• Help Support TNDeer:

It's not about speed

Let me share what I just did and I'm proud of it. Early this year I bought a Z7 Magnum, but really wanted a Monster MR6. Mathews did not have the Monsters in the shops till early summer. My Z7 Magnum was a fine bow and could stack arrows. When I got the opportunity to shoot a Monster at Archery Den, I knew that is what I wanted and had enough time to get it shooting before season. I wanted to shoot a heavier arrow in the 295 fps range and break the 80 lbs KE barrier. I made a mid term change in bows and have no problem with it. Now, with that said I have no desire at this point to own a 5" brace height bow. I won't change bows for 2 fps or 2 lbs KE, but if I can gain 10-12 lbs KE and still shoot accurate I will consider it. If I wanted to shoot a light arrow I picked up 12 fps with the Monster over the Z7 Magnum. Instead I am shooting a 425 grain arrow the same speed as I was shooting a 373 grain arrow with the Magnum. We are consumers in a free market, so if speed is your obsession, have at it. If a slower bow that is accurate and draws smooth enjoy! There is no need to judge each others motives here.
 
Great point, that's often overlooked! That's why I always buy a fast, quiet bow with very little handshock,it's a given my bow will be tuned to perfection!
 
Here are some results from my new speed bow today...I need to tighten up the long range groups but happy with the results so far:

37 Yards

c2fbab9f.jpg



57 Yards


38a5fcef.jpg



Here was a couple on a broadside shot at 57 yards...definately not up to standard.

11282a25.jpg



And here was the last group at 57 yards...a little fatigued.

80bff38d.jpg
 
UTGrad said:
Let me share what I just did and I'm proud of it. Early this year I bought a Z7 Magnum, but really wanted a Monster MR6. Mathews did not have the Monsters in the shops till early summer. My Z7 Magnum was a fine bow and could stack arrows. When I got the opportunity to shoot a Monster at Archery Den, I knew that is what I wanted and had enough time to get it shooting before season. I wanted to shoot a heavier arrow in the 295 fps range and break the 80 lbs KE barrier. I made a mid term change in bows and have no problem with it. Now, with that said I have no desire at this point to own a 5" brace height bow. I won't change bows for 2 fps or 2 lbs KE, but if I can gain 10-12 lbs KE and still shoot accurate I will consider it. If I wanted to shoot a light arrow I picked up 12 fps with the Monster over the Z7 Magnum. Instead I am shooting a 425 grain arrow the same speed as I was shooting a 373 grain arrow with the Magnum. We are consumers in a free market, so if speed is your obsession, have at it. If a slower bow that is accurate and draws smooth enjoy! There is no need to judge each others motives here.
Click to expand...

Not judging others , just speaking from experience with speeds bows . I have tested and owned quite a few . I did some test work for a company that emphasized speed . One of the bows I just sold was one of the fastest bows on the market . I also tested the fastest arrows on the market . Nice bows , just not any better than what I prefer to shoot for hunting.
I'll take a 7" brace with a smooth draw cycle any day on a cold November rut hunt wearing heavy clothing without a warmup shot . And I'm speaking from experience . I pulled my shoulder out of socket once on a cold December hunt while drawing back a "speed" bow .
 
UTGrad said:
Here was a couple on a broadside shot at 57 yards...definately not up to standard.

11282a25.jpg
Click to expand...

Not a broadside shot. That's a quartering away shot. I think either one woulda done the job, but I'd prefer the one further back. Consider too, though, that at 57 yds, there's a good chance the point of impact would have been higher due to jumping the string. Not bad shooting, nonetheless.
 
I would like to first thank you Radar for sharing with us your knowledge. You've forgot more about archery than I will know. I agree but also disagree. I do look at the IBO on a bow. If myself or anyone else can draw and shoot successfully a high IBO bow, more power to them. If I am looking to buy a sports car, I want the highest horsepower I can afford. Here is where I stand:

1)Shoot the fastest bow you can shoot accurately and comfortably

2) Shoot the heaviest arrow possible that fits a good median between speed and KE. I saw an Easton Flatline Surgical bust in two the other day. It took me several minutes to break my Gold Tip Kinetic off in Knothead's deer target.

The true and trusted adage shoot the bow that is most comfortable is great, but technology is moving fast. If an archer, myself included, is willing to adjust to the bow to maximize performance I can't fault them. If they buy the fastest bow on the market and can't shoot it, they can sell it to then next guy waiting in line for the mega bow!
 
Now Radar you are not towing the line!!! You had better drink up on some of that Kool-Aid all the manufacturers are selling!!! You are gonna be left behind!!! Next thing they will be labeling you a "Throw Back" or "Old School" or an "Elitist"!!!!

But, now that you mention it, I have never had a deer refuse to die because the arrow I just passed between his ribs was not going fast enough!! Maybe Next time!!
 
UTGrad , you have what , two bow seasons under your belt ? There is a huge difference shooting a bow while standing in your backyard in warm weather , wearing short sleeves under relaxed conditions on flat ground , than shooting at a deer from an odd shot angle wearing a heavy jacket when your heart is pounding like crazy from adrenaline .
That 6" brace height and hard draw cycle may be fine on the range , but shooting conditions are much different in the woods .What I'm saying is don't sacrifice too much forgiveness for speed . I shoot a moderately fast bow now , a PSE Dream Season 7 . I like the longer brace . It's a little more forgiving when I need it most , in the woods . I kill deer , not foam .
The best bow hunters I know could kill a deer with a stick and a string if thats all they had . The archer makes the bow .
 
Some really good posts here.

I agree with some but disagree with others.

I'll qualify all the speed issues by saying speed and accuracy are GREAT tools if used correctly. Accuracy is ALWAYS paramount and speed is also important.

But speed is MOST important in 3-D competition. NOT IN HUNTING.

In hunting ACCURACY TRUMPS SPEED.

THis is true because ALL deer are capable of ducking the arrow at todays FASTEST bow speeds. ANd more than likely, we will NEVER see bows with speeds approaching 720 fps (speed of sound).

And if bows did reach 720 fps, accuracy would still reign SUPREME.

As far as hunting is concerned, speed means NOTHING without accuracy (12 rings for that matter).

And there are MANY bows on the market that produce 60 pounds Kinetic Energy at speeds over 260 fps.

Remember, MOST SUCCESSFUL shots on whitetails are UNDER 25 yards. It does not take much of a speed bow to make a top pin "flat" shooting to 25 yards.

And KE that exceeds 60 pounds by much will simply put the arrow and head into the dirt that much farther.

Over the past 30 years of bowhunting I have set and RE-SET my objectives until I have "arrived" at what I believe are BEST FOR ME.

Each season, I want to, not only kill, EVERY deer I shoot at, but I want to make PERFECT double lung shots, on each and every deer I shoot.

In addition, I want a complete pass through with ZERO damage to my arrow after pass through, enabling me to re-use the arrow after putting on a fresh head.

Two years ago, I put my SAME arrow through my FIFTEENTH consecutive deer with only ONE re-fletch, before I hit a rock and shattered the shaft. In MY WORLD of economics, that is EFFICIENT!!!

I have shot LESS KE, and MORE KE. Bothe had BAD outcomes for EFFICIENCY.

I want my arrow to pass through the animal and stick in the ground JUST A LITTLE. Not bury up. I have had several deer kick the arrow shaft as they react to the shot and break the arrow on high KE set-ups.

Also, I do not compete seriously anymore (too much cheating), so I practice with the EXACT set-up I will be using while hunting.

It is quiet, fast (about 262), and forgiving. With a 400 grain arrow, and about 63 pounds draw, I am accurate. It has an 8.25 inch brace height.

If I could find a 50 lb. bow, reasonably priced, that could deliver about 62 or so lbs. KE while shooting fairly flat to 25 yards with an 8 inch bracey, and smooth, quiet characteristics, I'd buy it.

I will be looking next February.

102
 
I can agree with that , 102 . You speak from experience . I'd have to say my speed and KE are probably pretty close to your's . I think the excessive speeds and KE are more ego driven than anything . It doesn't take that much KE to kill a whitetail , given the shot is accurate and the design of the broadhead doesn't squander energy.
Here is a good article on KE and penetration :
http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/pra ... /index.cfm
 
Hoss said:
Now Radar you are not towing the line!!! You had better drink up on some of that Kool-Aid all the manufacturers are selling!!! You are gonna be left behind!!! Next thing they will be labeling you a "Throw Back" or "Old School" or an "
Click to expand...

I'm with Radar all the way on this one. And, I have been labeled as "Old School". And, by some on here.
But, that's OK. I translate that to mean "experience".
 
Radar said:
UTGrad , you have what , two bow seasons under your belt ? There is a huge difference shooting a bow while standing in your backyard in warm weather , wearing short sleeves under relaxed conditions on flat ground , than shooting at a deer from an odd shot angle wearing a heavy jacket when your heart is pounding like crazy from adrenaline .
That 6" brace height and hard draw cycle may be fine on the range , but shooting conditions are much different in the woods .What I'm saying is don't sacrifice too much forgiveness for speed . I shoot a moderately fast bow now , a PSE Dream Season 7 . I like the longer brace . It's a little more forgiving when I need it most , in the woods . I kill deer , not foam .
The best bow hunters I know could kill a deer with a stick and a string if thats all they had . The archer makes the bow .
Click to expand...

I've learned more in 2 seasons about archery than some care to know. I'm hungry for knowledge, eager to learn and practice religiously. In 2 seasons I've killed 6 deer and my first ever turkey with a bow. I believe if a person can shoot a speed bow and stack arrows, they have an advantage over the slower bow. This is what I believe at this early point in my bowhunting career
 
UTGrad said:
Radar said:
UTGrad , you have what , two bow seasons under your belt ? There is a huge difference shooting a bow while standing in your backyard in warm weather , wearing short sleeves under relaxed conditions on flat ground , than shooting at a deer from an odd shot angle wearing a heavy jacket when your heart is pounding like crazy from adrenaline .
That 6" brace height and hard draw cycle may be fine on the range , but shooting conditions are much different in the woods .What I'm saying is don't sacrifice too much forgiveness for speed . I shoot a moderately fast bow now , a PSE Dream Season 7 . I like the longer brace . It's a little more forgiving when I need it most , in the woods . I kill deer , not foam .
The best bow hunters I know could kill a deer with a stick and a string if thats all they had . The archer makes the bow .
Click to expand...

I've learned more in 2 seasons about archery than some care to know. I'm hungry for knowledge, eager to learn and practice religiously. In 2 seasons I've killed 6 deer and my first ever turkey with a bow. I believe if a person can shoot a speed bow and stack arrows, they have an advantage over the slower bow. This is what I believe at this early point in my bowhunting career
Click to expand...
Agree... Doesn't matter what you label the bow, if I can shoot a speed bow as accurately as a so called forgiving bow , then the speed definitely gives me the advantage... But without accuracy it doesn't matter if your throwing rocks unless you have a grenade on the end of your arrow !! The way bows are now ,I can shoot a 60# speed bow and it will be as smooth if not smoother and give me better performance (speed) along with better accuracy than the longer braced bows at 70lbs. So why not let speed be a factor (although not the only ) when buying a bow??
 
I could care less about how fast my bow is shooting, just as long as I can shoot out to 35 yds with one pin out of my hunting set up. With that being said I shoot 65 lbs and shooting 315 fps. And could careless what someone thought about my setup wheather I was shooting 262 fps or 350 fps.
 
I sold a bow that shot 315 fps with speed pro arrows @ 63 lbs . I didn't like the super lightweight arrows , so I shot heavier arrows . I'm not sure what the speed was with the heavier arrows , but it was more controllable speed with the broadheads I was shooting .
I'm not caught up in chrono readings to determine the best setup .
 
To each his own, but I agree accuracy first and if You are able to shoot that speed bow comfortably and accurately under all conditions. I say go for it. I do agree with ut grad though the high speed ke of a 400 grain arrow does sometimes make up for marginal shots (mainly shoulder) because god knows there isn't a man alive that won't make some bad shots although I do admire the ones that absolutely try their best to make a clean , ethical kill!! So there are benefits to more "power" in your archery setup otherwise we would all shoot traditional equipment Or 45# bows if that's all that's needed ... Right??
 
Radar said:
I sold a bow that shot 315 fps with speed pro arrows @ 63 lbs . I didn't like the super lightweight arrows , so I shot heavier arrows . I'm not sure what the speed was with the heavier arrows , but it was more controllable speed with the broadheads I was shooting .
What I'm getting at is that bowhunting accuracy with broadheads isn't about obtaining the fastest speed with a given setup . Shoot the setup that will give you the best accuracy with broadheads , and is a little more forgiving under adverse hunting conditions .
I'm not caught up in chrono readings to determine the best setup .
UTGrad said:
About to take the MR6 back....bow was shooting slower than a Parker Blackhawk I had in 2009...I'm pretty upset.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

And that is why I'm shooting a heavier arrow out of a speed bow. I don't like thin walled ultra light arrows either. I like that I can shoot a heavy arrow 295 vs 280 fps. This is where I get impressed. Anybody can get blazing speed from thin walled shafts that might blow up any minute. If i can shoot a "hunting" arrow faster that is where I want to be. This brings me back to my fascination with KE and Momentum. 40 lbs KE is sufficient to take whitetail deer in the right scenario and correct broadhead. 80 lbs KE I can use a large 2" cut expandable and devastate a deer. That is what I want. I want to do as much damage as possible with a large cutting expandable as possible and still get a pass though. Now, If I hit the shoulder there is no gurantee, but hopefully through devoted practice and patience at the moment of truth I will stay away from the shoulder.
 
I shot a frickin' 85 lb. bow with a 500 gr. arrow back in the days . I had more KE than I needed . I'm glad those macho days are over .
 
UTGrad , you are bragging about the benefits of using a speed bow for hunting , but have you shot a deer with your speed bow yet ?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top