Agree or Disagree?

[TheLBLman]

Whoever thought reintroducing wolves was a good idea is an idiot.

How is that a whole lot different than reintroducing bears & cougars into various parts of TN where they've not previously existed for over 100 yrs?
Just to be clear, I'm opposed to expanding bear populations in TN, opposed to introducing non-native western cougars (just because we once had the extinct eastern cougar).

In Nature, the adult sex ratio is around 1.2 does per buck. The ratio of adult does is slightly higher because they naturally live longer than bucks.

Ironically, at birth, there are slightly more male than female fawns born.

Predation (in TN, primarily dogs & coyotes) tends to be more on the very young & the very old (the weakest animals), but bucks are more often "weaker" due to their rut behavior (not eating, running themselves to exhaustion seeking does).

Bucks, particularly button bucks, are naturally more "curious" and "brave", and tend to expose themselves more to all types of mortal danger, more so than female deer. If a dog is stalking a group of deer, a button buck may just walk up to the dog, while the other deer watch what happens next.

 

[Chiflyguy]

How is that a whole lot different than reintroducing bears & cougars into various parts of TN where they've not previously existed for over 100 yrs?

Probably not a good idea either

 

[deerhunter10]

i watched a podcast where a biologist (of some flavor) stated that deer population are way down in the midwest- illinois specifically only had half the deer they had 20 years ago?

Ehd can be a part of that to. When I went in 2012 the amount of dead deer was mind blowing. The property we hunted had 3 ponds and you couldn't hardly take a step without stepping on bones. And I think they had a bad one on 2019 and some reports of it this year as well.

 

[Wooden Arrow]

opposed to introducing non-native western cougars

un-named biologists working in the GSM National Park have been quoted in interviews saying that there is a small population of cougars in the Smokies, anywhere from a dozen to maybe twenty. have seen nothing on whether those are a remnant island population of easterns, released exotic pets, transient cats from out west/up from Florida, or ? there were reliable sightings/tracks found of a female with 2 kittens at her side outside of Chattanooga a few years back. one was photographed (and picture verified by TWRA) outside of Elizabethton a couple of years back. i have found what i'm pretty sure were tracks in streamside sand where one watered in the Pond Mt. wilderness, and a friend found a deer killed there with leaves etc scraped up onto it... i'd give a bundle to actually see one, now that i've seen elk here. bucket list stuff right there!

 

[Wooden Arrow]

I've hunted there a couple times. Some huge bucks in there...

one of their bigger ones was found tangled in a fence dead a couple of years ago. he had gone downhill (allegedly 9 yrs old) but still measured out at about 170 B&C... "moose", i think they called him. tame as a cow, he walked right up to us one day while we were putting gas in our van for the shift. very impressive!

 

[MUP]

1:1 ratio, it is the human way after all, sometimes.

 

[Rakkin6]

un-named biologists working in the GSM National Park have been quoted in interviews saying that there is a small population of cougars in the Smokies, anywhere from a dozen to maybe twenty. have seen nothing on whether those are a remnant island population of easterns, released exotic pets, transient cats from out west/up from Florida, or ? there were reliable sightings/tracks found of a female with 2 kittens at her side outside of Chattanooga a few years back. one was photographed (and picture verified by TWRA) outside of Elizabethton a couple of years back. i have found what i'm pretty sure were tracks in streamside sand where one watered in the Pond Mt. wilderness, and a friend found a deer killed there with leaves etc scraped up onto it... i'd give a bundle to actually see one, now that i've seen elk here. bucket list stuff right there!

Well cougars are cool but I don't know if I necessarily want to bump into one in the woods. Maybe from a really.good distance away but definitely not just randomly in the woods. Talk about needing to change my underoos. Lol

 

[mike243]

So where all has twra released lions and bear? must've missed that article?

 

[knightrider]

So where all has twra released lions and bear? must've missed that article?

You wont see an article in the bears they release, just there green trucks with barrels behind them with a gatlinburg problem bear inside, they have dumped them all over once Virginia, Kentucky and Georgia told them thats enough we dont want anymore! Instead if shooting the pain in the a$$ vermains they release them on people who dont wont them

 

[DoubleRidge]

Well cougars are cool but I don't know if I necessarily want to bump into one in the woods. Maybe from a really.good distance away but definitely not just randomly in the woods. Talk about needing to change my underoos. Lol

While hunting mule deer in Colorado I found mountain lion tracks but never actually saw one and while back in camp talking about it a local made a comment I wont ever forget...He said that for every lion you see that you can bet ten have seen you...I will admit his comment was in my head the next morning while heading up the mountain in the dark.

 

[Lost Lake]

1:1 ratio, it is the human way after all, sometimes.

When I was a younger, single man, I much preferred the 1:10 male/female ratio. I tried my best to linger in that type habitat

 

[Lost Lake]

While hunting mule deer in Colorado I found mountain lion tracks but never actually saw one and while back in camp talking about it a local made a comment I wont ever forget...He said that for every lion you see that you can bet ten have seen you...I will admit his comment was in my head the next morning while heading up the mountain in the dark.

I heard the very same thing.

On my first bowhunting trip to Colorado, I ran into the Ag Extension Agent while I was packing a Mule Deer out. As we talked, he mentioned that I needed to be careful hunting by myself and taking naps out in the brush. He said that undoubtedly, a lion or two had watched me.

He said that La Plata county opened and closed its lion season the year before in two hours, and accidentally took one over their quota. They had been having lots of lion/ livestock predation problems.

My buddies and I hunted together after that, and got pretty good at one-eyed sleeping. I don't feel that they enhanced my outdoor experience in any form. There's no way I'd want those things around here.

 

[redblood]

I have had the opportunity to study unhunted herds covering vast areas. In Nature, the adult sex ratio is around 1.2 does per buck. The ratio of does is slightly higher because thy naturally live longer than bucks.

There is another factor. I learned about it in college but it is very important in our business- which is shipping frozen and chilled semen. X and Y chromosomes are produced in equal numbers. Obviously the x is the female sperm cell and y is the male (vastly simplified of course). When our clients time breedings, timing of the breeding during the fertile period (just last ovulation) can be manipulated to produce a higher likelihood of one sex versus the other. The female sperm cell is slightly more resilient and is more likely to use energy reserves slower (sperm cells are not living but carry generic material and have an energy reserve that promotes mobilty). Since the energy is consumed slower, they tend to be viable longer. If breedings take place well ahead if ovulating , maybe a day or two- a higher percentage of female sperms cells are viable when the egg has "ripened" and is capable of fertilization. Since in nature, animals breed multiple times during an estrus cycle, there is s slightly higher percentage of female offspring born. Typically 51 to 54 percent. That would probably fall in line with the 1.2 to 1 ratio.

As part of graduate study, we found this percentage to be consistent ( over a cycle of years) from birth records of commercial sheep, goat, swine snd cattle producers . I think the sampling records were from 1992 to 1998 ( but i may be off a yr or two). Only farms that kept impeccable records and tagged and weighed offspring at birth were utilized.

Summary- a buck that is not worried about peak fertility but rather cashing in on receptivity is likely going to breed the doe a bit early. When she is actually fertile (egg can actually be fertilized) more female sperm cells will still be wiggling.

 

[Ski]

While hunting mule deer in Colorado I found mountain lion tracks but never actually saw one and while back in camp talking about it a local made a comment I wont ever forget...He said that for every lion you see that you can bet ten have seen you...I will admit his comment was in my head the next morning while heading up the mountain in the dark.

I've always heard they're really shy. And they must be. I lived in NM for 11yrs and only caught a glimpse of one. It sure wasn't sticking around for us to gawk at it.

 

[redblood]

1:1 ratio, it is the human way after all, sometimes.

Lol….. you havent met my father in law

 

[Wooden Arrow]

So where all has twra released lions and bear? must've missed that article?

they haven't released any lions. the bear releases are real, and were reported on as they occurred. they went into radio-collared sows dens, tranquilized them, and moved them to Big South Fork into artificial dens they had built. when the sows had tiny cubs, they couldn't try to come back east. sort of anchored the new population there...

 

[TheLBLman]

they haven't released any lions.

Depends on who "they" is, and they won't admit who did it.

A female cougar was arrowed by a bowhunter in Carroll County, TN. DNA said the female cougar came from North Dakota. Females have never been known to roam very far, unlike young males.

This cat (call it a lion if u like) didn't walk to TN. Some entity brought it to TN in the back of a truck. It now appears some of the young male cougars (also of Dakota wild origin) were brought into TN via a truck.

It wasn't and isn't legal, but quite a few people (with easy capability) greatly desire to establish cougars in Tennessee. "They" prefer cougars and other apex predators to control the deer herds more than "sport" hunters.

 

[7mmWSM]

Waiting for bucks to reach 4-5 years old is hoping for something that almost never happens in a CWD environment. A few with below average antlers might make it. We had one 5 year old buck with above average antlers harvested on 18000 acres amongst 50 hunters. So if you want kill a buck every 10 -20 years, go for it!

Fairchaser I have to disagree with you on this. We're not far from Ames and even on small parcels we have mature deer. We don't shoot them until they get mature and we have chances at more than one on each property every year. We're not like Ames with all the hunters pressuring them. I have to think with Ames pressure in the past and now that's part of the problem. I feel like this because I was a member there before.

 

[Wooden Arrow]

predators to control the deer herds more than "sport" hunters.

i understand what many would "prefer", but being realistic is important. first pet killed/child attacked, they'd want them gone...again. the "wild" aint safe...

 

[RedDawg]

This cat (call it a lion if u like) didn't walk to TN. Some entity brought it to TN in the back of a truck. It now appears some of the young male cougars (also of Dakota wild origin) were brought into TN via a truck.

Although that may be true, it isn't necessarily so. There was a mountain lion killed in Connecticut that was from South Dakota back in 2011. They have DNA samples of it in states as it walked east. They will walk a long ways. Here's a story on it.