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the great debate...Pattern tightness

Lack of practice...some guys think too much...raising your head, misses in general have many reasons.

I shoot a choke that came with my shotgun, what is it, I don't know? It came with a modified and a extra full.

But I have killed at 53 paces and as close as 7 paces and all the paces in between. I have killed geese at 80 yards. My shotgun is my only shotgun...whether skeet/sporting clay, duck, goose, dove, turkey, and deer.

KNOW YOUR GUN!
 
FLIPPER said:
Lack of practice...some guys think too much...raising your head, misses in general have many reasons.

I shoot a choke that came with my shotgun, what is it, I don't know? It came with a modified and a extra full.

But I have killed at 53 paces and as close as 7 paces and all the paces in between. I have killed geese at 80 yards. My shotgun is my only shotgun...whether skeet/sporting clay, duck, goose, dove, turkey, and deer.

KNOW YOUR GUN!
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deer? not in Tn... ;)
 
i dont see the big deal in all of this pattern mess. I never patterned my gun for 5 years and killed turkeys without a problem, with the factory modified choke in my mossberg 835 and i continue to use it. dunno why people spend all that money on these fancy chokes n shells? it dont take 290 pellets to kill a turkey, just 1.
 
Goose Thumper said:
i dont see the big deal in all of this pattern mess. I never patterned my gun for 5 years and killed turkeys without a problem, with the factory modified choke in my mossberg 835 and i continue to use it. dunno why people spend all that money on these fancy chokes n shells? it dont take 290 pellets to kill a turkey, just 1.
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while i agree for the most part the "mine works" stance has some holes imo....i mean digital cable works, HD is much easier to see and makes watching it more enjoyable.

things can always be better and other things can make your % go up. if the IT WORKS was always applied to turkey or deer hunting everyone would be out there in flannel shirts and jeans with calls made of rocks and sticks.

I am not against anyone who uses what works for them and i know plenty of guys that still shoot shotguns you cant even put a choke in with 2 3/4 lead shells. Yup they still kill them and yes dead is dead but if it can 100% increase my odds and is affordable to me then i will look into it.
 
REN said:
I am not against anyone who uses what works for them and i know plenty of guys that still shoot shotguns you cant even put a choke in with 2 3/4 lead shells. Yup they still kill them and yes dead is dead but if it can 100% increase my odds and is affordable to me then i will look into it.
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I agree, but a 100% increase in one's odds? :D

Let me ask it this way.

If you were hunting most any other "bird" with a shotgun, and the average range at which you expected to get a shot was 25 yards, average range at which most these "birds" were killed was 25 yards . . . . . .
Tell me, how could a heavier load and tighter choke increase my odds 100%?

Until about 3 years ago, I had been using a 12-ga side-by-side with 2 3/4" chambers for my turkey hunting. I had several reasons for using this particular gun, one of which was it didn't "rattle" and make noise with each step I took (like the popular pump guns). Another was at any split second, I had a choice of either of two chokes and two different loads (something no one has with a pump or automatic). And even with 28" barrels, it was still about the same overall length as a pump with a 24" barrel. Back-bored, custom choked full and extra-full, light as a feather, I was quite happy with it as a turkey gun.

And I never felt handicapped with this gun, even though it only had 2 3/4" chambers.

Only reason I went to an automatic specialty "turkey" gun was to go to a scope (which I didn't want to mount on a side-by-side). Now, with my Indian Creek choke and if using 3 1/2" mule-kicking shells, I can increase my effective killing range by about 7 yards over the SxS. At the same time, I'm more likely to miss a bird at 10 yards. IMO, the scope is the main advantage I've gained, and the overall advantage isn't much.
 
Goose Thumper said:
i dont see the big deal in all of this pattern mess. I never patterned my gun for 5 years and killed turkeys without a problem,
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I can speak from one experience which is a great example of why to pattern a gun before season, whether it be with turkey loads or just low brass dove loads. A buddy of mine had a 870 wood stock that would have been a nightmare turkey hunting had he not patterned it before hand. Why? Because the point of aim and the point of impact were way off left. He had to end up getting the stock shimmed to correct his problem. If he would have hunted with it for five years, his turkey seasons would have been a comedy series at best. Another friend of mine took his 8 year old son squirrel hunting a few years back and could not for the life of him figure out why his son missed so many squirrels with the old 20 gauge that his granddad had passed down. After a morning of missing 10-12 squirrels in a hickory tree, he inspected the gun, talked to a cousin and discovered that the gun had a bent barrel. It was not noticeable to the human eye but it was very noticeable when we patterned it on paper. Just some examples here of why every hunter needs to take the time to at least make sure the point of aim is truly the point of impact. It is a bummer to discover all of this after you have wasted days afield hunting and possibly missed opportunities. My .02
 
Wes Parrish said:
REN said:
I am not against anyone who uses what works for them and i know plenty of guys that still shoot shotguns you cant even put a choke in with 2 3/4 lead shells. Yup they still kill them and yes dead is dead but if it can 100% increase my odds and is affordable to me then i will look into it.
Click to expand...
I agree, but a 100% increase in one's odds? :D

Let me ask it this way.

If you were hunting most any other "bird" with a shotgun, and the average range at which you expected to get a shot was 25 yards, average range at which most these "birds" were killed was 25 yards . . . . . .
Tell me, how could a heavier load and tighter choke increase my odds 100%?

Until about 3 years ago, I had been using a 12-ga side-by-side with 2 3/4" chambers for my turkey hunting. I had several reasons for using this particular gun, one of which was it didn't "rattle" and make noise with each step I took (like the popular pump guns). Another was at any split second, I had a choice of either of two chokes and two different loads (something no one has with a pump or automatic). And even with 28" barrels, it was still about the same overall length as a pump with a 24" barrel. Back-bored, custom choked full and extra-full, light as a feather, I was quite happy with it as a turkey gun.

And I never felt handicapped with this gun, even though it only had 2 3/4" chambers.

Only reason I went to an automatic specialty "turkey" gun was to go to a scope (which I didn't want to mount on a side-by-side). Now, with my Indian Creek choke and if using 3 1/2" mule-kicking shells, I can increase my effective killing range by about 7 yards over the SxS. At the same time, I'm more likely to miss a bird at 10 yards. IMO, the scope is the main advantage I've gained, and the overall advantage isn't much.
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well i meant more that it WILL in fact increase my odds compared to what i did have. not that it would allow me 100% success rate but i know what you meant.

as for the other part...IMO a heavier load will increase killing odds. Yes dead is dead but you hit someone with a hammer in the head they will PROB die, you hit them with an anvil and they ARE going to die is all i meant.

Now i am not in the 40yds club and dont care to be so the SUPER tight choke is not my need, i just want a choke that has a great even pattern at 30yds...My old one didnt and i got a GREAT deal on an IC choke so i went with it. I really like the Hevi #7 but may not even hunt with it because of how tight the pattern is. I have mentioned on here plenty of times that i dont care to kill a bird at 40yds..just not my style HOWEVER if the need arose i would like to know i COULD.

I shot an old 870 with whatever shells i could find at walmart with a $12 undertaker choke in the gun for a LONG time and never had issues with it. I went to an auto loader just for the lightness of the gun and less recoil. I dont shoot 3.5 shells and never will do it again.

my whole point is what works for you is great and if you have not money to upgrade or no desire to do so the that too is fine but upgrading is not always a bad thing. Long bows WORK but not many use them anymore because compound bows helped people increase their odds.
 
Great topic REN,.. one i have thought about for several years. Its important to know what your gun will do on paper before you go to the woods,.. but at what point is to much? I think it has more to do with a hunters confidence in his/her gun before they go into the woods,.. no matter how many pellets is in that 10 inch circle,... some hunters feel more confident with 250 pellets in a 10 inch circle,.. some far less. If it makes that hunter more confident,.. and he knows his gun,.. its all good.

when i started out,.. i was only getting 60 to 80 pellets in a 10 inch circle at 40. i killed birds that way,.. but knew 40 was my max. After upgrading,.. i'm now happy with my 150 to 160 pellet count in a 10 inch circle at 40,.. and if needed,.. it will knock them down at 50 if that bird hangs up on me. i don't feel i need anymore than that,.. the 3 inch extended range in #6 out of my 870 has proven effective on paper,.. and is deadly between 20 to 50 yards in the feild. I'm happy and confident in my set up,.. meaning peace of mind in the woods.
 
You know I kind of just laugh at people that don't really have any idea of what they are talking about on subjects like this one here. When you shoot a turkey up close at 20yds with any Hevi-13 load out of a tight turkey choke, you better aim small and miss small. Your pattern is going to be super tight out of any good turkey choke exit diameter even if your shooting a .655 to say .690 exit diameter. And anyone that misses and blames the Hevi-Shot loads needs to spend more time shooting and patterning there gun or set up where birds don't get so close, or learn to shoot them before they or right on top of them.

I'll take what I now have in both my turkey guns and chokes vs over what I was getting with lead loads anyday. It is night and day difference. I would much rather have 250-300 shot in a 10" at 40 vs maybe 130 with lead anyday. I know when I shoot a bird at 50yds or maybe slightly farther that he still is going to hit the ground.
 

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