I agree Setterman! Like Andy if I could vote decoys and fans out tomorrow I would just my two cents. I live and grew up about a rock throwing distance from the gates of catoosa wma that's where I cut my teeth turkey hunting at a young age. Zero decoys or blinds or fans, I rarely ever won the battle starting out but I had a burning desire and passion to be like the old timers that I looked up to. When You finally get it figured out so to speak the chess match is a addiction! I have since then used decoys for a short time period on some private cattle farms and just can't stand packing them around and the trance it puts them in as they leave there hens coming to fight. I just personally choose to play the game that I grew to love as a kid that's my passion!
-
Help Support TNDeer:
What’s wrong with our sport
- Thread starter Setterman
- Start date
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I think that's a very fair question, and your point well taken.TNReb":3m9fbneg said:
By the way, over the years, I've experimented with decoys, seen others experiment with them.
Most of the time, I'm not using a decoy, as I see them doing more to harm than help my hunting.
Simply having a decoy with you, even if not used, can reduce stealth and mobility.
Another decoy issue no one has mentioned, but happens frequently:
Decoys will frequently get placed canted, get blown over by wind, and just otherwise look unnatural at times,
no matter how realistic they may look otherwise. They then become more likely to turn a bird than attract a bird.
Most hunters then get up and re-do their decoy, never realizing they may have just exposed themselves to birds in the distance.
Never mind, even with a perfect decoy placement, about as often as not, turkeys will simply show a distant curiosity, and stop coming your way upon seeing a decoy.
My main reason for occasionally using a hen decoy is to enhance shot placement when I'm calling up a bird for someone else. Sometimes it works, sometimes it spooks the bird I'm calling in. But if the bird comes in, he will typically hang around longer and offer more good shooting opportunities. This can especially benefit a bowhunter or a less experienced hunter. But a key point is that most of the time, I'm still calling in that bird, and the decoy's main benefit is to make him hang longer in the most ideal spot for a clean kill.
That said, I'd personally not miss a beat if decoys were outlawed, and usually don't use them anyway when hunting solo and/or run & gun. It's just that in many instances, the amount of acreage is too small for run & gun style, imo. Even hunting large acreage public land, sometimes run & gun isn't the best style, and I do more sitting than walking, just usually without a burdensome decoy.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
The problem with the new style of turkey killing is that it is NOT turkey hunting.
Turkey hunting is all about imitating a hen or sometimes a challenging male with calls. The new reaping craze is just crawl into their comfort zone, pop the fan, then blast them in the body at 10 yard when they come running in. Tons don't even carry calls, just fans.
Now don't get me wrong.... I'm not a holier than thou.... I LOVE my hen decoy right off the roost.... but I'm spending a couple hours the evening before the hunt, roosting a bird often to the exact tree, then going in on him in the pitch black dark the next morn and setting up around 60 yds away.
If his hens lead him away that morn ( which is what usually happens), then I'm off running and gunning till 5pm looking for others to chase. At that point, decoys just slow me down and are not as effective as calling and woodmanship skills.
But when all is said and done, I think everyone would have more encounters with birds and yet more would survive the season if all decoys were outlawed. Especially the newer strutting/reaping decoys.
Sent from my SCH-R970X using Tapatalk
Turkey hunting is all about imitating a hen or sometimes a challenging male with calls. The new reaping craze is just crawl into their comfort zone, pop the fan, then blast them in the body at 10 yard when they come running in. Tons don't even carry calls, just fans.
Now don't get me wrong.... I'm not a holier than thou.... I LOVE my hen decoy right off the roost.... but I'm spending a couple hours the evening before the hunt, roosting a bird often to the exact tree, then going in on him in the pitch black dark the next morn and setting up around 60 yds away.
If his hens lead him away that morn ( which is what usually happens), then I'm off running and gunning till 5pm looking for others to chase. At that point, decoys just slow me down and are not as effective as calling and woodmanship skills.
But when all is said and done, I think everyone would have more encounters with birds and yet more would survive the season if all decoys were outlawed. Especially the newer strutting/reaping decoys.
Sent from my SCH-R970X using Tapatalk
One feller on this discussion last year said hunting with calls was EASY and hunting with decoys was harder. "I can go out and easily kill with just a call, but sometimes decoys don't work." I have never ever in my turkey hunting life heard anyone else ever say that turkey hunting was easy the traditional way. You cannot convince me that decoys have not been a detriment to both the turkey population and to the sport of turkey hunting. Used to be that turkey hunting videos taught at least something about hunting turkeys. Now it's about how to put in a good plot to attract them, put your blind in the right spot and stick your decoy in the ground close enough to your blind. I learned quite a bit from Will Primos and Toxy Haas until I got enough time in the woods under my belt. I can appreciate what LBL said about only being able to hunt small plots of land and decoys being the only way to kill one...but why is pulling the trigger THAT important? I usually take several kids out including my own each spring, and they hunt how I hunt. If that means walking through a creek and up the ridge they do it. If it means sitting against a tree for a couple hours they do it. If it means we don't even hear or see a bird they do it. They WANT to go! It's almost become a thing now to get to go with me. I have used a strutter twice when an old college friend brought one a couple years ago. Two hunts that lasted all of maybe an hour total and 4 longbeards killed. I know they don't always work, but we used to take half the day to double up back in the day 20 years ago IF we doubled at all. The use of decoys in the early season on henned up field birds is really putting the hurt on the population.
Hunting turkeys is "easy"? I must be a terrible turkey hunter, I've never found it to be easy.
Hunting turkeys is "easy"? I must be a terrible turkey hunter, I've never found it to be easy.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Just to clarify, I was not saying using a decoy necessarily changed anything other than often causing a Tom to spend a few more seconds strutting or hanging in the most ideal spot for a good shot.poorhunter":11g08cau said:
More important to me, is not pulling the trigger, but making a clean head/neck shot every time the trigger is pulled.
When hunting small parcels, often, the only practical method is to go out before daylight and stay in a single location. You don't need a decoy to call up a turkey, and using a decoy will often repulse one. But when one comes in, they will usually "check out" that decoy, providing additional time for making a clean head/neck shot. IMO, this can be advantageous for the less experienced, and sometimes the experienced as well. Even more true for a bowhunter.
In fact, when I do use a decoy, I often semi-"hide" that hen, where she's not even visible from much distance. Often, about all that's visible is the decoy's head, but that's enough to hold a Tom's attention once he's already been called in.
When we "run & gun" with the more traditional style of turkey hunting, we're typically "sitting" when we call up a turkey?
Sometimes sitting for a long time? How many "set-ups" in a morning?
Biggest mistake of most is not sitting long enough with each sit?
When hunting a small tract, the only thing being changed is cutting out so much re-locating, typically staying put in a single location, rather than changing locations. Otherwise, much about it is the same.
Boll Weevil
Well-Known Member
Read some of the language used in the ads in the catalog Setterman posted:
"...amazingly effective."
"...drives male turkeys nuts and they have no reservation about approaching her."
"Trigger a quick response..."
"No strings, no pulleys, just results!"
The ads don't attempt to even thinly veil that their focus isn't at all on hunting turkeys. Marketing experts for any given product or service know how to trigger a purchase. They target consumers who are likely to purchase and know precisely what sales pitch to deliver that will yield a sale. The selling of plastic turkeys seems now more akin to offering up an easy button to targeted consumers.
Traditional turkey hunting can indeed be hard at times but every spring I remind myself, "Sometimes it's supposed to be that way."
"...amazingly effective."
"...drives male turkeys nuts and they have no reservation about approaching her."
"Trigger a quick response..."
"No strings, no pulleys, just results!"
The ads don't attempt to even thinly veil that their focus isn't at all on hunting turkeys. Marketing experts for any given product or service know how to trigger a purchase. They target consumers who are likely to purchase and know precisely what sales pitch to deliver that will yield a sale. The selling of plastic turkeys seems now more akin to offering up an easy button to targeted consumers.
Traditional turkey hunting can indeed be hard at times but every spring I remind myself, "Sometimes it's supposed to be that way."
String Music
Well-Known Member
I'll be honest, for years I used decoys on every hunt because I thought that was turkey hunting. I honestly didn't know any better. I grew up in a family of deer hunters so I'm a self-taught turkey hunter. Also, the property I hunt (which Setterman knows well) is loaded with fields and this is where the majority of the turkeys roost and spend much of their day.
Based on the videos I watched and magazines I read, I thought everyone used decoys. It wasn't until Setterman and I got into a spat on here many years ago that I really realized there was another, more fulfilling method.
I haven't killed a gobbler over a decoy in years. However, I still own a few and pull them out when I take certain people. I do enjoy watching a dominate field gobbler get blasted in the face.
So, it may be ignorance as much or more as the desire to just punch tags.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Based on the videos I watched and magazines I read, I thought everyone used decoys. It wasn't until Setterman and I got into a spat on here many years ago that I really realized there was another, more fulfilling method.
I haven't killed a gobbler over a decoy in years. However, I still own a few and pull them out when I take certain people. I do enjoy watching a dominate field gobbler get blasted in the face.
So, it may be ignorance as much or more as the desire to just punch tags.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
String Music
Well-Known Member
Most of the videos I've watched lately has a hunter carrying a bag of decoys over his should. That would get on my last nerve. I killed most of my gobblers over a foam half-strut decoy that rolled up in my vest and did not look nearly as realistic as the ones out today.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Atchman2
Well-Known Member
When I am archery hunting I use blinds and decoys. I have to have something to take their eyesoff me.
Honestly? I dont have an issue with anyone wanting to get a turkey. I hunted four years before I got my first bird. It was special. No decoys or blinds but I did use a shotgun (shame).
Since then Im pretty much an archery hunted kn lands that I know. The first time on a land Im usually carrying my calls my shotgun and that advantage of something to sit.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Honestly? I dont have an issue with anyone wanting to get a turkey. I hunted four years before I got my first bird. It was special. No decoys or blinds but I did use a shotgun (shame).
Since then Im pretty much an archery hunted kn lands that I know. The first time on a land Im usually carrying my calls my shotgun and that advantage of something to sit.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Right there with ya.TNReb":m5aena7i said:
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
It's all a matter of perspective, such as how the game should be played, what is the "sport"?
Take golf, for example.
The tradition is it's played a certain way.
Tiger Woods may be to the traditional "sport" or "game" of golf
what Setterman is to the traditional "sport" or "game" of turkey hunting,
emphasis on "hunting".
Simply walking over to a hole, dropping a golf ball in,
then posting on Facebook, "I got a hole in one!".
That be true, but it doesn't require the same skill sets.
Take golf, for example.
The tradition is it's played a certain way.
Tiger Woods may be to the traditional "sport" or "game" of golf
what Setterman is to the traditional "sport" or "game" of turkey hunting,
emphasis on "hunting".
Simply walking over to a hole, dropping a golf ball in,
then posting on Facebook, "I got a hole in one!".
That be true, but it doesn't require the same skill sets.
Shanman
Well-Known Member
I like the "Chess Match" analogy that Newt mentioned, that sums it up best for me personally. The fact that you can literally chase the same 2-3 birds all season, learn their habits and still only get 1 or 2 opportunities.....then below it. Aggravating as heck sometimes but so much fun to play the game! I've had birds shy from decoys more on public land and rarely use one, but do use them and blinds on private land when taking a kid or new hunter. I want them to have quick success to spark the fire, from there they learn the game and about mobility. I believe decoy bags belong in duck hunting.
Just comes down to the mentality of todays world of instant gratification and "display". Being a "good" hunter to a lot of folks these days is measured in amount of kills, how they were killed makes no difference. WE as a society are all about the easy path these days, and Im just as guilty in some aspects of my life. Decoys, blinds, extended chokes and TSS make it all a bit easier than without same as centerfire rifles and new golf technology each year make other sports easier. Some of us draw a line at some point where easier goes too far. I personally dont care what equipment you decide to use, I care more about your mentality toward the sport I enjoy and the future of it. KILLING is not really the goal, nor should it be for any game hunting. IMO, it should be about learning and respecting the game you are after in all aspects and once you finally out smart that game you have such a feel of pride and accomplishment about what you achieved.
I try to always teach my kids to not take the easy way out in life and especially in hunting cause doing so you really dont learn and grow, you just used technology and simple methods to "finish" something not really achieve something. Again I dont really care if you use decoys or not, TO ME its more an issue when you depend on them to be successful. Ive used them at times and hunted for years with never owning one but some of my best and favorite hunts always have been ones where I had to make the call on set up and calling one in and realizing I made a lot of good choices that day and the reason I was victorious was all do to my knowledge of the land and animal I was after
I try to always teach my kids to not take the easy way out in life and especially in hunting cause doing so you really dont learn and grow, you just used technology and simple methods to "finish" something not really achieve something. Again I dont really care if you use decoys or not, TO ME its more an issue when you depend on them to be successful. Ive used them at times and hunted for years with never owning one but some of my best and favorite hunts always have been ones where I had to make the call on set up and calling one in and realizing I made a lot of good choices that day and the reason I was victorious was all do to my knowledge of the land and animal I was after
I'm old school, but I'm old myself, compared to todays turkey hunters. The sport of calling the bird to you seems to have changed. I started out with a 2 3/4 heavy load. 4's or 6's. I,ve killed one or two in my time. Several with a bow. However, new school doesn't bother me. There will always be change. Bigger shells, longer ranges. I'm just happy to still be able to go. To each his own. Its just more to me about calling the bird in close, than the kill. I was lucky enough as a teenager to meet the best Turkey hunter I ever knew. Red Lovell. Probably one of the top two in all of west Tn., the other being Mr. Ted Wells. Red taught me more in one season than I would have learned on my own in ten seasons. No birds, if you heard one you kept your mouth shut. Best lesson I ever learned was patience. Mighty hard to learn, especially when young. the old guys called him in. no ambushing. no decoys. just all about the sport. Once again, not knocking any ones tactics.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Same here.tickweed":3vaqoidi said:
Just used what I had, which was basically the same shells used for squirrels or ducks at the time (back when lead was legal for waterfowl).
Back in the day, of just hunting with whatever you had, I killed at least two turkeys with two different 16 ga shotguns, using 1 1/8 oz #7 1/2 LEAD. Those were my late-season "bird" loads (talking about quail). One of them was killed at a range of about 5 yards, and using the same "Sweet 16" I used for "regular" birds. Never knew any special gun or shells was needed for turkeys.
Interestingly, when I finally got a shotgun I set up mainly for turkeys, it was a side-by-side with 2 3/4" chambers,
factory bored "full" & "extra full" (no choke tubes).
Killed a lot of turkeys with it.
hayden01
Well-Known Member
If you ain't chasing the magestic mountain birds while wearing only a loin cloth and armed with one smooth stone. You ain't from sh** homeboy
Gobbler88
Well-Known Member
I have used decoys in the past and have had them work, but I've also had them hang birds up just out of range. Like most of you, I enjoy the thrill of seeing the tom looking for the source of calling. It's just more fun to me. I don't really see how holding a fan up and killing a suicide turkey is hunting. That's just my opinion, but others enjoy it. At the NWTF Convention this past weekend, there were countless fanning set ups. It really made me ask the same question. What's wrong with our sport? I think if fanning was made illegal, the majority of today's turkey "hunters" would quit. But, I am not going to knock anybody that wants to use decoys or fans. As long as it is done safely. The way I look at it is, you buy your license, hunt the way you want. I want to be able to do the same without someone giving me heck.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
At the same time,Gobbler88":37ynlp3e said:
the resource (the turkeys) are managed based largely on how many CAN be killed annually while still sustaining a huntable population for next year and the next.
About the time TWRA increased the spring turkey limit to 4 (big mistake imo), we had longer-range guns/loads coming onto the scene MUCH MORE, "fanning" starting to take off, more realistic decoys (some remote controlled), etc.
Add to this the comfort & convenience of the new "pop-up" blinds, contributing to more people staying afield longer, getting away with movement, allowing them to more easily kill more turkeys.
So what else has happened?
For starters, turkey hunting may have become more about just shooting, using turkeys as moving targets?
Ok, everyone buys a license, it's legal, I get that.
But is the current kill rate sustainable, to maintaining "good hunting" turkey populations?
And how does this focus more to just killing rather than hunting bode to the future of turkey hunting?
To some degree, it's like the rules for golf just changed to you can simply go drop the ball in the hole by hand,
then say, "Hey, I just got a hole in one!"
It's not the same as traditional golf, and neither is shooting the same as hunting.
prstide
Well-Known Member
hayden01":2gg8t2ob said:
This is my preferred method. Also use a blade of grass, tightly laced between both thumbs, as my yelper call.
