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Chicken poop

Popcorn said:
I agree 100% with everything @GreeneGriz has stated above. Over 10 years in western Ky spreading thousands of tons af litter per year on farms where the turkey populations have gotten better every year and stand at phenomenal this season. The only answer is habit and predator control. These farms are not in a flyway.
Move south into Tennessee and see a more clear picture. Farms on the highlands with commercial fertilizer if any at all and good habitat = great turkey numbers with virtually no predator controls but also no flyways. Move to the river bottom's where habitat abounds, commercial fertilizer is everywhere, also virtually no predator control but constant contact with waterfowl. There you will find turkey barely exist on the farms I oversee in spite of my efforts to the contrary.
As far as the dollar goes Turkey hunting will never come close economically to duck hunting.
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Any hunter that doesn't spend a weekend or two at least trying to take out a few coyotes or raccoons isn't much of a hunter. When we started waylaying the yotes and coons, our turkey skyrocketed almost immediately.
 
We've repeated that scene over and over the last few winters and have killed everyone we can when given a chance and we've seen the turkeys thrive where they were once few and far between for several
years.
If you're seeing coyotes while
Hunting you have too many.
TheLBLman said:
This is a very valid "point" or observation that hits hard for me.

In my County of Stewart, at least the main county between the Tennessee River & the Cumberland River, there is essentially no agriculture, no chicken manure being spread, and no chicken houses. In fact, a big part of this land mass is the LBL National Recreation Area.

Turkey populations in most of Stewart Co. have been on a steady decline the past many years, despite many areas experiencing improving nesting habitat. Same has happened with bobwhite quail, which have now become almost totally extinct, yet I could find huntable quail populations only a decade ago.

At the same time, I see some areas in West TN where chicken manure is replacing other fertilizers, where commercial chicken houses dot the landscape, yet turkeys are expanding.

I truly believe whatever we're missing, some missing factor(s) greatly contributing to quail's failure to thrive (despite improving known factors to benefit them), will turn out to be the same factor(s) greatly contributing to the turkeys' failure to thrive.

I don't profess to know what these factors are, but do believe perhaps the most under-studied, and seemingly unrealized factor is increased predation by a steadily increasing raptor population that has been evolving to focus hunting more on wild turkeys.

Unlike many, I do not believe coyotes are much of a factor (at least not in most of Stewart Co.) because we had similar to higher coyote populations over 20 years ago as now, and in many these areas we have fewer coyotes than when turkeys were thriving. Coyotes are a factor, but imo an over-stated one, not a primary factor in the decline.

Chicken houses & chicken litter could be a factor is some areas, but there is no proof that they are.
There is proof in many areas that chicken houses & chicken litter is NOT a factor.
One very specific very large isolated land mass is LBL.
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TITANSFAN2104 said:
Yep most dont know it has to be composted for a pretty good while before they do anything with it and all the dead ones are supposed to be buried if any large number. My Brother in law had 16 barns up in burkesville KY from 1998 up until he recently sold them in the last 5 years or so. He used to spread it on all our places and i kill the heck out of turkeys and have for years!!
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I was born and raised in Cumberland County. Went to school in Burkesville.
 
TheLBLman said:
IMO, the most significant increase in turkey predation of the past decade has come from raptors.
I don't know of any legal way to eliminate or reduce their numbers.

Not only are the raptor numbers continuing to increase, but they seem to be evolving to more specifically hunt turkey, and get more efficient at doing it. The Cooper's hawk is particularly preying on young poults, the red-tails are getting the larger poults, the owls are getting all ages, and the bald eagle is more specifically targeting strutting Toms (or any turkeys caught out in a field).

I also think the turkey population declines may have some other yet over-looked or unrecognized factors, just like the now near extinct bobwhite quail. Whatever is going on, it's not just about habitat, nesting success, and predation. I've seen too many very large acreage areas (many square miles) develop improved habitat for both quail and turkeys, yet their populations fail to thrive.

I also don't think the declines I've seen in Stewart Co have anything to do with chicken houses or chicken litter. Maybe in some areas, more chickens equates to more robust raptor populations?
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I'm better at yelping up hawks, black headed buzzards and coyotes than I am gobblers!
 
AlabamaSwamper said:
Nowhere I hunt in both states are near any waterfowl.

But within 5 years of chicken litter being spread from all the new chicken houses in pastures the population was almost gone.

We had just as many predators when we had lots of turkeys. Better find someone else to preach that one to. Actually probably had more predators 20 years ago.

But the state is handcuffed in saying anything. I get it. Politics as usual.
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careful alabamaswamper. trust me. you can get banned for speaking out about chicken litter!!!
 
Correct me if wrong but the TN study did find some evidence of blackhead from chicken litter or other sources but not enough to be conclusive correct?

I think disease has to be a factor.. There is no explaining the drastic decline in southern middle TN. They have the same predators, bad weather as the rest of the state.
 
Bgoodman30 said:
Correct me if wrong but the TN study did find some evidence of blackhead from chicken litter or other sources but not enough to be conclusive correct?

I think disease has to be a factor.. There is no explaining the drastic decline in southern middle TN. They have the same predators, bad weather as the rest of the state.
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They did
 
Bgoodman30 said:
Correct me if wrong but the TN study did find some evidence of blackhead from chicken litter or other sources but not enough to be conclusive correct?

I think disease has to be a factor.. There is no explaining the drastic decline in southern middle TN. They have the same predators, bad weather as the rest of the state.
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Bgoodman30 said:
Correct me if wrong but the TN study did find some evidence of blackhead from chicken litter or other sources but not enough to be conclusive correct?

I think disease has to be a factor.. There is no explaining the drastic decline in southern middle TN. They have the same predators, bad weather as the rest of the state.
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Blackhead disease comes from a Protozoa found in roundworms and a very common disease in wild birds and affects ALLgame birds and is found in all game birds naturally. Blackhead disease and round worms and parasites in general, have been virtually non existent in commercial poultry (chicken)for 30+ years because the birds aren't exposed to roundworm and what carries them. (wild
birds)

If you looked act the CAFO data showing where chicken litter has been spread and used across Tennessee, everyone promoting the "chicken litter kills turkeys" wives tale would realize how foolish they look. Lol. BTW…. The most common roundworm that turkeys are most found to have is Raccoon Roundworm (Baylisascaris) . Which goes directly back to the proven fact that the explosion in nest raising predators are directly related to the claimed decline in turkey numbers.
 
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What about Histoplasmosis issue increases in regards to more chicken houses and chickenshit being spread? Is that a concern, or just something a few groups are using as an argument? I'm off topic for sure as I'm more concerned with human impact 1st, vs wildlife impact. I don't know the science at all on any of this, which is why I'm asking. Many "groups" seem to offer data tied to chickencrap spread..and increased health issues. Of course many groups had myself and other believing we'd all die of COVID (don't get me wrong as I lost friends to COVID) yet it didn't impact most of us as we were led to believe.
 
GreeneGriz said:
Blackhead disease comes from a Protozoa found in roundworms and a very common disease in wild birds and affects ALLgame birds and is found in all game birds naturally. Blackhead disease and round worms and parasites in general, have been virtually non existent in commercial poultry (chicken)for 30+ years because the birds aren't exposed to roundworm and what carries them. (wild
birds)

If you looked act the CAFO data showing where chicken litter has been spread and used across Tennessee, everyone promoting the "chicken litter kills turkeys" wives tale would realize how foolish they look. Lol. BTW…. The most common roundworm that turkeys are most found to have is Raccoon Roundworm (Baylisascaris) . Which goes directly back to the proven fact that the explosion in nest raising predators are directly related to the claimed decline in turkey numbers.
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Post it
 
I don't doubt that a couple of bad batches of litter could've hurt things in Southern Middle TN, but to think litter is the cause of the decline everywhere is laughable. So many farms used it and never saw a decline, the one I hunt included. The longer all these studies go on and turn up nothing significant the more I tend to believe the biggest cause of the decline is poor weather leading to consecutive (2+) years of awful hatches piled on top of soaring predator numbers combined with continued habitat loss. Then you start adding in reaping, TSS, decoys, YouTube, etc causing an untold number of turkeys to be killed that wouldn't have been killed in the "good ol days" and its no wonder so many places are seeing a decline. If we are fortunate enough to have 2 more great hatches these next two years I imagine this conversation will look much different in the spring of 2025.
 
GreeneGriz said:
Blackhead disease comes from a Protozoa found in roundworms and a very common disease in wild birds and affects ALLgame birds and is found in all game birds naturally. Blackhead disease and round worms and parasites in general, have been virtually non existent in commercial poultry (chicken)for 30+ years because the birds aren't exposed to roundworm and what carries them. (wild
birds)

If you looked act the CAFO data showing where chicken litter has been spread and used across Tennessee, everyone promoting the "chicken litter kills turkeys" wives tale would realize how foolish they look. Lol. BTW…. The most common roundworm that turkeys are most found to have is Raccoon Roundworm (Baylisascaris) . Which goes directly back to the proven fact that the explosion in nest raising predators are directly related to the claimed decline in turkey numbers.
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I was referring to the findings in TN study that is still going? I will look for it if I have ever have free time again.. I have personally seen a pen raised turkey infected with blackhead that was in the same pen with ducks, chickens etc.
 
bowhunterfanatic said:
I don't doubt that a couple of bad batches of litter could've hurt things in Southern Middle TN, but to think litter is the cause of the decline everywhere is laughable. So many farms used it and never saw a decline, the one I hunt included. The longer all these studies go on and turn up nothing significant the more I tend to believe the biggest cause of the decline is poor weather leading to consecutive (2+) years of awful hatches piled on top of soaring predator numbers combined with continued habitat loss. Then you start adding in reaping, TSS, decoys, YouTube, etc causing an untold number of turkeys to be killed that wouldn't have been killed in the "good ol days" and its no wonder so many places are seeing a decline. If we are fortunate enough to have 2 more great hatches these next two years I imagine this conversation will look much different in the spring of 2025.
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I dont for a minute think that it's a problem everywhere. But no hatch to speak of here from 2006-2020 is no coincidence. What most people don't realize about the most affected area of this whole thing is, we had flocks of turkeys numbering in the high high thousands, simply dissappear in a matter of 2 years. It doesn't cause concern to anyone who didnt experience it, but the ones who have lived through it are past the point of given up. I know I have.
 
Rockhound said:
I dont for a minute think that it's a problem everywhere. But no hatch to speak of here from 2006-2020 is no coincidence. What most people don't realize about the most affected area of this whole thing is, we had flocks of turkeys numbering in the high high thousands, simply dissappear in a matter of 2 years. It doesn't cause concern to anyone who didnt experience it, but the ones who have lived through it are past the point of given up. I know I have.
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I'm not denying that at all, and clearly it was some sort of disease most likely, but it would be incredibly unlikely that the disease stemmed from chicken litter used all across the southeast but only affected the birds in a few TN counties.
 

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