TWRA doesn't track hunter participation so it's impossible to know.
What the data does seem to indicate is that the fanning isn't taking out more of the adult population in the first 2 weeks like has been claimed. (And not just here)
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Help Support TNDeer:
The case for banning the fan. Outdoor life
- Thread starter Bgoodman30
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What the data does seem to indicate is that the fanning isn't taking out more of the adult population in the first 2 weeks like has been claimed. (And not just here)
I'm not following how you are determining that based on your graph. That just shows number of reported doesn't show or able to show dominance or age of bird. Also fanning/decoys we're not invented in 2006.
The data shows that the number and/or percentage of jakes harvested saw very little change when comparing the years. If fanning truly takes out the mature gobblers early in the season, you would expect to see that percentage higher now vs then. But it's not.
Yes, fanning wasn't used hardly at all during that time. That's the point. We're comparing when it was and wasn't used. The percentage of young birds (or adult birds depending on how you look at it) stayed very similar.
For what it's worth, I'm not pro or anti fanning. I'm just trying to let the data lead me.
Setterman
Well-Known Member
I've studied this for hours now, and for the life of me can't draw really any conclusions other than how many birds total were killed .
Sorry, I really tried and appreciate you posting those graphs
You have ignored me already, for whatever reason, but please answer this question.…
How in the world, looking at harvest data, do you know if a 2yr+ male is a dominate breeder or not? Thats the point of this entire case.
You mentioned mature gobblers, the whole premise is dominate males. The graphs your posting are jakes vs non jake males.
Like setterman I appreciate your efforts but I'm failing to understand your logic.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
For what it's worth, I feel similarly about decoys in general.
But, regarding fanning-reaping, I am very against that tactic
because it's very unsafe and makes it more difficult to make, my opinion,
ethical head shots. Many the birds killed by fanning are blown all to pieces,
and not edible. To me, that is just wrong.
I'm not ignoring you, but this forum is extremely low on my list of priorities. That being said, my apologies for just now getting back to you.
I'm not aware of any state that tracks dominate breeder bird harvest. There may be some, and if you are aware of any, please let me know. Therefore, if that is the case, the argument that fanning takes out the breeder birds can't be statistically verified either.
As for the TWRA data, no it does not track dominate breeder bird harvest. But we can make some assumptions based on the data. This is commonly done in statistical analysis.
We know that not all adult birds are dominate birds. But all dominate birds are adults. So if the % of adult birds increased with the advent of fanning, then logically we could conclude they are connected. However, the data does not indicate a trend or significant increase in adult bird harvest with any lasting pattern.
Agreed. I think it's very dangerous and I would never suggest anyone partake in the activity. But I think the safety aspect of fanning is different from the impact to population stance.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
Very logical conclusion based on the data presented. Wonder why so many hens are not initiating nests at all any longer? That's what we have to figure out to stem the population decline.
Thank you but I don't think your understanding the point of the case. The author is claiming fanning makes it easier to kill a dominant bird. If someone kills 4 birds in 2006 and eventually takes up fanning and still kills 4 birds 15 years later in 2021, then based on the case by the author, he likely had a increase in dominant bird kills the more he used the fan.
I don't believe for one second basic harvest data can determine if that's true or false.
However, this last paragraph is interesting. With Poult production declining and harvest staying relatively steady, is that not a increase in % of adult birds (adult males/population total)?
The original question I was referencing you as ignoring was decreased poult production vs a steady harvest of adult males (even with a reduction in limits). Since we have a correlation between fanning (using your 2006 date) and a continual decline in poult production, is that causation? More dominant males being taken out causing hens not to nest, sporadic nesting, etc?
Im just playing devils advocate here with the data and reasoning you provided. End of the day Im leaving it to the PhDs who get paid to study this stuff, I already know what they say….
Setterman
Well-Known Member
when the 4 bird was implemented and myself along with many others in this thread railed against it as being bad news, so many came at us that it wouldn't have an effect. Now we've dropped to 3 birds statewide proving we were right.
At some point decoys and fans will hit the dumpster because once again we were right.
Fanning, decoys, and tents became popular and right on time the population, poult production, and hen nest initiation went on a downward trend. It's all there in the data if you want to see it.
Weather, habitat, predators, etc have been around this entire time. It wasn't until the above tactics popped up that the yugo hit the fan.
Cling to your tactics and dig in, but I'd bet a river bottom farm in the next few years myself and others who post here will be proven right. Just like with the 4 bird limit
At some point decoys and fans will hit the dumpster because once again we were right.
Fanning, decoys, and tents became popular and right on time the population, poult production, and hen nest initiation went on a downward trend. It's all there in the data if you want to see it.
Weather, habitat, predators, etc have been around this entire time. It wasn't until the above tactics popped up that the yugo hit the fan.
Cling to your tactics and dig in, but I'd bet a river bottom farm in the next few years myself and others who post here will be proven right. Just like with the 4 bird limit
Duck dogn
Well-Known Member
All jokes aside I think some states have banned mojos for ducks
That must have changed sometime after I left when I was stationed there in 1989. After retiring in 2003, I'd make several trips there each fall for deer. The last time I hunted there was about 2014, and I haven't been back since that new Garrison Commander came in changing the policies and hunting regs on-post, then implementing the ISportsman system. I live 300 miles east, near the North Carolina & Virginia state lines. Guess my hunting days there are far back in that rearview mirror now!
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Im all for outlawing it.
I cannot remember when it changed but in the early 2000's you could hunt some of the rear areas with a rifle.
wilsonj
Member
I don't think I would do it on public or private land. Too dangerous. Never know when a poacher is hunting illegally on private land.
deerhunter10
Well-Known Member
Very good article. The people saying habitat Predators and all the others. Yal doing you part in that? or yal just mad about getting called out because you cant kill one without a fan. I will do what ever I have to do to be able to hunt this bird for the rest of my life. Never agreed with fanning from the get go get rid of it and the decoys.
Fanning/decoys been at the front of this problem from the start IMO. As someone else said. It ain't rocket science With our early season you take out a high percentage of the breeding birds in the first week and guess what. You've really disturbed their whole cycle The nesting success rates plummet and you've got a overall decline in birds I never thought I'd say this but I'm actually proud of Twra for the changes Granted they're late but it's better than never
BigRod
Well-Known Member
You can't please everybody, but you can always make accommodations imo. I think everyone can agree that reaping is the most dangerous way of hunting them. Decoys however aren't dangerous at all, but as @Setterman said they take out the dominant birds first. Even though it's to late, my proposal would be to ban reaping for good and only allow decoys after the first three weeks. With the season already pushed backed the birds already have that 2 weeks time to breed. Add three weeks without decoys and call it good!
Actually, nesting success rates haven't changed that much. Even according to some of the most recent TWRA data.
But real data takes a lot of fun out of playing internet biologist. Social media has created a ton of em!
