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Chicken poop

TheLBLman said:
IMO, the most significant increase in turkey predation of the past decade has come from raptors.
I don't know of any legal way to eliminate or reduce their numbers.

Not only are the raptor numbers continuing to increase, but they seem to be evolving to more specifically hunt turkey, and get more efficient at doing it. The Cooper's hawk is particularly preying on young poults, the red-tails are getting the larger poults, the owls are getting all ages, and the bald eagle is more specifically targeting strutting Toms (or any turkeys caught out in a field).

I also think the turkey population declines may have some other yet over-looked or unrecognized factors, just like the now near extinct bobwhite quail. Whatever is going on, it's not just about habitat, nesting success, and predation. I've seen too many very large acreage areas (many square miles) develop improved habitat for both quail and turkeys, yet their populations fail to thrive.

I also don't think the declines I've seen in Stewart Co have anything to do with chicken houses or chicken litter. Maybe in some areas, more chickens equates to more robust raptor populations?
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When we started trapping hard for
Coyotes on our farms in middle Tennessee, the turkey population exploded. We've trapped/over 20 this winter on one farm. 12 were females.
Creek bottoms said:
Sounds like I touched a nerve. Not jealous, I have a number of custom guns.

It's apparent how you make a living and you're biased. I don't blame you. It doesn't mean you're right regarding wild turkeys.
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The litter I sell when I clean out my houses is less than a 1/12th of my income a year. Hardly a game changer. I could get much more for it if I wanted to handle it and spread it myself.
I also spread some on my farm/field. I'm infested with turkey. Anyone who thinks it has something in it that kills turkeys is just regurgitating 🐮💩.
 
Creek bottoms said:
Sounds like I touched a nerve. Not jealous, I have a number of custom guns.

It's apparent how you make a living and you're biased. I don't blame you. It doesn't mean you're right regarding wild turkeys.
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My wildlife biology background and the fact I'm directly in contact with our state vet and with the people who've researched and debunked the "chicken litter kills turkeys" rumor mill is all I need to know. I knew there was nothing to the old wives tale long before I started making a little money from selling 🐥💩
 
Creek bottoms said:
Sounds like I touched a nerve. Not jealous, I have a number of custom guns.

It's apparent how you make a living and you're biased. I don't blame you. It doesn't mean you're right regarding wild turkeys.
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The only nerve touched was the one connected to my low tolerance for people who spew ignorance about something they know nothing about. The fact you had to bring up a rifle I bought and make it personal shows you're the one who had a nerve struck. Sometimes it's just better to admit you're wrong about something…. But you chose to make it personal. I'll forgive , but won't forget.
 
GreeneGriz said:
When we started trapping hard for
Coyotes on our farms in middle Tennessee, the turkey population exploded. We've trapped/over 20 this winter on one farm. 12 were females.

The litter I sell when I clean out my houses is less than a 1/12th of my income a year. Hardly a game changer. I could get much more for it if I wanted to handle it and spread it myself.
I also spread some on my farm/field. I'm infested with turkey. Anyone who thinks it has something in it that kills turkeys is just regurgitating 🐮💩.
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I think you're lying about being infested with turkeys and the only way I'll believe you is if you have me come to your farm and kill one of them myself
 
GreeneGriz said:
My wildlife biology background and the fact I'm directly in contact with our state vet and with the people who've researched and debunked the "chicken litter kills turkeys" rumor mill is all I need to know. I knew there was nothing to the old wives tale long before I started making a little money from selling 🐥💩
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Please provide the research that debunked the chicken litter kills turkeys
 
Rockhound said:
Please provide the research that debunked the chicken litter kills turkeys
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Please provide verified scientific data that says it does. Why are counties that have zero chicken farming or litter being spread seeing the same decline? Why are entire states that don't have chicken farming seeing the decline? Why are areas that use litter, and have for decades seeing the same swings in population… but have turkeys thick as flies??
It seems the burden of proof is on those like you who regurgitate the same old wives tales over and over, yet have zero firsthand knowledge or experience to back up your asinine claims. To save you a lot of time and embarrassment. There is NO proof. None. Nada. Zilch. Zero. The University of Georgia says there is zero proof chicken litter has had anything to do with the population "decline".
 

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GreeneGriz said:
Please provide verified scientific data that says it does. Why are counties that have zero chicken farming or litter being spread seeing the same decline? Why are entire states that don't have chicken farming seeing the decline? Why are areas that use litter, and have for decades seeing the same swings in population… but have turkeys thick as flies??
It seems the burden of proof is on those like you who regurgitate the same old wives tales over and over, yet have zero firsthand knowledge or experience to back up your asinine claims. To save you a lot of time and embarrassment. There is NO proof. None. Nada. Zilch. Zero. The University of Georgia says there is zero proof chicken litter has had anything to do with the population "decline".
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Exactly. You have just as much proof that it doesn't as anyone has that it does. That article. If you had read it, says they dont have evidence but its possible, nice try though. The university of Tennessee tried it on poults with chicken litter, and without chicken litter, guess which one developed disease? Ill let you read it. So the "burden of proof" can come from either side, and what few studies have been done dont fare well for the litter. It stands to reason that there is enough money in the chicken industry that the general public will never know whether it is or it ain't, and thats for you as well, just because you own a few barns isnt gonna make you the wiser, you just afraid its gonna get in that pocket book, my brother owns some to and i know for a fact that 4 years ago they started regulating the manure, it can't go straight from the barn to the field anymore, at least not here. for me, my county went from 500+ kills to <210 in just a few years. There's only 1 factor that changed and I'll let you guess what it was... 👀👀👀. It's no coincidence that we have had stellar hatches and poult recruitment the last 3 springs. But believe what you want...
 
Rockhound said:
Exactly. You have just as much proof that it doesn't as anyone has that it does. That article. If you had read it, says they dont have evidence but its possible, nice try though. The university of Tennessee tried it on poults with chicken litter, and without chicken litter, guess which one developed disease? Ill let you read it. So the "burden of proof" can come from either side, and what few studies have been done dont fare well for the litter. It stands to reason that there is enough money in the chicken industry that the general public will never know whether it is or it ain't, and thats for you as well, just because you own a few barns isnt gonna make you the wiser, you just afraid its gonna get in that pocket book, my brother owns some to and i know for a fact that 4 years ago they started regulating the manure, it can't go straight from the barn to the field anymore, at least not here. for me, my county went from 500+ kills to <210 in just a few years. There's only 1 factor that changed and I'll let you guess what it was... 👀👀👀. It's no coincidence that we have had stellar hatches and poult recruitment the last 3 springs. But believe what you want...
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It said it's possible…but there is zero evidence it ever has. Lol. Maybe should have read it closer. 😂
 
Rockhound said:
Exactly. You have just as much proof that it doesn't as anyone has that it does. That article. If you had read it, says they dont have evidence but it's possible, nice try though. The university of Tennessee tried it on poults with chicken litter, and without chicken litter, guess which one developed disease? I'll let you read it. So the "burden of proof" can come from either side, and what few studies have been done dont fare well for the litter. It stands to reason that there is enough money in the chicken industry that the general public will never know whether it is or it ain't, and thats for you as well, just because you own a few barns isnt gonna make you the wiser, you just afraid its gonna get in that pocket book, my brother owns some to and i know for a fact that 4 years ago they started regulating the manure, it can't go straight from the barn to the field anymore, at least not here. for me, my county went from 500+ kills to <210 in just a few years. There's only 1 factor that changed and I'll let you guess what it was... 👀👀👀. It's no coincidence that we have had stellar hatches and poult recruitment the last 3 springs. But believe what you want...
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You stated "it can't go straight from the barn to the field anymore".
Sorry… but that's just not true. And the fact is…there is zero difference if it does or not. Litter goes thru a heat in a matter of hours. When litter hits 130-140 degrees it kills all pathogens or anything that might be living in it. When litter is left in a house it reaches that temperature in its own. Also…
Growers now "windrow" their litter between flocks to purposely make it reach those temps multiple times to kill any pathogens, but larvae, etc. it goes thru multiple purification aka "pasteurization"heats before being applied to fields.
Again, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You're just making a fool of yourself and don't even realize it.
 
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It ain't the chicken litter. The entire southeast has chicken houses. Counties in South Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi has had more chicken houses built in a year than Lawrence county Tennessee has total.

I've explained on here before over the years on the reasons why it ain't chicken litter, but people blame it all the time anyways. I'm not going to go into writing essays wasting my time on it here any more.


Now, I will be the first to admit that I'm wrong, if concrete scientific evidence comes out and says it. Until then I'm using the knowledge I have.
 
40% of every chicken in the world originates in Cumberland county Tennessee. Every ounce of litter from that huge operation that is scattered all over Cumberland county is spread on fields.
Explain why the turkey harvest numbers in that county has increased yearly since at least 2017. Lol. You folks need to actually research what you're regurgitating.
 
If people would sit down and look at the data and use a little common sense, they would realize how foolish and uneducated they are when they blame it on chicken litter being used as fertilizer. I can't help but laugh.
woodsman04 said:
It ain't the chicken litter. The entire southeast has chicken houses. Counties in South Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi has had more chicken houses built in a year than Lawrence county Tennessee has total.

I've explained on here before over the years on the reasons why it ain't chicken litter, but people blame it all the time anyways. I'm not going to go into writing essays wasting my time on it here any more.


Now, I will be the first to admit that I'm wrong, if concrete scientific evidence comes out and says it. Until then I'm using the knowledge I have.
Click to expand...
 
GreeneGriz said:
Why are counties that have zero chicken farming or litter being spread seeing the same decline? Why are entire states that don't have chicken farming seeing the decline? Why are areas that use litter, and have for decades seeing the same swings in population… but have turkeys thick as flies??
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This is a very valid "point" or observation that hits hard for me.

In my County of Stewart, at least the main county between the Tennessee River & the Cumberland River, there is essentially no agriculture, no chicken manure being spread, and no chicken houses. In fact, a big part of this land mass is the LBL National Recreation Area.

Turkey populations in most of Stewart Co. have been on a steady decline the past many years, despite many areas experiencing improving nesting habitat. Same has happened with bobwhite quail, which have now become almost totally extinct, yet I could find huntable quail populations only a decade ago.

At the same time, I see some areas in West TN where chicken manure is replacing other fertilizers, where commercial chicken houses dot the landscape, yet turkeys are expanding.

I truly believe whatever we're missing, some missing factor(s) greatly contributing to quail's failure to thrive (despite improving known factors to benefit them), will turn out to be the same factor(s) greatly contributing to the turkeys' failure to thrive.

I don't profess to know what these factors are, but do believe perhaps the most under-studied, and seemingly unrealized factor is increased predation by a steadily increasing raptor population that has been evolving to focus hunting more on wild turkeys.

Unlike many, I do not believe coyotes are much of a factor (at least not in most of Stewart Co.) because we had similar to higher coyote populations over 20 years ago as now, and in many these areas we have fewer coyotes than when turkeys were thriving. Coyotes are a factor, but imo an over-stated one, not a primary factor in the decline.

Chicken houses & chicken litter could be a factor is some areas, but there is no proof that they are.
There is proof in many areas that chicken houses & chicken litter is NOT a factor.
One very specific very large isolated land mass is LBL.
 
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Rockhound said:
It's impossible to have evidence if you never test it....
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The University of Ga. and Univ of Auburn are the foremost commercial poultry authorities. They work with all states and private poultry companies very closely. Again, if you had even the slightest knowledge of the poultry industry, you would know this. UT and TTU and even MTSU are now offering poultry science degrees and even have their own test farms they use to analyze every facet of commercial poultry. From genetics to spreading 🐥💩. They know what's happening and if it was causing any wildlife issues, it would be front page news
 

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