BPhunter
Well-Known Member
Pretty common out west....haven't seen it yet. But I'm a meat hunter....so I'm not really that paramoid.
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Help Support TNDeer:
Trail cameras ban
- Thread starter deerhunter10
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deerhunter10
Well-Known Member
I may be wrong but i think some public land use to be that way. I think I remember hearing something about Missouri being that way.
ImThere
Well-Known Member
I hunt 100% public.
If they ban cameras they should ban them 100%. I don't understand why guys are against public land use of trail cams. What does it matter if I'm running a camera on public? I still have to be there when the deer are. I don't think running a camera means you're going to kill the buck you got a picture of.
I've had more problems with surrounding owners being douche bags than fellow public land hunters.
I do agree if there isn't an open season everything should be out of the woods. And I mean everything. I've carried a lot of trash out of the woods and I've seen nimrod777, Catman and Bigasports all carry trash out.
Maybe trail cams should be considered hunting so a season would have to be open to run them.
If they ban cameras they should ban them 100%. I don't understand why guys are against public land use of trail cams. What does it matter if I'm running a camera on public? I still have to be there when the deer are. I don't think running a camera means you're going to kill the buck you got a picture of.
I've had more problems with surrounding owners being douche bags than fellow public land hunters.
I do agree if there isn't an open season everything should be out of the woods. And I mean everything. I've carried a lot of trash out of the woods and I've seen nimrod777, Catman and Bigasports all carry trash out.
Maybe trail cams should be considered hunting so a season would have to be open to run them.
I'm not aware of the specifics but I do know some public lands require filming permits. Some places may be off limits as well, like your MO example.
BPhunter
Well-Known Member
I don't know who AT Hiker is but the dude is on a real laughing streak
If these idiots can pack in a 6pack I don't see why they can't pack out 6 empties. Makes me so mad.
killingtime 41
Well-Known Member
I hunt 100 percent public. If an area has lots of acres. And lots of room to move around. Cameras probably don't mean much. But small pieces I could see where it would potentially be a problem.
BSK
Well-Known Member
That's probably the problem. On smaller public hunting lands, where easily identifiable travel patterns are limited, each of these would get covered with cams. just like the waterholes out West.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
There is another issue some are over-looking:
The presence of trail cams on a property vs. the physical presence of more people "scouting" physically in person.
IMO, the presence of trail cams is preferable to more people in person physically "scouting".
The use of trail cams reduces the amount of in person scouting.
I'll even argue that often, hunters' in person physically "scouting" puts more pressure on deer, especially in smaller tracts, than actual "hunting".
Same for large tracts.
Every time there is a quota hunt at LBL, what really causes the deer to be more nocturnal, and not seen by hunters during the hunt, is all the hunters heavily "scouting" the day before.
The presence of trail cams on a property vs. the physical presence of more people "scouting" physically in person.
IMO, the presence of trail cams is preferable to more people in person physically "scouting".
The use of trail cams reduces the amount of in person scouting.
I'll even argue that often, hunters' in person physically "scouting" puts more pressure on deer, especially in smaller tracts, than actual "hunting".
Same for large tracts.
Every time there is a quota hunt at LBL, what really causes the deer to be more nocturnal, and not seen by hunters during the hunt, is all the hunters heavily "scouting" the day before.
BSK
Well-Known Member
I completely agree with all of this.
Of course, the question of banning trail-cameras on public hunting land comes down to the problem. What is the perceived or real problem?
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I believe the "problem" (at least in Tennessee) is more "perceived" than "real".
And much of this perception is based largely on false narratives from people who have never used a trail cam, and/or never used a cell cam. In fact, I've often seen the use of trail cams do more harm to the hunter using them, while actually providing greater advantage to other hunters not using cams. Go figure that one.
GENERALLY SPEAKING, in MOST REAL hunting situations, getting a sudden "trophy" animal pic to come in to your phone or computer from a cell cam does NOT allow you to simply walk over and shoot that animal. Yet this is exactly what many non-cam hunters and non-hunters very erroneously seem to think.
Knowing there's something better "out there", the trail cam user is more likely to give a pass to numerous other bucks, enhancing the shooter buck opportunities for all other hunters. And what commonly happens is that one of those other hunters luckily shoots a particular "target" buck of someone using a trail cam. Ironically, it is the trail cam user who often ends up shooting fewer bucks due to his use of trail cams. Ask me how I know.
Are there exceptions to this generality? Absolutely.
But most of those exceptions were already either illegal or unethical, i.e. not the typical type hunting situation of most hunters. In fact, at least in TN, most of these illegal/unethical exceptions would or could only happen on private lands, not public.
A common "exception" is the guy who has a corn feeder behind his house, a night scope on his suppressed rifle, and a cell cam monitoring his corn feeder. Cell cam goes off at 1am, trophy buck is feeding 100 yds behind his house. He pokes his rifle out the back bedroom window and kills it, maybe not even waking up his neighbors. I hate this situation, and the fact so many these poachers get away with it (in the short run), but it is not a legitimate reason to ban trail cams, nor is it happening to much extent on public lands in TN.
It's similar to the situation of banning guns.
If we outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns?
Poachers do not obey game laws any more than convicted felons obey gun laws.
They're going to do whatever they think gives them an advantage, legal or illegal,
so long as they think they can get away with it.
Too many our laws & polices already punish the honest majority while rewarding the dishonest who never obey those laws in the first place.
IMO, the disdain and much of the negative projection towards other hunters using trail cams is more a case of the "Have Nots" vs. the "Haves", and is as much a situation of misunderstandings as it is of negative projection (and sometimes jealousy) by the "Have Nots".
Do trail cams give the users an advantage? I think so.
Do trail cams give those not using them an advantage? I think so.
I think their use is a positive for both the users and the other hunters who choose not to use trail cams.
But after decades of using trail cams, I believe most trail cam users are creating for themselves an advantage on one hand, while sabotaging their own success potential on the other. This is mainly due to a lot of false narratives and inexperience with both trail cams and hunting. The most common mistake is thinking you're going to kill a particular buck anywhere near where you're regularly getting his picture.
I'm talking about the normal situations in TN, not some isolated water source in the middle of an Arizona desert.
So again, "generally speaking", but isn't that what we should base most our policy and general decisions, rather than a few "exceptions" or the illegal activities of a few?
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BSK
Well-Known Member
A lot of wisdom and truth in your post TheLBLman, obviously garnered from personal experience.
Couldn't agree more. I've been using trail-cams intensively for over 20 years, and I can honestly say I've never had a trail-cam tell me where and when to kill a particular buck. The deer using my habitat/terrain don't have distinct enough travel patterns for that to be a possibility. In fact, I almost always kill a particular buck I'm after far from where I normally get his pictures. The one way trail-cams have helped me kill a particular buck is by simply letting me know he exists. By knowing he exists, I pass up other bucks hoping to see the target buck. And as you pointed out, this then aids the other hunters in the area, as they may end up killing one of the decent bucks I pass up while wait for "Mr. Big."
Well said.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Over & over, I've seen "most" hunters using trail cams
OVERHUNT a specific spot
simply because that "spot" was where they were getting the most trail cam pics of a particular target buck.
This is the most common way trail cam users "sabotage" their own success opportunities.
But at the same time, those hunters hunt less in other areas.
Those other areas become the places some other hunters (whether he uses trail cams or not) typically kills the target buck of the trail cam user overhunting his spots.
Having run trail cams for years over a very large area (many cams miles apart), it's been more the norm than the exception that a particular target buck was killed 1/2 to 1 mile from where his pics were regularly being taken, even within the past 24 hrs of his death.
The big trail-cam advantage to everyone is simply knowing particular bucks exist.
Such knowledge is also why many years I go "buck-less"
while I see numerous other hunters enjoy killing the very bucks I've given a pass.
Let me rephrase that: I typically myself "enjoy" seeing those other hunters getting many those bucks I pass, especially when it's the largest antlered buck they've ever killed.
Without my using trail cams, I would personally be killing more bucks,
at the expense of other hunters.
As some other hunters may point out, trail cams are not needed for scouting, and "boots on the ground" scouting is often better, much better. But it is always more intrusive, putting more pressure on the area's deer. Trail cams allow me to have a better balance, as well as to "know" about certain bucks I otherwise wouldn't.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Scouting has to be the greatest Catch 22 there is in deer hunting. You can't know where the sign is unless you scout. The more you scout, the more you drive the bucks you're hunting away or at least nocturnal.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
And THIS my friend is why I'm typically not bothered when I run across other hunters' trail cams on public lands. I know that most hunters using trail cams are going to physically scout LESS, disturbing the deer in that area LESS, than if these same hunters were not using trail cams in those areas.
But at the same time, I just assume those hunters are disturbing the area anyway, and look for the areas deer will gravitate to (during daylight). These tend to be areas where human visibility is more limited, but often just areas most hunters don't "think" are good places. So for me, seeing other hunters trail cams on public lands (private too) often just helps me "hunt the hunters", perhaps more a positive for me than for them.
Sometimes these areas are remarkably close to major roads and parking areas where many hunters tend to park with their efforts of going "way off" the roads. The center of a big land mass often ends up with more hunters than the peripheral area around it! This can be because hunters come to the center from 4 directions. leaving many areas from the direction they came, relatively un-hunted and much less disturbed by non-routine human activity. Deer actually habituate to routine human activity (cars going down a road, a farmer daily delivering hay to cattle, etc.)
Often, we increase our hunting odds by "hunting the hunters" more than hunting the deer sign. Just go where the other hunters don't.
No matter how much deer sign we may find via "boots on the ground" scouting, no matter how many trail cam pics (including extremely recent ones from cell cams), once humans go into areas they normally don't on a year-round frequent basis, the deer are moving over to nearby less disturbed areas. This is even more the case with mature bucks which tend to tolerate much less out-of-the-daily ordinary disturbances. They tend to just move over and become more nocturnal.
Never mind those deer may be stepping foot into 2 to 5 square miles during a single night, and "moving over" just means they're altering their routes & bedding areas to avoid any non-routine human activity encountered, including new aromas & sounds, not just seeing hunters/scouters walking around.
Interestingly, the deer seem little bothered by the presence of trail cams.
And it can be those trail cams that actually reduces the human activity deer find more disturbing.
BSK
Well-Known Member
I completely agree with this. And although it may sound crazy, instead of "staying out of areas I plan to hunt" I make a point of trying to be all over my place all year round. By staying out, deer quickly notice your presence once you start to hunt. If your scent is there all year round, deer have gotten used to it and don't see you as such a threat.
BPhunter
Well-Known Member
Where I live is tens of thousands of acres of wilderness with homes scattered here and there. We are at 7350' elevation in south central Colorado. I have deer, elk, bear, coyotes, mountain lions, fox, turkey come through my property regularly. Deer on a daily basis. Elk not as often, but you see them pretty frequent on property around me. Mountain lion are less likely to show themselves. You can call in fox pretty frequent. Bear show up helter skelter. Turkey are like rabbit....you see them when you see them. Now we do alot of work on this property and we are active all over it!!! So the theory that an area that is scouted is running off animals, doesn't hold water!! We scout the areas we hunt and we don't come home empty handed unless the weather pattern changes there habitat. Less water, less feed in an area will drive animals to other areas with food and water.
I believe you are 100% correct on the scouting. I been deer hunting for over 50 years and back in the day we had to scout we didn't have trail cameras. I have never owned a trail camera and never will, I don't blame anybody that does just not for me.
Snake
Well-Known Member
Why would you do that ? You ever heard of Karma ? Well I don't believe in Karma but reaping what you sowed that I do believe in because it's inbthe Bible. You wouldn't want someone rummaging through your truck would you ?
Snake
Well-Known Member
Thats why they are still there . That's what bugs me. If you can take it in you can take it out when you're through hunting .
