Falcon
Member
Neither does anyone else Correct?? On my land My Deer!!
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Help Support TNDeer:
Baiting Bill HB1618/SB1942
- Thread starter bjohnson
- Start date
MickThompson
Well-Known Member
Incorrect. Everyone owns them in trust. You only control access to them while they are on your land.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
A really good gauge of sustainable deer harvests per acre in TN may be the data of several the largest WMAs.
For the 2023 deer season . . . . . . .
Catoosa WMA . . . . . . . . . . 137 antlered bucks = 1 buck per 583 acres
. . . 65 female deer = 1 doe per 1,230 acres.
Assuming 80,000 acres
LBL WMA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 216 antlered bucks = 1 buck per 278 acres
. . . 91 female deer = 1 doe per 659 acres.
Assuming 60,000 acres
I know this is just a couple WMAs, nether the best nor the worst, but you can get the idea that Mother Nature only produces so many deer per square mile, so only so many annually can be killed, AND have those kill numbers sustainable ongoing.
Deer (typically) are "free-roaming", living their lives over somewhere between several hundred & several thousand acres. We are (typically) free to hunt them on our own land or other people's land, while the deer roam more over their range, rather than just our property.
For the 2023 deer season . . . . . . .
Catoosa WMA . . . . . . . . . . 137 antlered bucks = 1 buck per 583 acres
. . . 65 female deer = 1 doe per 1,230 acres.
Assuming 80,000 acres
LBL WMA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 216 antlered bucks = 1 buck per 278 acres
. . . 91 female deer = 1 doe per 659 acres.
Assuming 60,000 acres
I know this is just a couple WMAs, nether the best nor the worst, but you can get the idea that Mother Nature only produces so many deer per square mile, so only so many annually can be killed, AND have those kill numbers sustainable ongoing.
Deer (typically) are "free-roaming", living their lives over somewhere between several hundred & several thousand acres. We are (typically) free to hunt them on our own land or other people's land, while the deer roam more over their range, rather than just our property.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I was just reviewing some data for the State of KY, and noted many think a "mediocre" deer population is 20 deer per square mile.
Well, 1 square mile is 640 acres.
640 divided by 20 = 1 deer per 32 acres.
But if 1 deer were confined to only 32 acres year-round, it might die of disease or starvation since a highly varied diet & supply of food sources are typically only found available (over course of a year) on at least a few hundred acres of diverse habit?
An another side note, one reason the State of Kentucky needs a 1-buck limit has been because of the legality of killing deer over bait. Since there simply is not enough living deer, even for every licensed hunter to kill 1, EVERYTHING is taken into account, including the ease of people with 5 acres killing deer over bait in their backyards.
I'm glad TN has a 2-buck limit, but I can see the case being made for a 1-buck limit if killing deer over bait were legalized in TN.
But I'm thinking we're as likely to see KY (and many other states) to go back to making it illegal to kill deer over bait, simply because of various issues regarding disease, ethics, and the fact wildlife is owned by the public, not by the property owner.
Well, 1 square mile is 640 acres.
640 divided by 20 = 1 deer per 32 acres.
But if 1 deer were confined to only 32 acres year-round, it might die of disease or starvation since a highly varied diet & supply of food sources are typically only found available (over course of a year) on at least a few hundred acres of diverse habit?
An another side note, one reason the State of Kentucky needs a 1-buck limit has been because of the legality of killing deer over bait. Since there simply is not enough living deer, even for every licensed hunter to kill 1, EVERYTHING is taken into account, including the ease of people with 5 acres killing deer over bait in their backyards.
I'm glad TN has a 2-buck limit, but I can see the case being made for a 1-buck limit if killing deer over bait were legalized in TN.
But I'm thinking we're as likely to see KY (and many other states) to go back to making it illegal to kill deer over bait, simply because of various issues regarding disease, ethics, and the fact wildlife is owned by the public, not by the property owner.
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Another point from my personal experience hunting around several landowners...
The deepest pockets draw the largest herds/flocks!!!
Simple math. If the pockets are deep, the expensive feeders, LITERAL TONS of corn, protein, minerals, food plots, and well manipulated areas for cover and water, will draw AND HOLD, Animals from afar.
I have seen this first hand. Neoghbors of large tracts competing for wildlife. Populations explode, nobody wants to kill the young bucks or does, and each year more does drop more fawns and thus the next year the owner needs MORE FEED!
I've seen populations literally EXPLODE until disease steps in to bring it all back in line.
Help Nature out a little sure...but do it with natural habitat manipulation.
The herd will be much healthier.
The deepest pockets draw the largest herds/flocks!!!
Simple math. If the pockets are deep, the expensive feeders, LITERAL TONS of corn, protein, minerals, food plots, and well manipulated areas for cover and water, will draw AND HOLD, Animals from afar.
I have seen this first hand. Neoghbors of large tracts competing for wildlife. Populations explode, nobody wants to kill the young bucks or does, and each year more does drop more fawns and thus the next year the owner needs MORE FEED!
I've seen populations literally EXPLODE until disease steps in to bring it all back in line.
Help Nature out a little sure...but do it with natural habitat manipulation.
The herd will be much healthier.
Snake
Well-Known Member
I think that's an 8 point you posted or my eyes played tricks on me ...humm you must thought he was a 12 point eh .
I know one thing the group of legislators we have in office are the biggest group of idiots we've ever had. They have passed the most idiotic laws I've seen presented. It wouldn't matter if the top biologist in the world came in and told them this law could wipe out the deer herd these idiots will still pass it. They listen to NO experts on ANY subject; vote and present laws based on "belief" and not known facts. Give them term limits and get rid of them.
Falcon
Member
Falcon
Member
I thought someone would state that, that is my neighbor that killed the Buck before I purchased the tract of land.
Falcon
Member
The troll police has arrived!
Snake
Well-Known Member
Alrighty then be looking forward to your future bucks.
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Corn may be hard to sell this fall. These are falling by the hundreds already on my suburban house hardwood lot and hunting property.
As I've said before, I'm fortunate to have a few close by small properties to hunt and sometimes hunt Catoosa when I can, and find it much more interesting to hunt terrain and natural food sources than to think about buying and lugging a bunch of corn to somewhere. And then sitting around looking at a corn pile. Sounds boring to me. Personally I only kill a buck every 2-3 years now because I only kill very mature 8 pointers plus and does really teste better, especially if you go and kill some gnarly old buck late in the season that's run itself ragged chasing does. But, I remember well the thrill many many years ago of killing anything with antlers. But I ran out of wall space for hanging heads and antlers. I much prefer to let small/medium sized buck walk knowing I've left some antlers for a newbie to kill and have a thrill when he grabs the "horns." But if a deer hunter has had to spend too much time traveling/working and attending to family obligations during the early seasons and faces mid-late December with an empty freezer I could understand them wanting to throw out some corn on their own property to get SOMETHING. Perspectives can change over time as can the conditions we find ourselves facing. It would be a lot better if TWRA would explain using it's own research data why they take the stances they do when so many surrounding states make different decisions.
As I've said before, I'm fortunate to have a few close by small properties to hunt and sometimes hunt Catoosa when I can, and find it much more interesting to hunt terrain and natural food sources than to think about buying and lugging a bunch of corn to somewhere. And then sitting around looking at a corn pile. Sounds boring to me. Personally I only kill a buck every 2-3 years now because I only kill very mature 8 pointers plus and does really teste better, especially if you go and kill some gnarly old buck late in the season that's run itself ragged chasing does. But, I remember well the thrill many many years ago of killing anything with antlers. But I ran out of wall space for hanging heads and antlers. I much prefer to let small/medium sized buck walk knowing I've left some antlers for a newbie to kill and have a thrill when he grabs the "horns." But if a deer hunter has had to spend too much time traveling/working and attending to family obligations during the early seasons and faces mid-late December with an empty freezer I could understand them wanting to throw out some corn on their own property to get SOMETHING. Perspectives can change over time as can the conditions we find ourselves facing. It would be a lot better if TWRA would explain using it's own research data why they take the stances they do when so many surrounding states make different decisions.
Like I said, I'm here in Christian county Kentucky. I passed an outfitter on my way to town yesterday. He was towing a trailer with a side by side and no telling how many bags of whole corn. He had at least a ton looked like. Sure is a head scratcher. There's more crop fields than houses up here and they still need corn?
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Seeing so many tons of corn being sold right now as deer bait, another head scratcher is just how much less costly would a guided "hunt" be if they weren't spending so much money on expensive corn for bait?
Some have used the argument that bait is needed to get more people into killing deer (but is is really hunting?). How about the extra cost of bait being a deterrent to hunting because many people don't think they can compete with those rich enough to buy corn bait by the tons?
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
The reasons not to bait keep piling up.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I know people with expensive (by TN standards) deer leases in KY,
who actually spend more money annually on corn baiting than they spend on their hunting leases!
Go figure.
I just don't see any benefit to it when your surrounded by corn fields. I guess people pay to sit over baited stands and that's what they are getting. What hunters I've talked to here seem to think it's a sin not to hunt over bait. Real head scratcher all the way around. I see way more deer and turkeys up here than I do in middle Tn.
