why this so often happens.
Older deer are usually much more sensitive to ANY human intrusion.
Those who get pics of "target" bucks then have a tendency to hunt spots at or where the pics were obtained. THAT in turn contributes to those target bucks shifting their range a bit, and/or just shifting the times, and maybe more commonly, just walking a few hundred yards every time they hear, see, or smell something associated with a human, such as a hunter walking to his stand.
IMO, deer "sense" our comings & going much more than we may think, and just because we don't see or hear them, doesn't mean they didn't "sense" our coming, and move out just before we could possibly see or hear them.
Over the past couple decades, monitoring an area of several thousand acres, it is uncanny how often I've obtained a trail cam pic with a certain time & date, then found out that same buck was killed over a mile away within 24 hrs of the pic.
As one example, during the 2020 deer season, I had a pic of a fully mature 10-pointer come by a cam @ 10am. A friend of mine got on a stand @ 3pm a mile away, and killed that same buck @ 3:30 pm. Mature bucks will periodically travel significant linear distance even in mid-day, not just nocturnally as many seem to think. But at night during the rut, a buck seen one evening right at dark is often killed the next morning over a mile away.
BSK
Well-Known Member
I agree with that 1,000%.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
And for this reason all by itself, very seldom could any hunter ever have the opportunity to get a "real time" cell cam pic, then go kill that buck, as the hunter has to travel from Point A to Point B, not only without being detected, but BEFORE that "target" deer has moved on.
To what extent the above might sometimes be possible, so is scanning an area with binoculars (or a spotting scope), seeing a "target" buck, then successfully stalking it. Western hunters do this all the time.
I do see how cell cams monitoring a corn pile in someone's backyard could be used as a tool to poach a deer from the back porch. But that is more a problem of the person than the cam, and "outlawing" cell cams for hunters will not prevent someone from doing this in their backyard if they're already of that mindset to poach or break the rules.
That said, most cell cam users I know, including myself, typically have our cams set to send us pics a time or two daily, rather than in "real time". When a cell cam is set to send each pic "timely", the cam will eat batteries, somewhat negating much the reason for having a cell cam, since you have to visit it more frequently to replace the batteries.
fairchaser
Well-Known Member
That's what I mean. They don't have the cognitive ability to understand that their picture is being taken. But, they know it's not natural and therefore human intrusion into their space and should be avoided in daylight.
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megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a lot of yall don't hunt for the same reasons as me...
I hunt to kill a deer that meets my personal standards. I'm going to kill him legally, but the hardest part of killing him is just finding him. Once I find him with a camera, then it's me vs him. He wins most of the time, but I win just enough to keep me wanting to play the game over and over and over.
I hunt to kill a deer that meets my personal standards. I'm going to kill him legally, but the hardest part of killing him is just finding him. Once I find him with a camera, then it's me vs him. He wins most of the time, but I win just enough to keep me wanting to play the game over and over and over.
WTNBowHunter
Well-Known Member
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Which is almost one mile.
For most TN hunters hunting on private property, one mile in any direction becomes a location they cannot legally hunt.
Trail cams & cell cams are no where near the hunting tool many NON-users assume.
These cams are more of an area deer "inventory" tool than a hunting tool.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Agree completely. I use my cams as inventory tools. The only use I've found for them for hunting is to show which sections of my property are the "hot" areas that season. And even then, bucks are regularly killed outside of the hot zone.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I've been using trail cams (in significant quantity, not just one or two) for over two decades, and cell cams ever since the first year that Covert came out with one.
In my experiences, both for myself and other users, trail cam use SAVES more bucks than they cause to be killed. However, trail cam use CAN increase the odds for the killing of a particular "target" buck, but at the expense of "saving" other bucks. I say "CAN" because more often I see exactly the opposite with many trail cam users relying too much on their trail cams as a hunting tool rather than a broad area inventory tool.
Personal case in point this past 2021 deer season.
I had pics of a 7 1/2-yr-old buck that was my #1 "target" buck.
I decided it was him, or nothing.
If not for trail cam pics, I'd never have known he was still alive.
Even though the last pic of him was late October 2021,
I held out, and because of the trail cams pics,
gave a pass to other bucks I normally would have killed,
at least one, maybe two.
In my experiences, both for myself and other users, trail cam use SAVES more bucks than they cause to be killed. However, trail cam use CAN increase the odds for the killing of a particular "target" buck, but at the expense of "saving" other bucks. I say "CAN" because more often I see exactly the opposite with many trail cam users relying too much on their trail cams as a hunting tool rather than a broad area inventory tool.
Personal case in point this past 2021 deer season.
I had pics of a 7 1/2-yr-old buck that was my #1 "target" buck.
I decided it was him, or nothing.
If not for trail cam pics, I'd never have known he was still alive.
Even though the last pic of him was late October 2021,
I held out, and because of the trail cams pics,
gave a pass to other bucks I normally would have killed,
at least one, maybe two.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
By the way, regarding that 2021 7 1/2-yr-old buck, I did all of my "targeted" hunting for him at several different "ambush" locations, the closest of which was 450 yds from the last pic, while the "spot" most hunted was @ 1,100 yds away. I did have several other trail cams (some of them cell cams) in the general area, but only one cam had multiple pics of him.
This buck was by no means a "monster" buck, but I believed he would have grossed over 140 as a mainframe 8. I have no reason to believe he's still alive, and more reason to believe he's now deceased.
This buck was by no means a "monster" buck, but I believed he would have grossed over 140 as a mainframe 8. I have no reason to believe he's still alive, and more reason to believe he's now deceased.
Spot on. Who is comin and goin. Do they look healthy. Are they nocturnal. That's usually what I'm taking from mine.
Headhunter
Well-Known Member
Another reason why I think cameras are, so some extent, a waste of time and money, well at least in some areas.
In Kentucky, a few years ago, the neighboring property (which they most always run cameras and still do) had an unbelievable number of bucks on camera, of which 13 or 14 were nice bucks and one giant. They showed us the pics the night before opening day. We had zero cameras out, none anywhere on the land that we hunted, still don't.
That season, of course during legal hunting hours, from daylight opening day until about 9 am the next day, a dozen nice bucks were killed. They ranged from 138" to 161" and this is in a highly pressured area, one large field (about 1/2 mile by 3/4 mile) next to us, 6 to 8 hunters surround the field and they shoot most any deer that comes out, doesn't matter they shoot most every deer they see, it sucks for sure.
That season I killed the only buck they had on film, a mid 140's 10 ptr. All of the bucks killed, except for mine, they had zero pics of, including an 8 ptr that chased a doe around me for about 30 minutes right after I killed my deer, that had close to 8" bases and the 161" deer was a straight up 10 ptr. All the bucks killed were nice.
Year before last, they had one good buck on camera, ONE. It was 300 yards or so in front of where I hunt on there property. I knew nothing about the pic. They killed 4 great bucks that season, none of them were on a camera anywhere around (more people hunting a couple farms and they all run cameras) and I killed the buck, a 159" and change 14 ptr. No cameras are run on the farm we hunt, don't need to, don't want to.
It may have cost me this year, I had to pass a giant, might have grossed boone and crockett, a for sure mature buck walked by me at 40 yards behind a doe. Might I have passed on the deer I killed (a 147" 8 ptr) this year if I had a pic of the buck in the attached pic before I hunted, most likely. Does it matter to me, nope, I am for sure happy with a 147" deer, much less and 8 ptr and I like to hunt and don't need or want a camera to do the hunting for me, that is my opinion. 3rd time it has happened there in the dozen or so years that I have hunted there, that is seeing what is a giant in anyone's eyes after I had already tagged. Crazy thing is, no one had pic of any of those 3 bucks that we know of around us, and there is a ton of cameras all around where we hunt, I would not be surprised if there are over 100 cameras being run around us, maybe a couple hundred. None on the farm we hunt.
In Kentucky, a few years ago, the neighboring property (which they most always run cameras and still do) had an unbelievable number of bucks on camera, of which 13 or 14 were nice bucks and one giant. They showed us the pics the night before opening day. We had zero cameras out, none anywhere on the land that we hunted, still don't.
That season, of course during legal hunting hours, from daylight opening day until about 9 am the next day, a dozen nice bucks were killed. They ranged from 138" to 161" and this is in a highly pressured area, one large field (about 1/2 mile by 3/4 mile) next to us, 6 to 8 hunters surround the field and they shoot most any deer that comes out, doesn't matter they shoot most every deer they see, it sucks for sure.
That season I killed the only buck they had on film, a mid 140's 10 ptr. All of the bucks killed, except for mine, they had zero pics of, including an 8 ptr that chased a doe around me for about 30 minutes right after I killed my deer, that had close to 8" bases and the 161" deer was a straight up 10 ptr. All the bucks killed were nice.
Year before last, they had one good buck on camera, ONE. It was 300 yards or so in front of where I hunt on there property. I knew nothing about the pic. They killed 4 great bucks that season, none of them were on a camera anywhere around (more people hunting a couple farms and they all run cameras) and I killed the buck, a 159" and change 14 ptr. No cameras are run on the farm we hunt, don't need to, don't want to.
It may have cost me this year, I had to pass a giant, might have grossed boone and crockett, a for sure mature buck walked by me at 40 yards behind a doe. Might I have passed on the deer I killed (a 147" 8 ptr) this year if I had a pic of the buck in the attached pic before I hunted, most likely. Does it matter to me, nope, I am for sure happy with a 147" deer, much less and 8 ptr and I like to hunt and don't need or want a camera to do the hunting for me, that is my opinion. 3rd time it has happened there in the dozen or so years that I have hunted there, that is seeing what is a giant in anyone's eyes after I had already tagged. Crazy thing is, no one had pic of any of those 3 bucks that we know of around us, and there is a ton of cameras all around where we hunt, I would not be surprised if there are over 100 cameras being run around us, maybe a couple hundred. None on the farm we hunt.
