What’s wrong with our sport

[Plateau Hunter]

Setterman you would lose that bet about my grandaddy....he was dirt poor but had a nice LC Smith 12 ga 30" f&f and was an accomplished turkey hunter. My first cousin has the LC Smith to this day but Grandaddy's wing bone yelper disappeared along the way. Turkeys were his big game as there were no deer. He hunted the southern plateau in Coffee, Grundy, Marion, and Franklin counties. He had no camo as far as I know; he had an old brown hunting coat. His cleaning rod was made out of a sourwood sprout. What I was trying to point out is that you are using some high tech state of the art equipment while holding and expressing strong opinions about how others 'should' turkey hunt in some sort of self determined traditional manner. A lot of irony there it seems to me. Legal manner and means should be the determining factor in my opinion and let every hunter determine their personal equipment. Me.....not that it makes any difference-M2 12, TSS or LB, hand made box call, no blind, no decoys(have tried them in the past), camo clothing....

 

[SEC]

Ole "fast fire" is the classic example of an elitist Ahole.

 

[hayden01]

Setterman, have you ever done much turkey hunting in the bottoms of west tn?

 

[Andy S.]

I enjoy this thread every year as it definitely ruffles some feathers amongst the audience, and generates discussion, some welcome, some not so much, but all tolerable.

Setterman is very firm and unwavering in his opinion about traditional spring turkey hunting/calling/imitating a hen with a hen call only, resulting in the gobbler slowly, keenly and wisely seeking out the hunter's position/set up. There is nothing wrong with that. My question to those who vehemently oppose his position, is WHY do you oppose it? It isn't because he said so, it isn't because he is an elitist, it is something bigger than that. What I am getting at here is have you tried it with just a call in the timber? At least once? Every other kill maybe? Have you tried it and failed miserably? Have you tried it and decided it takes too much time and has too big of a learning curve? I could relate to all of those scenarios at one time in the my turkey hunting career. If you have not AT LEAST tried it, you are missing out on a very addictive, nerve wrecking and rewarding experience, and in my opinion, the ultimate game of chess. If nothing more, I hope these threads do at least push some to attempt it, here and there at first, then more so over time, and hopefully see the more traditional side of the turkey hunting experience. If you ever try it, get the hang of it, and become at least partially successful at it, there will be no turning back. Good luck in the spring woods and give it a whirl, and best of luck beating the ol' tom at his own game.

 

[Setterman]

Setterman you would lose that bet about my grandaddy....he was dirt poor but had a nice LC Smith 12 ga 30" f&f and was an accomplished turkey hunter. My first cousin has the LC Smith to this day but Grandaddy's wing bone yelper disappeared along the way. Turkeys were his big game as there were no deer. He hunted the southern plateau in Coffee, Grundy, Marion, and Franklin counties. He had no camo as far as I know; he had an old brown hunting coat. His cleaning rod was made out of a sourwood sprout. What I was trying to point out is that you are using some high tech state of the art equipment while holding and expressing strong opinions about how others 'should' turkey hunt in some sort of self determined traditional manner. A lot of irony there it seems to me. Legal manner and means should be the determining factor in my opinion and let every hunter determine their personal equipment. Me.....not that it makes any difference-M2 12, TSS or LB, hand made box call, no blind, no decoys(have tried them in the past), camo clothing....

Great respect for your grandfather and his gear and approach. I have issues with methods or products that allow a non skilled hunter to have a huge amount of success. I also have an issue with decoys that they literally turn unkillable birds into suicide bombers. Blinds make it so laughably easy that it's the go to for kids who can't sit still which is fine but adults should challenge themselves. These tools I rail against I feel cross the line of fair chase and also water down the traditional approach of using a call, gun and natural cover. I value this approach and will continue to express my views and desire for this sport to remain as it was when some of us started

 

[Setterman]

Setterman, have you ever done much turkey hunting in the bottoms of west tn?

I have and really enjoyed it, and have been blessed to hunt River bottom birds all over the south. Some of my favorite terrain

 

[Roost 1]

I enjoy this thread every year as it definitely ruffles some feathers amongst the audience, and generates discussion, some welcome, some not so much, but all tolerable.

Setterman is very firm and unwavering in his opinion about traditional spring turkey hunting/calling/imitating a hen with a hen call only, resulting in the gobbler slowly, keenly and wisely seeking out the hunter's position/set up. There is nothing wrong with that. My question to those who vehemently oppose his position, is WHY do you oppose it? It isn't because he said so, it isn't because he is an elitist, it is something bigger than that. What I am getting at here is have you tried it with just a call in the timber? At least once? Every other kill maybe? Have you tried it and failed miserably? Have you tried it and decided it takes too much time and has too big of a learning curve? I could relate to all of those scenarios at one time in the my turkey hunting career. If you have not AT LEAST tried it, you are missing out on a very addictive, nerve wrecking and rewarding experience, and in my opinion, the ultimate game of chess. If nothing more, I hope these threads do at least push some to attempt it, here and there at first, then more so over time, and hopefully see the more traditional side of the turkey hunting experience. If you ever try it, get the hang of it, and become at least partially successful at it, there will be no turning back. Good luck in the spring woods and give it a whirl, and best of luck beating the ol' tom at his own game.

For the most part it takes years to learn how to hunt by the methods you mention not to mention unsuccessful hunt after unsuccessful hunt. Failure isn't cool, isn't accepted, and it doesn't get any likes on social media. For these reasons it's much cooler to sit in blind with decoys, while playing on your phone, maybe calling every once in a while, maybe not and basically hunt them like deer. With today's decoys, if you sit a field long enough a gobbler will likely walk by within 70yds and "BOOM" hero shot on FB. It's that easy!! I love to hunt birds in the woods, ultimate chess match especially if they have hens. I don't expect this way of hunting to gain popularity, instead the hunting shows and marketing are tipping the scales the other way quick, fast, and in a hurry.

 

[woodsman04]

I enjoy this thread every year as it definitely ruffles some feathers amongst the audience, and generates discussion, some welcome, some not so much, but all tolerable.

Setterman is very firm and unwavering in his opinion about traditional spring turkey hunting/calling/imitating a hen with a hen call only, resulting in the gobbler slowly, keenly and wisely seeking out the hunter's position/set up. There is nothing wrong with that. My question to those who vehemently oppose his position, is WHY do you oppose it? It isn't because he said so, it isn't because he is an elitist, it is something bigger than that. What I am getting at here is have you tried it with just a call in the timber? At least once? Every other kill maybe? Have you tried it and failed miserably? Have you tried it and decided it takes too much time and has too big of a learning curve? I could relate to all of those scenarios at one time in the my turkey hunting career. If you have not AT LEAST tried it, you are missing out on a very addictive, nerve wrecking and rewarding experience, and in my opinion, the ultimate game of chess. If nothing more, I hope these threads do at least push some to attempt it, here and there at first, then more so over time, and hopefully see the more traditional side of the turkey hunting experience. If you ever try it, get the hang of it, and become at least partially successful at it, there will be no turning back. Good luck in the spring woods and give it a whirl, and best of luck beating the ol' tom at his own game.

For the most part it takes years to learn how to hunt by the methods you mention not to mention unsuccessful hunt after unsuccessful hunt. Failure isn't cool, isn't accepted, and it doesn't get any likes on social media. For these reasons it's much cooler to sit in blind with decoys, while playing on your phone, maybe calling every once in a while, maybe not and basically hunt them like deer. With today's decoys, if you sit a field long enough a gobbler will likely walk by within 70yds and "BOOM" hero shot on FB. It's that easy!! I love to hunt birds in the woods, ultimate chess match especially if they have hens. I don't expect this way of hunting to gain popularity, instead the hunting shows and marketing are tipping the scales the other way quick, fast, and in a hurry.

I have actually audibly laughed and said to myself several times after a mid morning showdown in the hardwoods, "he kicked my ass again" and laugh about it.
It's what the disease I have is and what makes me take off work,be late for work, leave work early.
It's also what drives my wife crazy.

There is absolutely nothing sporting at all about sitting in a blind in a big Ag field with a decoy spread waiting for a bird to come up there.

A turkeys number one defense is his eyes. The sport is to using terrain or natural cover to set up in a spot where he comes to look for you and isn't visible until he's in shotgun range. Set up wrong and you don't get a shot, or he hangs up at 60 yards because he doesn't see a hen, or you spook him because you scratch your nose because sweat is running down it. Use the crutch of decoys and blinds and it eliminates everything I just mentioned and in fact makes it easier. Just because it's easy and legal doesn't make it right. Use the crutch of ultra long range 3-1/2" shells and shoot him at 70 yards.

I honestly don't care who used decoys and blinds or not. What bothers me is the kill at all cost and limit out within 5 days of the season and think your great because you decoyed and fanned up everything. I do not believe in betting and gambling, but if I did I'd bet my house that 50% of this crowd couldn't kill a virgin two year old with just a gun, calls and camo.

I think if some of you would try it you would like it. Also it helps to read and listen to folks like Tom Kelly's "Tenth Legion" or just listen to the stories of ole Ben Lee. Two true old school turkey hunters.


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[Roost 1]

Woodsman, no telling how many times I've walked back to the truck madder than a hornet after getting my tail kicked.
Especially after making a mistake that I knew better than to do. Sure is hard to sit there and not not call after he's been fired up and then goes quiet. You kno either he's coming or leaving... it's a test of patience for sure.

 

[Shooter77]

Someone please post that famous pic of Babe Ruth with a turkey in one hand and a Auto 5 in the other. Proving once and for all there was a huntable population in our grandpappys time somewhere.

My point stands that n matter the weapon or the sight I use, it in no way provides some massive advantage. As I said my kills would be the same if I was forced to use a single shot with no beads at all. The only thing that would affect my production would be putting a bow in my hands, that would definitely make a difference.

Now can the decoy blind crowd honestly say that it has no impact in improving success?

I'll also put out an open invite once KY opens to any of you field jedi's to take a ride over and show me how to conquer some field turkeys wth hens, without using decoys. I'm pretty good at it, but could always learn from you all that say decoys and blinds provide no advantage.

Respect your views and opinion on most stuff, but I will have to call BS on that statement above! You have a high end pistol grip shotgun, red dot sight, I'm sure some turkey specific choke and i wouldn't dought that you are shooting TSS or some long range turkey shells. I would say that's why people think your an elitest Ahole, when you comment saying it doesn't provide you any type of advantage. I could care less what anyone hunts will as long as they are legal methods. Hell my home state of VA allows rifles during spring season. As much as a i despise someone rolling up to a field and shooting strutting tom 200 yards away, i'm not going to bash someone for it cause it's legal.

 

[Andy S.]

Hell my home state of VA allows rifles during spring season. As much as a i despise someone rolling up to a field and shooting strutting tom 200 yards away, i'm not going to bash someone for it cause it's legal.

I was aware of this, but it is still mind blowing to me.

 

[Setterman]

Someone please post that famous pic of Babe Ruth with a turkey in one hand and a Auto 5 in the other. Proving once and for all there was a huntable population in our grandpappys time somewhere.

My point stands that n matter the weapon or the sight I use, it in no way provides some massive advantage. As I said my kills would be the same if I was forced to use a single shot with no beads at all. The only thing that would affect my production would be putting a bow in my hands, that would definitely make a difference.

Now can the decoy blind crowd honestly say that it has no impact in improving success?

I'll also put out an open invite once KY opens to any of you field jedi's to take a ride over and show me how to conquer some field turkeys wth hens, without using decoys. I'm pretty good at it, but could always learn from you all that say decoys and blinds provide no advantage.

Respect your views and opinion on most stuff, but I will have to call BS on that statement above! You have a high end pistol grip shotgun, red dot sight, I'm sure some turkey specific choke and i wouldn't dought that you are shooting TSS or some long range turkey shells. I would say that's why people think your an elitest Ahole, when you comment saying it doesn't provide you any type of advantage. I could care less what anyone hunts will as long as they are legal methods. Hell my home state of VA allows rifles during spring season. As much as a i despise someone rolling up to a field and shooting strutting tom 200 yards away, i'm not going to bash someone for it cause it's legal.

I shoot lead #5's , and my rig provides no advantage from the perspective of bringing that bird to me inside 30 yards. It doesn't pick my set up, it doesn't make the calls that convince a bird to come to me, it doesn't hide my movement, and it doesn't cause a henned up field bird to charge at the sight of it.

What advantage do you think it provides?

I'd happily tote a side by side with a modified barrel and have equal success. The gun doesn't change that, period.

With the kill at all cost approach so many things are lost. Picking a good set up for one. I can't count how many times a piss poor set up has cost me a bird, there's no worry when you get put a blind in the middle of a field and any bird that sees your decoys is likely dead.

You don't have to worry about the slightest movement costing a kill. I can't count how many times the slightest head turn has sent a bird running, in a blind this isn't a concern

Killing henned up field birds is now fairly easy. Without a blind or decoys these birds are brutally hard to kill.

Dealing with wide open woods early season now is no issue, you don't have to try to move using terrain and cover. Plop your blind out and wait.

I could go on and on, about how many variables and challenges the instant gratification approach removes, many of which make the hunt vastly more difficult and ultimately fun. I love killing turkeys, but I also love the days when I get destroyed by a tough bird, make a mistake, or get one step closer to calling in that field bird sans decoys and blinds. This sport is all about the chess match, the moving, repositioning, and calling that bird inside 30 yards. It's just that simple

The new generation doesn't care about that, they don't seem to care about learning, being challenged or going home empty because they lost the battle.

That's what bothers me, and I'll make no apologies for not agreeing with this approach

 

[scn]

Well said! The concept of "paying your dues" while you learn how to be successful in calling one up is a totally foreign concept for a lot of our "new" turkey killers. If they can't get their "grip and grin" for Faceplant every time they hit the fields, then they don't want to fool with it. Instant gratification is killing this country in a lot of ways.

 

[Shooter77]

Hell my home state of VA allows rifles during spring season. As much as a i despise someone rolling up to a field and shooting strutting tom 200 yards away, i'm not going to bash someone for it cause it's legal.

I was aware of this, but it is still mind blowing to me.

Yeah it really sucks! I would love to see this changed. back in mid 90's, i had some activities going on one AM, so I went hunting at 10:30 (VA closes at 12:00). about 11 i heard sirens and helicopter heading a few miles down the river. Turns out, a father and son were hunting and some guy with a rifle shot the dad about 125 yards away and killed him. I walked into my property one AM just as it was getting light heading to a gobbling tom in the tree and walked up on a guy with a 270 Win waiting on the bird. Caught him a second time later in the season.

 

[megalomaniac]

Roost alluded to it...

I'm afraid Facebook is the root of the evil in this sport.

 

[bloodtrailing]

A few people want to hunt turkeys, a lot of people want to shoot turkeys.

 

[Mike Belt]

This posting is right on schedule from the same "ideal" posts as in the past 4 or 5 years. I still don't know that it's swayed any old or new hunters from their positions. Following are some of the things I've experienced from turkey hunting; usually from no pre-season scouting and based on hunting territory I was already familiar with.

Opening morning usually finds me on a ridge at daybreak. It may be in solid timber or it may be hanging over fields or bottoms below. Either way from here I can hear gobbling birds at a greater distance and begin my hunt. Often times birds are roosted in different directions so making a decision on which way to head is my first for the season. I try to cut the distance before fly down. Sometimes I can and sometimes I can't without being detected. If I do and the birds are talking on the roost the next decision comes in picking a set up location. Will they drop down to the ground in front of me, to the next ridge, directly into the fields or bottoms below, or do they sail away to unknown places? Do I call or not, and how much calling might be needed and just how loud or soft? Generally the birds will let you know if your decisions were right or wrong. If I guessed right then great. I just learned something. If I guessed wrong then that's alright as well. I'm about to learn something although I'm going to have to work and pay attention to gain that knowledge. Sometimes the birds are pretty consistent in where they roost. Sometimes they aren't. When they are many times they may be prone to follow the same routes headed into their feeding/nesting/strutting areas. Back to back hunts with the birds doing the same thing will generally let me know where and how and dictate my future setups. I figure if a bird does the same thing 3 days in a row he's a dead bird walking. You can almost set your watch by them. Sometimes they do something different and each day is an entirely new game rather than a reset from the day before. Sometimes they are really talkative. Sometimes they aren't. Some days they disappear from the earth entirely. Some of them are new to the game and readily work to a call. Some have played the game before and aren't so easily duped. They're the professors of Gobbler Academy. Those I cuss. After a long, exhausting hunt with no kills to show for it those are also the ones I admire the most. Matching wits with them is the ultimate turkey hunting experience and killing one of them shows that you were paying attention in class... or that you are very lucky. Those are the ones that really teach the height of accomplishment or more often than not, humility.

I could have just gone to a field where I have seen birds working in the past, set up my decoy, and waited on nature to takes it's course. I have in the past and may do so again in the future. Who knows? If I had and that's the only way I hunted I would have missed out on all the above mentioned and much, much more and that's what makes me a turkey hunter.

 

[Andy S.]

Hell my home state of VA allows rifles during spring season. As much as a i despise someone rolling up to a field and shooting strutting tom 200 yards away, i'm not going to bash someone for it cause it's legal.

I was aware of this, but it is still mind blowing to me.

Yeah it really sucks! I would love to see this changed. back in mid 90's, i had some activities going on one AM, so I went hunting at 10:30 (VA closes at 12:00). about 11 i heard sirens and helicopter heading a few miles down the river. Turns out, a father and son were hunting and some guy with a rifle shot the dad about 125 yards away and killed him. I walked into my property one AM just as it was getting light heading to a gobbling tom in the tree and walked up on a guy with a 270 Win waiting on the bird. Caught him a second time later in the season.

IMO, that ONE DEATH is too many, and the regulation should be be reviewed, if nothing more, from a safety standpoint. I just do not see how anyone who truly understands the ground game of turkey hunting can vote for allowing rifles to be legal. Again, mind blowing.

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . VA allows rifles during spring season. . . . . i'm not going to bash someone for it cause it's legal.

I was aware of this, but it is still mind blowing to me.

Prostitution is legal in Nevada,
but if my son-in-law engages in that "legal" activity there,
I'm still going to bash him, maybe like bash in his head?

IMO, that ONE DEATH is too many, and the regulation should be be reviewed, if nothing more, from a safety standpoint. I just do not see how anyone who truly understands the ground game of turkey hunting can vote for allowing rifles to be legal. Again, mind blowing.

Totally Agree with you, Andy.

 

[TheLBLman]

I'd happily tote a side by side with a modified barrel and have equal success.
The gun doesn't change that, period.

Those inexperienced (and/or unsuccessful) with "traditional" turkey hunting
will have a tough time understanding this,
but what Setterman says here is true.

IMO, most "traditional" turkey hunters would kill 95% as many turkeys as they kill
even if they were using a factory "full" or factory "modified" choke
and loading their guns with dove loads.

Once you have a strutting Tom within 30 yards (which is how most are killed "traditionally")
the least important aspect of what matters becomes the gun and/or the shells
and/or whether the "sight" is a front bead only or some optical sight.

Optical sights do provide somewhat an aid for aging eyes,
which start having trouble quickly focusing on both the sights & the turkey,
very unlike the eyes of our younger days.

In fact, I continue to believe, at least in terms of "traditional" turkey hunting
more hunters might come home with a turkey if they were in fact using a more open choke
instead of having so much emphasis on long-range custom chokes and loads.