Vote to lower limits

[TheLBLman]

For the quantity of days, quantity of kills, for a few,
the quality of the overall hunting,
gets degraded for most?

Sshhhhhhhh. I ALWAYS prefer May over April

Personally, for a variety of reasons, my personal preference for a 14-day turkey hunt is the 2nd & 3rd week of April.

I'd even be totally happy if our TN turkey season was only a 9-day season
beginning the 2nd Saturday in April.

Sometimes we get too much of a good thing
and it just really isn't all that good, after too much.
That said, I do see the merit in spreading out the hunting over a 4-week time horizon,
just to have more elbow room in the turkey woods per day of hunting.

But then, I've always preferred quality over quantity.
I'll take one or two birds a year, that "play the game"
over any desire to just "deer hunt" or long-range shoot a turkey.

To me, nothing better than hearing lots of gobbling, drumming,
and having a longbeard under 30 yards putting on that show,
for many minutes, before you pull the trigger.

 

[megalomaniac]

After the first 9 days turkey hunting on
Y little piece of the world is awful.

More about the first 9 days of hunting
than the beginning date of those 9 days.

Yup, it never ceases to amaze me how fast gobblers adapt to hunting pressure and learn to shut the heck up on the ground to survive. I haven't heard a gobble in almost 4 weeks here in MS. But hunting pressure has drastically declined on the public ground I've been working, so I am actually expecting to strike a bird this weekend. At least that's what I'm telling myself And our hens have been setting for the past 3 weeks down here.

 

[muddyboots]

After the first 9 days turkey hunting on
Y little piece of the world is awful.

IMO, this is typically the case regardless
whether the season were to open in March, April, or May.

After 9 days (which includes 2 weekends),
the 2-yr-old (and older) male class has typically been reduced by @ 50% plus.
Those loud-mouthed "stupid" birds are now all dead.

Those survivors are the smartest of that class.
They shut up.
They are now much more hunter wise,
at least until the first 9 days of next year's turkey season.

More about the first 9 days of hunting
than the beginning date of those 9 days.

Maybe. But when limit was 2 this 9 days seemed to last 18 days or so. Much better hunting in my book.

 

[muddyboots]

I also hunted a property other day that has not been hunted at all. Same story. This time of year on my neck of the woods is very very tough hunting.

 

[Rockhound]

I also hunted a property other day that has not been hunted at all. Same story. This time of year on my neck of the woods is very very tough hunting.

It's geta better this time of season where I hunt in Hardin county

 

[JCDEERMAN]

I also hunted a property other day that has not been hunted at all. Same story. This time of year on my neck of the woods is very very tough hunting.

I usually see (and hear) the same on our property with hardly any pressure after about mid-April. We are seeing a lot of lone hens

 

[ImThere]

I cannot imagine TWRA-COMMISSIONERS making ANY changes to our TN turkey regs.

there fixed it for you!
there's to much out of state hunters money to push out two weeks
lowering the limit will have to much in state push back
IMHO

 

[Bgoodman30]

After the first 9 days turkey hunting on
Y little piece of the world is awful.

IMO, this is typically the case regardless
whether the season were to open in March, April, or May.

After 9 days (which includes 2 weekends),
the 2-yr-old (and older) male class has typically been reduced by @ 50% plus.
Those loud-mouthed "stupid" birds are now all dead.

Those survivors are the smartest of that class.
They shut up.
They are now much more hunter wise,
at least until the first 9 days of next year's turkey season.

More about the first 9 days of hunting
than the beginning date of those 9 days.

Maybe. But when limit was 2 this 9 days seemed to last 18 days or so. Much better hunting in my book.

\

Yeah but a lot of things have changed since then, maybe even the turkeys as well. Its not the limit.. Most people only kill 2 or less anyways.

 

[TheLBLman]

Yeah but a lot of things have changed since then, maybe even the turkeys as well.
Its not the limit.. Most people only kill 2 or less anyways.

I beg to differ regarding the limit.
Do agree about a "lot" of things have changed,
but the limit is just one of those things.

Our limit has DOUBLED in going from 2 to 4 birds.

We also have lots quite a few birds to fall turkey hunting (something we didn't used to have at all in TN).

We now have twice as many turkey hunters.
What does it matter if "not many" only kill 1 or 2 birds?
Most are hellbent on trying to kill 4,
and the increase in non-residents hunters trying to do that in the first week is a huge change?

Our shotguns now have TWICE the range of what we hunted with over 20 years ago?

Then there is the increase in fanning, decoying, pop-up blinds, and all kinds of all-day "comfort"
we just didn't have, seems not that long ago.

There is also an increase in predation, some previously unfathomably,
like bald eagles purposefully coming more inland for the apparent sole purpose of hunting turkeys.
Coyotes & bobcats are now frequently seen in mid-day, hunting turkeys,
so it's not just the human hunters who have become more efficient turkey killers.

Add to all this so many after Facebook recognition who are killing (or poaching) by any means possible just to post their kills on Facebook (maybe even on TnDeer and/or YouTube as well).

Bottom line:

About the only factors we can work with our season start/end dates, and the turkey "limit"?

 

[Bgoodman30]

Yeah but a lot of things have changed since then, maybe even the turkeys as well.
Its not the limit.. Most people only kill 2 or less anyways.

I beg to differ regarding the limit.
Do agree about a "lot" of things have changed,
but the limit is just one of those things.

Our limit has DOUBLED in going from 2 to 4 birds.

We also have lots quite a few birds to fall turkey hunting (something we didn't used to have at all in TN).

We now have twice as many turkey hunters.
What does it matter if "not many" only kill 1 or 2 birds?
Most are hellbent on trying to kill 4,
and the increase in non-residents hunters trying to do that in the first week is a huge change?

Our shotguns now have TWICE the range of what we hunted with over 20 years ago?

Then there is the increase in fanning, decoying, pop-up blinds, and all kinds of all-day "comfort"
we just didn't have, seems not that long ago.

There is also an increase in predation, some previously unfathomably,
like bald eagles purposefully coming more inland for the apparent sole purpose of hunting turkeys.
Coyotes & bobcats are now frequently seen in mid-day, hunting turkeys,
so it's not just the human hunters who have become more efficient turkey killers.

Add to all this so many after Facebook recognition who are killing (or poaching) by any means possible just to post their kills on Facebook (maybe even on TnDeer as well).

Bottom line:

About the only factors we can work with our season start/end dates, and the turkey "limit"?

You bring up many of the factors working against the wild turkey. Some things we can't control some things we can. TWICE the hunters is the biggest factor I believe. Those hunters aren't going to go away if the limit is lowered they will still kill 2 or less birds.

I am not sure about eagles either. We have literally killed 3 turkeys directly under an eagles nest. I mean right under it we call the spot eagles nest. The birds roost right by it.

I think if they will really want to make an impact they will move the season back a week or two. The limit will work out itself and the marginal number of hunters who kill 3-4 will decrease. Does anyone know the actual number of hunters who harvested 3-4 turkeys last year? I am trying to find that information.

 

[bloodtrailing]

Yeah but a lot of things have changed since then, maybe even the turkeys as well.
Its not the limit.. Most people only kill 2 or less anyways.

I beg to differ regarding the limit.
Do agree about a "lot" of things have changed,
but the limit is just one of those things.

Our limit has DOUBLED in going from 2 to 4 birds.

We also have lots quite a few birds to fall turkey hunting (something we didn't used to have at all in TN).

We now have twice as many turkey hunters.
What does it matter if "not many" only kill 1 or 2 birds?
Most are hellbent on trying to kill 4,
and the increase in non-residents hunters trying to do that in the first week is a huge change?

Our shotguns now have TWICE the range of what we hunted with over 20 years ago?

Then there is the increase in fanning, decoying, pop-up blinds, and all kinds of all-day "comfort"
we just didn't have, seems not that long ago.

There is also an increase in predation, some previously unfathomably,
like bald eagles purposefully coming more inland for the apparent sole purpose of hunting turkeys.
Coyotes & bobcats are now frequently seen in mid-day, hunting turkeys,
so it's not just the human hunters who have become more efficient turkey killers.

Add to all this so many after Facebook recognition who are killing (or poaching) by any means possible just to post their kills on Facebook (maybe even on TnDeer as well).

Bottom line:

About the only factors we can work with our season start/end dates, and the turkey "limit"?

You bring up many of the factors working against the wild turkey. Some things we can't control some things we can. TWICE the hunters is the biggest factor I believe. Those hunters aren't going to go away if the limit is lowered they will still kill 2 or less birds.

I am not sure about eagles either. We have literally killed 3 turkeys directly under an eagles nest. I mean right under it we call the spot eagles nest. The birds roost right by it.

I think if they will really want to make an impact they will move the season back a week or two. The limit will work out itself and the marginal number of hunters who kill 3-4 will decrease. Does anyone know the actual number of hunters who harvested 3-4 turkeys last year? I am trying to find that information.

You just said above in this thread most kill 2 or less so I thought you knew.


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[TheLBLman]

Some things we can't control some things we can.
TWICE the hunters is the biggest factor I believe.

Those hunters aren't going to go away if the limit is lowered they will still kill 2 or less birds.

I agree, the number of hunters will be virtually unchanged it the limit were lowered from 4 to 2 birds.

But I also believe there would be significantly less turkeys killed with this limit reduction,
and it's really not so much about how many are currently killing 3 or 4 a year.

Does anyone know the actual number of hunters who harvested 3-4 turkeys last year?

Back when the turkey limit was simply 2, a couple years in a row, I "limited out" in the first 2 days of the season.
Then it hit me:
I was "done", couldn't turkey hunt again until next year,
yet I'd only gotten in a couple days of turkey hunting.

But to put things in a better perspective, back then, most hunters didn't kill "a" turkey, much less 2 turkeys annually.
Today's hunters are much more efficient at killing turkeys than a few decades ago.

The next year, I decided I would "hold back", and not kill a 2nd turkey unless either
I was about "done" hunting for the year,
or the bird actually "played the game", and, that bird must be a really nice longbeard, meaning one I thought was a 3-yr-old or older bird.

I can now say over the years I've passed up about as many 2-yr-old acting longbeards (talking only high-probability shots)
as I've decided to kill.
That change for me started when a 2nd bird would end my hunting, or I should say personal turkey "killing".

Today, many avid & accomplished hunters simply hop from state to state, limiting out or killing lots of turkeys in multiple states.
Once you figure out how to kill turkeys, it's really not as hard as we once thought.

Today, any killing restraint on my behalf typically has little to do with the turkey limit, but relatively few hunters share my thinking.
Last week, I passed up an easy kill shot on a strutting 3-yr-old (or older) Tom, which was "playing the game".
Why?
Because I had another hunter sitting beside me, one who hadn't killed a turkey since 2018, and I just preferred to see her kill one than for me to kill another one.

A 2-bird limit would contribute greatly to more people adopting these kind of thoughts.
You can still enjoy the turkey hunting, maybe enjoy it even a lot more.

Kinda comes back to the overall quality of the days
vs the overall quantity of the kills?

 

[TheLBLman]

No matter what the limit, whether we're talking Buck Deer or Tom Turkeys,
many hunters will in fact "hold back" one less than the limit,
just so they may continue "playing the game".

When the limit was 2,
many killed 1 or 2.

When the limit is 4,
many kill 2 or 3,
and some kill 4.

But 2 is 100% more than 1,
and 3 is 50% more than 2.

Limits do matter.

If the limit were just 1,
how eager would you be to kill that one?
Ask a deer hunter in Kentucky how that works.
To some degree, it still applies to turkey hunting.
And, no, I do not want a 1-bird limit in TN,
but do like the appeal of two.

 

[BackwoodsBoy]

I can agree with that, I live in a 2 bird state now (WV) and typically my spring hunting I will shoot the first longbeard that I call in (and yes only if he "plays the game") after that I am very picky because I dont want to be done... on the other hand I started hunting in Ohio later in the season but they suspended NR license sale due to the Rona, I killed one 3rd day of our season and called one in for a friend now going to go with my brother a bit, I'm toting my gun but I dont want to shoot another just yet

 

[BackwoodsBoy]

I have nothing against 4 but if the populations is suffering something should give... I'm originally from the land of deer and turkey (Montgomery co) so it's easy for one to assume that TN is absolutely loaded with birds and there's no problem.

Good reading on this thread

 

[SEC]

What about a state like Missouri? There regulations seem flawless regarding wild turkey management yet there population is trending downward statewide. 2 bird limit 3 week season and you can't hunt past 1:00pm and the turkeys still aren't reproducing like they did 10-15 years ago.

 

[megalomaniac]

What about a state like Missouri? There regulations seem flawless regarding wild turkey management yet there population is trending downward statewide. 2 bird limit 3 week season and you can't hunt past 1:00pm and the turkeys still aren't reproducing like they did 10-15 years ago.

Thats EXACTLY what we fear will happen in TN. Even with the best management, turkeys are struggling. With the blatant mismanagement TN has experienced the past 15 years, we could literally go to an unhuntable population in just 2 years.

2 schools of thought... be proactive and try to increase turkey numbers for our kids and grandkids; or just enjoy what we have at the moment until it's gone.

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[AT Hiker]

What about a state like Missouri? There regulations seem flawless regarding wild turkey management yet there population is trending downward statewide. 2 bird limit 3 week season and you can't hunt past 1:00pm and the turkeys still aren't reproducing like they did 10-15 years ago.

Good question. Which leads you to think why the poster child of turkey management is suffering from a downward trend? Why are other states not taking a proactive approach?


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[deerfever]

I would love to hear an explanation on this also SEC. Missouri killed over 60,000 birds in 2004 I believe it was. Now they kill 35,000 in 2018, 38,000.in 2019. TN has killed over 30,000 since 2000 all but 2018 but TWRA constantly gets blasted and accused of mismanagement but yet our state has remained pretty steady for 20 years. Imagine dropping almost 25 to 30,000 birds in harvest? Please some of you that know more than me explain how that happened in Missouri? I know what their biologist said in a game and fish magazine, but since they have all the regulations that so many push, I want to hear your take on it. That one has me stumped also,How did harvest drop so much?

 

[SEC]

I would love to hear an explanation on this also SEC. Missouri killed over 60,000 birds in 2004 I believe it was. Now they kill 35,000 in 2018, 38,000.in 2019. TN has killed over 30,000 since 2000 all but 2018 but TWRA constantly gets blasted and accused of mismanagement but yet our state has remained pretty steady for 20 years. Imagine dropping almost 25 to 30,000 birds in harvest? Please some of you that know more than me explain how that happened in Missouri? I know what their biologist said in a game and fish magazine, but since they have all the regulations that so many push, I want to hear your take on it. That one has me stumped also,How did harvest drop so much?

Missouri's poults per hen numbers just keep falling. There just not able to reproduce like they used to. I personally believe its mostly a prededation problem with some bad luck weather mixed in. Just as we've become better turkey hunters with 20 years of practice so have the coons, coyotes, bobcats, owls and everything else that enjoys a good turkey dinner. I personally witnessed a coyote do something the other day that really opened my eyes. He was out Turkey hunting that morning and he was very good at what he was doing.