Outlaw decoys

[Goodtimekiller]

I shot 48 turkeys over decoys this year. The decoys did not harm one of the turkeys and i have never seen a decoy hurt a turkey. It is not fair to blame the decoys.


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Every time it seems you get on the right track, you backslide to old ways.
I know you are kidding about the number but I also hope you are kidding about the rest of it as well.
If not, then how many do you think you would of killed without the decoys?
Decoys,especially strutters, lead to the demise of field birds that normally would not get killed at all.

Take away decoys and you would not see near as many guys posting pics of 1.5" spurs.

As comical as the statement is, to me, i couldn't post anything serious. In my personal experience and the people i talk to, i have seen and heard of way more turkeys running away from decoys than running into them. That's the honest truth. It seems the people who want them outlawed are the people who do not hunt with them that do not know this fact. To me, the people that do not hunt with them are making assumptions that they are extremely effective killing machines because of the videos they see and the stories they hear. But, the truth is no one posts videos or tell the stories of all the turkeys that run from them, that's not really all that exciting. Sure, many turkeys are killed every year with decoys that might not have been killed otherwise, but we could say the same about many things but where do we draw the line? Do we make the first half of turkey season a bow only season, i bet that would help the population more. Do we outlaw calls? I bet close to 100% of turkeys killed over decoys were drawn to the decoys by calls. And what about all the turkeys that are killed with calls and no decoys? What about locator calls? They help us find the the turkeys. I know many will think this is crazy, and it is, but remember we live in a country of 90% nonhunters, people get crazy. I have talked to people who have dug holes in a field during the middle of the night to lay in it to shoot a turkey the next day. Do we outlaw hole digging?

In my opinion, there are many things that i've seen that cause more deaths to turkeys that should be addressed way before decoys. To say that if we are not addressing decoys we are doing nothing seems pretty off base to me.


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I love these statements. Evidence ain't on your side junior. There are thousands and thousands upon thousands of videos showing the exact opposite. Hell go find the topic I posted a few years ago when I got invited on a blind decoy outing. It's a joke, I've never seen anything that effective

You are watching videos and hearing thousands of stories with over hundreds of thousands to millions of birds being killed every year. Do you think that every time someone goes out and pops up a decoy they kill a bird? That is absurd. Or that every time someone crawls 200 yards behind a strutting decoy its always a success? Then you really have no clue. I am not sure if you calling me junior was planned as derogatory but i guess it probably means i have hunted turkeys for a greater percentage of my life than you have. And just because i hunt them differently does not make me less of a hunter than you. Yes, sometimes decoys are extremely effective, but what i am trying to tell you, is that it is not common, at least in my experience and the experiences of all the people all i know that turkey hunt, which is what i said earlier. But, i have seen calling just as effective as decoys. Do you know how many stories i hear every year "i yelped softly" or "i purred just a little" or "i cut" "and they came running in on a string"? From guys that haven't hunted more than 5-6 years and some that are barely teenagers. I had a buddy that bought a push button box call for his 10 year old son at the nwtf convention. The went hunting twice. The one time they killed a bird he let his son make any sound he wanted to or do whatever he wanted to on the call and a bird came right in.

I would bet for every success you see on a video of birds barreling into decoys there are 5-10 unfilmed hunts where the birds did not come in, senior.


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[Goodtimekiller]

Do we outlaw calls? I bet close to 100% of turkeys killed over decoys were drawn to the decoys by calls.

I know you are just trying to make your point and justify a method of hunting, but this sentence is so silly that I just can't take anything you said serious.

Do you disagree with the statement?


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[Goodtimekiller]

In my opinion, there are many things that i've seen that cause more deaths to turkeys that should be addressed way before decoys. To say that if we are not addressing decoys we are doing nothing seems pretty off base to me.



Please tell us!!! Bait is the only thing I can think of.......

And my initial statement was actually poking fun at people who lay blame on inanimate objects. The decoys are not killing the turkeys, the people are killing the turkeys, like the left wing argument that guns kill people and gun control will solve the problem. My main point in that statement was people control will control turkey deaths, state or personally mandated.


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[Southern Sportsman]

Do we outlaw calls? I bet close to 100% of turkeys killed over decoys were drawn to the decoys by calls.

I know you are just trying to make your point and justify a method of hunting, but this sentence is so silly that I just can't take anything you said serious.

Do you disagree with the statement?

Very much so. There are certainly people who use them in conjunction and a turkey comes part of the way until it sees the decoys. But there are a whole lot of people who find field turkeys, pop up a tent early the next morning, stake out decoys, and shoot turkeys 15 minutes after fly down. Most of them cary calls with them because they are turkey hunting, but the calls play absolutely no part in killing the turkey whether they yelp on it or not. And many more people simply set up decoys in areas that turkeys frequent and wait, often in a tent but not always. They call occasionally, but turkeys show up in that area because thats where they live. Turkeys then get killed and those people claim to have called in the turkey.

To say that "close to 100%" of turkeys killed over decoys were called to the decoys is so wrong that it detracts from some of your more credible points.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

Do we outlaw calls? I bet close to 100% of turkeys killed over decoys were drawn to the decoys by calls.

I know you are just trying to make your point and justify a method of hunting, but this sentence is so silly that I just can't take anything you said serious.

Do you disagree with the statement?

Very much so. There are certainly people who use them in conjunction and a turkey comes part of the way until it sees the decoys. But there are a whole lot of people who find field turkeys, pop up a tent early the next morning, stake out decoys, and shoot turkeys 15 minutes after fly down. Most of them cary calls with them because they are turkey hunting, but the calls play absolutely no part in killing the turkey whether they yelp on it or not. And many more people simply set up decoys in areas that turkeys frequent and wait, often in a tent but not always. They call occasionally, but turkeys show up in that area because thats where they live. Turkeys then get killed and those people claim to have called in the turkey.

To say that "close to 100%" of turkeys killed over decoys were called to the decoys is so wrong that it detracts from some of your more credible points.

My comment was "drawn to the decoys by calls", meaning their attention was drawn and that is what made them notice the decoys not that the calls convinced them to come in. But i tend to disagree a little, just because turkeys are in an area and see decoys does not mean they will come to the decoys, in my experience i would say it's been 50/50. But how many turkeys would not be drawn to an area to see decoys if someone had not been calling.

But none of this really gets to the point i was making, calls create the opportunity for many many turkeys to be killed, just like decoys. So where is the line drawn and who draws it? No one has answered those questions for me.



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[Setterman]

There is absolutely zero defense for the ease of sitting in a blind in a cow pasture and shooting a turkey. Make whatever claim you'd like if it makes you feel better. But next year leave that junk behind and take a gun/call and see how you do.

The way the vast majority of plastic turkey worshippers utilize the tactic is embarrassing. It is nothing comparable to hunting turkeys in the woods with only a call and gun. Saying it's easy to pick the proper set up, not boob up with nothing to hide your movement, and not get picked off if naive at best. Those words are only spoken by a hunter who does very little actual turkey hunting, and much more blind sitting.

 

[Roost 1]

Very much so. There are certainly people who use them in conjunction and a turkey comes part of the way until it sees the decoys. But there are a whole lot of people who find field turkeys, pop up a tent early the next morning, stake out decoys, and shoot turkeys 15 minutes after fly down. Most of them cary calls with them because they are turkey hunting, but the calls play absolutely no part in killing the turkey whether they yelp on it or not. And many more people simply set up decoys in areas that turkeys frequent and wait, often in a tent but not always. They call occasionally, but turkeys show up in that area because thats where they live. Turkeys then get killed and those people claim to have called in the turkey.

To say that "close to 100%" of turkeys killed over decoys were called to the decoys is so wrong that it detracts from some of your more credible points.

I could not agree more. I know guys that never killed a bird before strutting decoys hit the market. Now they kill
A limit and take others as well. These guys don't own a turkey call. Just go deer hunt turkeys with great success.

 

[AT Hiker]

That's a brilliant idea.
For years I've always said you could sit a pink flamingo out in a field and a horny Tom would come running to it.
I think I will call it "the outlaw deke"

A guy from Alabama already beat you to the proprietary punch. Enjoy:

http://gobblernation.com/phpBB3/viewtop ... it=badonka

I'm usually a day late and a dollar short...


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[Goodtimekiller]

There is absolutely zero defense for the ease of sitting in a blind in a cow pasture and shooting a turkey. Make whatever claim you'd like if it makes you feel better. But next year leave that junk behind and take a gun/call and see how you do.

The way the vast majority of plastic turkey worshippers utilize the tactic is embarrassing. It is nothing comparable to hunting turkeys in the woods with only a call and gun. Saying it's easy to pick the proper set up, not boob up with nothing to hide your movement, and not get picked off if naive at best. Those words are only spoken by a hunter who does very little actual turkey hunting, and much more blind sitting.

I do not hunt out of blinds. But why must we criticize those that do? Out west some people hunt elk out of stands, i never will, i want to chase bugles around the mountain and call them. Some people want to spot and stalk without calls. There are different ways of hunting, why can't we respect that.

I totally agree, sitting in a blind is much easier to kill a turkey in some instances because you can move around and not be seen, etc. But we all know, if you're not where they want to be they probably aren't coming.

Trust me, i've boobed up my fair share of turkeys. I can't remember ever killing one out of a blind. But if someone wants to why can't we be happy for them. Some people run the 100yd dash and some run marathons. Like i've said, some people shoot them with bows without blinds, do i think that makes them better than me? Yes. Do i want to put myself through that misery? Not yet. But come on, lets quit distancing each other. I don't really care how someone legally kills a turkey, i just want to enjoy their happiness and hear the story.


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[Goodtimekiller]

Very much so. There are certainly people who use them in conjunction and a turkey comes part of the way until it sees the decoys. But there are a whole lot of people who find field turkeys, pop up a tent early the next morning, stake out decoys, and shoot turkeys 15 minutes after fly down. Most of them cary calls with them because they are turkey hunting, but the calls play absolutely no part in killing the turkey whether they yelp on it or not. And many more people simply set up decoys in areas that turkeys frequent and wait, often in a tent but not always. They call occasionally, but turkeys show up in that area because thats where they live. Turkeys then get killed and those people claim to have called in the turkey.

To say that "close to 100%" of turkeys killed over decoys were called to the decoys is so wrong that it detracts from some of your more credible points.

I could not agree more. I know guys that never killed a bird before strutting decoys hit the market. Now they kill
A limit and take others as well. These guys don't own a turkey call. Just go deer hunt turkeys with great success.

Maybe so, but i can say i don't know that i know anyone like that. Every hunter i know has a call in each pocket and a padded seat hanging from the vest. Should we outlaw those, they do make long sets easier (just a joke).

But no one has answered my question yet about who gets to draw the line.

But only 4% on tennesseans are killing (or maybe reporting) 4 kills, so is it all really that easy?


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[Setterman]

There is absolutely zero defense for the ease of sitting in a blind in a cow pasture and shooting a turkey. Make whatever claim you'd like if it makes you feel better. But next year leave that junk behind and take a gun/call and see how you do.

The way the vast majority of plastic turkey worshippers utilize the tactic is embarrassing. It is nothing comparable to hunting turkeys in the woods with only a call and gun. Saying it's easy to pick the proper set up, not boob up with nothing to hide your movement, and not get picked off if naive at best. Those words are only spoken by a hunter who does very little actual turkey hunting, and much more blind sitting.

I do not hunt out of blinds. But why must we criticize those that do? Out west some people hunt elk out of stands, i never will, i want to chase bugles around the mountain and call them. Some people want to spot and stalk without calls. There are different ways of hunting, why can't we respect that.

I totally agree, sitting in a blind is much easier to kill a turkey in some instances because you can move around and not be seen, etc. But we all know, if you're not where they want to be they probably aren't coming.

Trust me, i've boobed up my fair share of turkeys. I can't remember ever killing one out of a blind. But if someone wants to why can't we be happy for them. Some people run the 100yd dash and some run marathons. Like i've said, some people shoot them with bows without blinds, do i think that makes them better than me? Yes. Do i want to put myself through that misery? Not yet. But come on, lets quit distancing each other. I don't really care how someone legally kills a turkey, i just want to enjoy their happiness and hear the story.


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My issue is that if there's a tool or tactic allows googans to have success when those same hunters would get destroyed hunting any other way it is providing an unfair advantage and isn't fair chase. If there's a tool or tactic that removes so many of the challenges from a form of hunt it should be removed.

Sitting in a blind allows unlimited movement and eliminates one major challenge of killing turkeys.
Using strutters decoys or fans preys on a dominant birds most primal instincts and causes them to act in a way that makes harvesting said bird very easy.

In my eyes it's not much different than sitting over a pile of corn.

I know my views are strong, but I strongly believe decoys, fans, and blinds are the worst epidemic to ever hit the hunting world. It allows so many incapable hunters to become capable and absolutely destroys the foundations of this sport.

You cannot tell me that the tent hunters with decoys have a chance in hell of killing a bird with nothing but a call and the woods? The answer is they don't, that's why they take the easiest approach imaginable so they have the pictures to show

 

[Goodtimekiller]

There is absolutely zero defense for the ease of sitting in a blind in a cow pasture and shooting a turkey. Make whatever claim you'd like if it makes you feel better. But next year leave that junk behind and take a gun/call and see how you do.

The way the vast majority of plastic turkey worshippers utilize the tactic is embarrassing. It is nothing comparable to hunting turkeys in the woods with only a call and gun. Saying it's easy to pick the proper set up, not boob up with nothing to hide your movement, and not get picked off if naive at best. Those words are only spoken by a hunter who does very little actual turkey hunting, and much more blind sitting.

I do not hunt out of blinds. But why must we criticize those that do? Out west some people hunt elk out of stands, i never will, i want to chase bugles around the mountain and call them. Some people want to spot and stalk without calls. There are different ways of hunting, why can't we respect that.

I totally agree, sitting in a blind is much easier to kill a turkey in some instances because you can move around and not be seen, etc. But we all know, if you're not where they want to be they probably aren't coming.

Trust me, i've boobed up my fair share of turkeys. I can't remember ever killing one out of a blind. But if someone wants to why can't we be happy for them. Some people run the 100yd dash and some run marathons. Like i've said, some people shoot them with bows without blinds, do i think that makes them better than me? Yes. Do i want to put myself through that misery? Not yet. But come on, lets quit distancing each other. I don't really care how someone legally kills a turkey, i just want to enjoy their happiness and hear the story.


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My issue is that if there's a tool or tactic allows googans to have success when those same hunters would get destroyed hunting any other way it is providing an unfair advantage and isn't fair chase. If there's a tool or tactic that removes so many of the challenges from a form of hunt it should be removed.

Sitting in a blind allows unlimited movement and eliminates one major challenge of killing turkeys.
Using strutters decoys or fans preys on a dominant birds most primal instincts and causes them to act in a way that makes harvesting said bird very easy.

In my eyes it's not much different than sitting over a pile of corn.

I know my views are strong, but I strongly believe decoys, fans, and blinds are the worst epidemic to ever hit the hunting world. It allows so many incapable hunters to become capable and absolutely destroys the foundations of this sport.

You cannot tell me that the tent hunters with decoys have a chance in hell of killing a bird with nothing but a call and the woods? The answer is they don't, that's why they take the easiest approach imaginable so they have the pictures to show

I can see your point in most of what you said and agree with some of it, but i dont think it is nearly as easy as you think it is the majority of the time, just from the hundreds of hours i spend hunting every year with a huge assortment of people. But like ive said, ive seen 10 year olds call in birds sounding like a hurt puppy, heck i sounded worse than that, and probably still do, when i called in my first bird.

But i can see some saying a call gives the hunter an unfair advantage.

I know you have strong beliefs, i do too, but the thing is, we are after the same goal, we just think it should be reached in different ways. And i may not be as young as you think, i just have a youthful attitude and language!


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[Southern Sportsman]

But no one has answered my question yet about who gets to draw the line.

"The line" that you are asking about is the line between traditional methods of killing turkeys and modern methods of killing turkeys. The traditional method has been accepted for decades and it is how many of us were taught. It is generally more challenging than the newer methods and more rewarding. The newer methods are a whole lot more about killing turkeys and less about the sport of turkey hunting. The line gets drawn, literally, by the fish a wildlife commission. But the commission is (or should be) representatives of the people. So in theory the line is drawn by public opinion as to what is "right" and "wrong" in turkey hunting.

In the early part of last century, it was common to hunt turkeys over bait. Archibald Rutledge wrote poetic books about the hundreds of turkeys he killed, and he is generally considered a great turkey hunter for his time. He had a black man named Prince who would locate turkeys, build a blind, put out corn, and Archibald would go kill the turkeys (plural). That was just the way it was done. He also shot plenty with a .22 rifle and routinely shot them off the roost late in the evening. But after turkeys were essentially eradicated by "hunting" methods that were overly efficient and limits that were too liberal, the opinion of conservation minded sportsmen collectively changed (certainly not without holdouts and critics) and it was generally decided that hunting over corn is not terribly sporting, rifles give hunters too much of an advantage over turkeys, and maybe we shouldn't shoot them out of trees in the dark. To preserve the resource and to make the hunt sporting, it was decided that some things ought not be allowed. Like all change, that discussion probably started with a few people who were in the minority, but their opinions spread.

I am absolutely not a member of the "if it's legal good for you" club. If earlier conservations had taken that approach, they would have never imposed game limits or prohibited killing turkeys over baited trenches. They were willing to say, legal or not, some things are wrong and if they are legal, the law should be changed. Eventually it was. Our turkey population is plummeting, so it's not the time to hold hands and sing kumbaya. If someone thinks that a method of hunting is unsporting, takes unfair advantage of the game, and is having a negative affect on our statewide turkey population, he would be a coward not to stand up and say something. Those of us who are opposed to decoys may never win the battle. But if enough support gets behind the position, then public opinion could convince the fish and wildlife commission to draw the line there. So, to answer your question, no individual draws the line. But debate is ultimately how lines do get drawn.

 

[AT Hiker]

Why is it so hard to understand the line? Staking a strutter decoy out is child's play versus using a manual call to lure a bird in.



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[Roost 1]

I'll go out on a limb and say a large percentage of today's turkey killers have never hunted without a strutting decoy and/or blinds so that's all they know. And since this method is not 100% effective, this is their basis for arguing. However they can not comprehend how low their odds would be on dominate henned field gobblers without these decoys and gadgets.
I can remember when we only had a 5 day season and I'd spend the whole time trying to kill that one old bird. Now just put up a strutter, kill the gobbler after flydown after he bulldozes the decoy and then head to the Waffle House doing your best Michael waddle impression. :bash:

 

[Goodtimekiller]

But no one has answered my question yet about who gets to draw the line.

"The line" that you are asking about is the line between traditional methods of killing turkeys and modern methods of killing turkeys. The traditional method has been accepted for decades and it is how many of us were taught. It is generally more challenging than the newer methods and more rewarding. The newer methods are a whole lot more about killing turkeys and less about the sport of turkey hunting. The line gets drawn, literally, by the fish a wildlife commission. But the commission is (or should be) representatives of the people. So in theory the line is drawn by public opinion as to what is "right" and "wrong" in turkey hunting.

In the early part of last century, it was common to hunt turkeys over bait. Archibald Rutledge wrote poetic books about the hundreds of turkeys he killed, and he is generally considered a great turkey hunter for his time. He had a black man named Prince who would locate turkeys, build a blind, put out corn, and Archibald would go kill the turkeys (plural). That was just the way it was done. He also shot plenty with a .22 rifle and routinely shot them off the roost late in the evening. But after turkeys were essentially eradicated by "hunting" methods that were overly efficient and limits that were too liberal, the opinion of conservation minded sportsmen collectively changed (certainly not without holdouts and critics) and it was generally decided that hunting over corn is not terribly sporting, rifles give hunters too much of an advantage over turkeys, and maybe we shouldn't shoot them out of trees in the dark. To preserve the resource and to make the hunt sporting, it was decided that some things ought not be allowed. Like all change, that discussion probably started with a few people who were in the minority, but their opinions spread.

I am absolutely not a member of the "if it's legal good for you" club. If earlier conservations had taken that approach, they would have never imposed game limits or prohibited killing turkeys over baited trenches. They were willing to say, legal or not, some things are wrong and if they are legal, the law should be changed. Eventually it was. Our turkey population is plummeting, so it's not the time to hold hands and sing kumbaya. If someone thinks that a method of hunting is unsporting, takes unfair advantage of the game, and is having a negative affect on our statewide turkey population, he would be a coward not to stand up and say something. Those of us who are opposed to decoys may never win the battle. But if enough support gets behind the position, then public opinion could convince the fish and wildlife commission to draw the line there. So, to answer your question, no individual draws the line. But debate is ultimately how lines do get drawn.

To say your traditional hunting is more challenging is not true. Maybe more mentally challenging, but i do not know anything much more challenging than belly crawling 200 yds holding a decoy and a gun, trying not to be seen by 10-15 turkeys and get close enough to one particular one for a shot. And the reward of that is pretty incredible. The sport of turkey hunting means different things to different people, so lets outlaw the ones we don't agree with? And the public is the one who draws the lines, remembering 90% of the public is nonhunting. Sure most nonhunters dont care but let some of them get wind or hear of this and they'll be sure to jump in.

Earlier i said it is the regulations, public or personal that one sets that will kill or not kill turkeys, its not the decoys. But if the twra, nwtf, federal f&w and myself see no reason to exclude decoys then why shouldnt i use them if they make the sport more enjoyable to me? Now if things go awry and change then yes, regulations should change, i agree with that, but like i said earlier, many things cause way more deaths than turkey decoys and thats where we should be focused.

I never said anyone should not give their opinion, as a matter of fact, i invite and promote it, but at the same time im giving mine. And my opinion is not that decoys should be legal or illegal but what about the all the other stuff. Camo helps conceal a good bit of movement and body shape. I sat in the middle of a cow pasture with a buddy this year and had 6 turkeys at 8 feet for a long time with no cover. If i had been in a white t-shirt would that happen? Who knows.

So no, maybe its not time to join hands and sing kumbayya, but we better join hands and do something, we make up 10% of the population.


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[Goodtimekiller]

Why is it so hard to understand the line? Staking a strutter decoy out is child's play versus using a manual call to lure a bird in.



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Then you havent done it much


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[Goodtimekiller]

I'll go out on a limb and say a large percentage of today's turkey killers have never hunted without a strutting decoy and/or blinds so that's all they know. And since this method is not 100% effective, this is their basis for arguing. However they can not comprehend how low their odds would be on dominate henned field gobblers without these decoys and gadgets.
I can remember when we only had a 5 day season and I'd spend the whole time trying to kill that one old bird. Now just put up a strutter, kill the gobbler after flydown after he bulldozes the decoy and then head to the Waffle House doing your best Michael waddle impression. :bash:

Then why don't all of those young hunters limit out so quick?


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[Roost 1]

Try crawling 200 yards without a decoy to hide your movements...

 

[Goodtimekiller]

Try crawling 200 yards without a decoy to hide your movements...

Done that too, not nearly as painful.


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