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Interesting article on lead vs TSS

Iglow said:
Deerfever, I guess you're right.,I don't know. I just don't see the point of spending money on a new gun and $12.00 a pop shells to do the same job of a gun you most likely have now and with shells that are $9.00 for ten. If a man is so frail that the difference in weight from a 12 to a 410 is the determining factor as to going hunting or not should he be getting out to start with? I guess it gets back to me being cheap by nature. Also to the bored thing I mentioned, if that's what a man wants to do, what do I care, but it seem connected with being bored and looking for something to do to me.
If someone from these 2 viewpoints each wrote a story about a hunt where a turkey was called up and killed and had it published, in fifty years which story would most likely be remembered or reread? The one about a thrilling hunt were it was maybe/maybe not till the bird got inside 30 yards or the one about a guy cutting on a box call to a bird that just flew off the roost, popped his head up at 75 yds away to look towards the cutting and got shot then made the rounds on facebook and instagram?
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Why do you think everyone that uses TSS shoots at 75 yards? Who have you been around that does that? They are the bad guy not the 12, 410 or 20 gauge. I try not to worry about how much people spend on hunting equipment as long as they do not make me buy it for them. Again my point is if I shoot a 410 or 20 gauge and shoot the same distance you do what's the problem? I have been fortunate to kill a lot of birds over 41 years with lead , HVW and TSS. Heck I still have lead shells that I shoot out of my 20 sometimes. If a man is willing to pay for TSS and I don't have to buy it for them then it's none of my business. I am in total agreement on shot distance but what people shoot with 12 , 20 or 410 , Makes no difference to me as long as I don't have to buy the gun for them . I agree with the unethical shots but again that's a personal choice that some guys need to correct.
 
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Iglow said:
I just don't see the point of spending money on a new gun and $12.00 a pop shells to do the same job of a gun you most likely have now and with shells that are $9.00 for ten.
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And that's the great thing about it. You don't have to. You can hunt your way with your equipment and the new gun/TSS guys can do it their way. I think what gets lost in these discussions is that everyone has a different set of circumstances. Hunter A might be retired, able to hunt everyday, and have prime places to hunt with a turkey behind every tree. Hunter B might work 5 or 6 days a week, and get 6 or 8 days a year to hunt, on land with very few turkeys. Hunter A can limit his shots to 30 yards and still limit out in the first week. Hunter B is lucky to get on a few birds a year so if he calls one to 45 he better kill it. I hope if I ever become Hunter A, I will count my blessings instead of criticizing Hunter B for not doing it my way. Trust me, Hunter B wishes he had prime ground, lots of turkeys, and every day to hunt. In that position he would probably limit his shots to 30 yards too.
 
Spurhunter said:
And that's the great thing about it. You don't have to. You can hunt your way with your equipment and the new gun/TSS guys can do it their way. I think what gets lost in these discussions is that everyone has a different set of circumstances. Hunter A might be retired, able to hunt everyday, and have prime places to hunt with a turkey behind every tree. Hunter B might work 5 or 6 days a week, and get 6 or 8 days a year to hunt, on land with very few turkeys. Hunter A can limit his shots to 30 yards and still limit out in the first week. Hunter B is lucky to get on a few birds a year so if he calls one to 45 he better kill it. I hope if I ever become Hunter A, I will count my blessings instead of criticizing Hunter B for not doing it my way. Trust me, Hunter B wishes he had prime ground, lots of turkeys, and every day to hunt. In that position he would probably limit his shots to 30 yards too.
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This horseshit excuse right here takes the cake🤣
 
Ok…I gotta fess up, I did the 410 thing back in the hay days when turkeys were everywhere. I shot a Mossberg pump with a fixed full and Winchester 11/16 oz 7.5 backed up by Remington 4's if things went bad. I was squirrel dogging a lot then and we killed squirrels dead in tall trees with the 410 so I thought squirrels are one tough dude for their size and if we can knock them down a turkeys head/neck can't be much tougher. I was hunting where I knew the places they wondered thru a lot and I shot 1 jake then a 2 yo then a big one all at the farthest was 18 steps over a 3 season time. I always had a nagging fear that if he don't drop on the spot follow up shots aren't gonna fix things. The last time I used the 410 was right after TSS 410 came out a few years ago. I never killed one with TSS but came close a few times but looking down that skinny barrel at those big birds I felt like I was pointing a pencil at them and sending a child to do a mans job. Then and there I thought " this isn't hunting , it's pulling a stunt just to see if it can be done" and that's not fair to a bird as valuable as a big gobbler, he deserves better. I never took the 410 again. Thing is with the 410, you're walking a fine line wayyy out on the edge, if it don't go perfect with the first shot there is no margin of error,no second shot is gonna put a wounded bird down. He's gone and you have one less gobbler to hunt and nothing to show for it but the regret of wounding and loosing a bird for the sake of a stunt. Y'all might get pissed about that but that's the truth. Can it be done?Sure. Should it be done? No,I don't think so.
 
Iglow said:
Ok…I gotta fess up, I did the 410 thing back in the hay days when turkeys were everywhere. I shot a Mossberg pump with a fixed full and Winchester 11/16 oz 7.5 backed up by Remington 4's if things went bad. I was squirrel dogging a lot then and we killed squirrels dead in tall trees with the 410 so I thought squirrels are one tough dude for their size and if we can knock them down a turkeys head/neck can't be much tougher. I was hunting where I knew the places they wondered thru a lot and I shot 1 jake then a 2 yo then a big one all at the farthest was 18 steps over a 3 season time. I always had a nagging fear that if he don't drop on the spot follow up shots aren't gonna fix things. The last time I used the 410 was right after TSS 410 came out a few years ago. I never killed one with TSS but came close a few times but looking down that skinny barrel at those big birds I felt like I was pointing a pencil at them and sending a child to do a mans job. Then and there I thought " this isn't hunting , it's pulling a stunt just to see if it can be done" and that's not fair to a bird as valuable as a big gobbler, he deserves better. I never took the 410 again. Thing is with the 410, you're walking a fine line wayyy out on the edge, if it don't go perfect with the first shot there is no margin of error,no second shot is gonna put a wounded bird down. He's gone and you have one less gobbler to hunt and nothing to show for it but the regret of wounding and loosing a bird for the sake of a stunt. Y'all might get pissed about that but that's the truth. Can it be done?Sure. Should it be done? No,I don't think so.
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I just don't understand what your getting at ? It's not ok for a man to hunt turkeys with a 410 with TSS but it is ok that you did it with lead and killed 3 with one of those being a Jake? So it's a stunt to hunt them with TSS but not for you with lead or a 12 gauge with a target load? Go to the pattern page and look at my pattern picture of the Savage 301 T 410 with TSS #9 at 35 yards. That's not a stunt but a dead Turkey all day long and probably a better pattern than you can get out of your 12 gauge target load. I hunt most of the time with a 20 gauge ( that I know will out pattern your 12 set up) but after patterning the 410 , I will not even hesitate to carry it at all. I keep all my shots within 30/35 yards but if I misjudge with TSS and he is 40 .I guarantee he is dead. What if you misjudge with that target load your shooting could you say the same? Don't the Gobbler deserve better? Why not use a better quality lead shell ? You see some may question that decision. That first shot of 410 # 9 TSS has 294 pellets coming at 1,100 fps. Wonder how many your target load has? I am not arguing with you at all but trying to make a point the 410 TSS shell that guys are using out of turkey choke tubes will more than likely pattern way better than the target load you choose to hunt turkeys with out of a 12 gauge. I have no problem with it as obviously you let them get close and kill Turkeys but I would not be so quick to judge guys that choose to use a sub gauge gun with better ammo than you are using. Perfectly ethical kills all day long!
 
I guess the point is where does it stop? If ever? Are we gonna throw every possible technological advancement at these birds as fast as it can be produced and brought to market ? I mean step back and look at this, red dots scopes! on a shotgun! Really? Battery powered motion decoys! Pop up blinds? Where does all this lead? Shot with a very high specific gravity? Do you want Einstein there beside you advising you on pellet drop trajectories at numbered distances? It really get laughable right before it gets ridiculous. Are we so incompetent as to need all this crap? Like you say if that's what somebody wants to do,whatever , but it just looks bad to me.
 
Iglow said:
I guess the point is where does it stop? If ever? Are we gonna throw every possible technological advancement at these birds as fast as it can be produced and brought to market ? I mean step back and look at this, red dots scopes! on a shotgun! Really? Battery powered motion decoys! Pop up blinds? Where does all this lead? Shot with a very high specific gravity? Do you want Einstein there beside you advising you on pellet drop trajectories at numbered distances? It really get laughable right before it gets ridiculous. Are we so incompetent as to need all this crap? Like you say if that's what somebody wants to do,whatever , but it just looks bad to me.
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It stops when the bird dies cleanly.

What is your personal cut off distance where you've called a bird into to feel like you beat him fair and square? For you it's 30y. A 12g lead #7.5 2 3/4 at 1250fps should do that. No 5s... maybe, maybe not depending on the pattern your particular gun/ choke throws. I've crippled lost 4 or 5 birds at 30y with 12g 3in lead 5s back in the day (my fault, didn't pattern my gun, and pattern was horrible). But if you have done your due diligence (patterned gun at max range and you are getting 70 to 100 pellets in a 10in circle), there is no reason to spend $10 per shell for TSS.

For me personally, I'm perfectly fine with feeling like I've won the game if he comes to 40y in open country, and have no reservations about killing him at 40 if he hangs up. Most of my hunting is in the thick piney woods and swamps down here though, and that by nature leads to 15 to 25yd shots. I hung up my 10g (high 90s% kill rate) for a 20g. Sure that 20g will kill them every time at 20y with dove loads (my son accidentally did that last year... killed one at 16y with #8 lead from a sighting session that got mixed in with the TSS), yet I don't feel I've compromised my killing power one bit using TSS when going from my 10g down to the 20. 40 and in, the bird is going to flop.
 
Iglow said:
I guess the point is where does it stop? If ever? Are we gonna throw every possible technological advancement at these birds as fast as it can be produced and brought to market ? I mean step back and look at this, red dots scopes! on a shotgun! Really? Battery powered motion decoys! Pop up blinds? Where does all this lead? Shot with a very high specific gravity? Do you want Einstein there beside you advising you on pellet drop trajectories at numbered distances? It really get laughable right before it gets ridiculous. Are we so incompetent as to need all this crap? Like you say if that's what somebody wants to do,whatever , but it just looks bad to me.
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But it's okay for you to do it? Did you not just say you killed 3 with lead 410 and used TSS? Then question a man using TSS In a 410 as a stunt? I just don't understand that . No one said anything about decoys or motion decoys, blinds or any other deal. I use none of those. You made it out like anyone who hunts with TSS shoots turkey at 75 yards and if they hunt with a sub gauge it's all a stunt. However those guns will pattern better than your 12 gauge with target loads all day long? Just continue to use your 12 with target loads, no problem at all . My point is don't judge others who are shooting superior ammo out of a 410 or 20 gauge than you are out of your 12 gauge. Now you want to talk decoys and all the other stuff that has nothing to do with this discussion, just hang around that one gets going every year! Lol . There are some great lead shells longbeards , Federal Grand slam just to name a couple. No issues at all with either with TSS or lead . It all comes down to patterning your gun and keeping your shot distance in check. Not all TSS guys are shooting 75 yards but like the pattern density and performance of the shells better than lead and especially out of 20 gauge or 410. Yes I could still be shooting my 835 with a 3.5 inch shell but no thanks! I don't even have that gun anymore. I guess I am fragile as I enjoy the 5 pound gun in the turkey woods! Oh and I use a green circle dot not a red dot ! I Also use straight bead!
 
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Well , this has run off the rails. I guess its a line everybody has to draw for themselves. For me the stench of technology has gotten to be too much, I'm so sick of it. I guess as I've gotten older,with every new advance I just want to run in the opposite direction. It seems the simpler , less commercial, less latest camo/gadget I can make my hunting the better I like it. It wasn't my intention to start a bunch of crap or pass judgement etc. probably have, but didn't set out to.
 
Exactly. Hunting them the old school way, a dove load will kill him. The sport is for the most part long gone, nows its all about killing, not so much working the bird. And believe me, Ive killed one or two in my day. Tickweed, this is right on the head, the sport is gone and it's the killing that matters…..and don't forget to post pics!!!
 
Haha geez no idea what the heck is going on in this thread.

I went to TSS cause there wasn't better options for an ethical clean kill in a 20 gauge at the time. I wanted to stop carrying a 12 all the time and again at the time it was the best option. See no need to ever run it for a 12 gauge but that's just me, but if someone wants to pay for it then by all means go for it.
 
My take on TSS is that it just gives me better patterns up close and at 40 yards. Honestly the furthest I ever patterned was 42 yards because that's has far has my buddies property line goes where I shot last year. Last year was my.first year using it. It is more open for me at 15 yards then Longbeard XR and has a great pattern out to 40 yards. I am pretty good at judging distance using the football field method but in the heat of the moment if I think a bird is at 35 and it's actually 45 I am not has worried about crippling them. And people can say what they want to but we all will misjudge distance. Now maybe those of you hunting the same piece of private land may know exactly the distance to every tree on all 100 acres and that's great. But when you are chasing birds on 1000's of acres of public it is different. And by no means am I knocking lead. I would have no issues going back to Longbeard XR if they got rid of TSS. But if there is a better option and in my budget why not use it. After this year I may drop to a 20 gauge also which TSS will be great for. I have my eye on 2 specific guns but waiting for them to come in stock here somewhere in Clarksville or nearby so I can handle both before purchasing.
 
The problem with this thread is that guys who have limited experience with TSS think they are experts on the matter.. punching holes in paper and real time hunting situations are not the same. Furthermore if you have only been turkey hunting for a year or two, threads like these are good ones to read, learn, and be quiet.
 
You know , when your wrong your wrong and should admit it and I was wrong about this TSS thing. Technology is coming and denying it doesn't make it go away. Where somebody shoots turkeys at 75 yards with it is irrelevant, the same types would shoot 65 with a 3.5 lead. Character of hunters in general is a product of the society they come from, what kind of shot they use is irrelevant. On second thought after sleeping on it and talking with a buddy that's bit with the 410 bug, actually a 410 with TSS can be more sporting and a surer killer in the right hands than a full lead load in the wrong hands. So, I stand corrected, the points y'all made in favor of TSS were right and me knocking it was wrong. Besides that what somebody else does is none of my business and I couldn't do anything about it even if it was.
 
My goal even with TSS is to still get them to within 40 yards or less. Even with TSS I don't think I could bring myself to take a 60 yard shot, it still seems wrong to me. And no matter how excited I got I don't think I could misjudge 20 yards thinking 60 was 40.
 

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