2 predictions for 2018 turkey season

[TN Whitetail Freak]

I witnesses multiple breedings today

 

[prstide]

Decent discussion a few weeks ago in this thread about some of the same:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=359977&hilit=Turkeys+dying

In my opinion the responsibility lies on both the state(commission) and the hunters. I trust a regulation/law change backed by enforcement would be more reliable than to trust the next guy to hunt with the resource in mind due to social media and hunting personalities making it sound like hunters who don't "tag out" are somehow less skilled in the woods.

 

[REN]

The outlaw of decoys will not come because that would remove a large population of license purchasers which is less money for the state. Even bama eventually caved on the same topic years back. Sure the TWRA cares about the animals but they also care how many license they sell. Someone has to pay for the new system they contracted out in recent years.

You make it to hard on novice hunters to be successful they won't buy licenses period. It's one o the reasons they have never gone to a species tag system where you could separate turkey and deer license.


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[SKFOOTER]

I've been saying for years now that we don't have the birds that we used to have. If the limit is not reduced statewide, it definitely needs to be reduced in the counties that are experiencing a decline in harvest. And require a 6 inch beard on a gobbler to make it legal with the exception being youth harvest. TWRA needs to start being proactive and stop being reactive!! :smash:

 

[Setterman]

The outlaw of decoys will not come because that would remove a large population of license purchasers which is less money for the state. Even bama eventually caved on the same topic years back. Sure the TWRA cares about the animals but they also care how many license they sell. Someone has to pay for the new system they contracted out in recent years.

You make it to hard on novice hunters to be successful they won't buy licenses period. It's one o the reasons they have never gone to a species tag system where you could separate turkey and deer license.


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I agree with your view on this, and I also find it ironic that Bama's population has been on a steady decline since the regulation change. Their hunters are just as worried as us.

What good is a game agency if they can't make changes for the betterment of the critters they're in charge of managing?

 

[deerfever]

Thanks for the insight LBL Man, I realized turkey expansion had brought turkeys into areas that previously did not have them but I just simply thought looking at the numbers for 5 years those areas where counted all 5 years in the statewide kill also. In other words if you look we have killed around 32,000 all 5 years with last year being 34,000.Just looking at it simply if our turkey population was going down as bad as some think would it not go from 32,000 to let say 29,000,28,000, 26,000? Understand I am willing to do whatever if needed. I am old school and would rather turkey hunt than any other kind of hunting. First thing I would do if needed is cut the fall season and killing of hens all together. 2. Could you start with a limit of 3 , instead of cutting it in half?. I am not arguing at all just trying to see what you guys think. By the way getting rid of decoys would not bother me in the least but I do not see that happening , that may be the only law needed to get a big reduction in kills ! Thanks for the insight as I enjoy learning from you guys!

 

[knightrider]

some of you are really grasping at straws here, remember the twra manages the whole state not just your property only you can manage the way you see fit. if you only can stand to kill two than do it,dont want to shoot hens than don't, wanna lets jakes walk let them, im telling you turkey hunting is headed the same way of deer hunting!!!!

 

[catman529]

The outlaw of decoys will not come because that would remove a large population of license purchasers which is less money for the state. Even bama eventually caved on the same topic years back. Sure the TWRA cares about the animals but they also care how many license they sell. Someone has to pay for the new system they contracted out in recent years.

You make it to hard on novice hunters to be successful they won't buy licenses period. It's one o the reasons they have never gone to a species tag system where you could separate turkey and deer license.


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I agree, outlawing decoys is not a good idea. I wouldn't be against outlawing fanning, even though it's pretty fun to do.


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[SKFOOTER]

some of you are really grasping at straws here, remember the twra manages the whole state not just your property only you can manage the way you see fit. if you only can stand to kill two than do it,dont want to shoot hens than don't, wanna lets jakes walk let them, im telling you turkey hunting is headed the same way of deer hunting!!!!

And it needs to head that way!!

 

[knightrider]

some of you are really grasping at straws here, remember the twra manages the whole state not just your property only you can manage the way you see fit. if you only can stand to kill two than do it,dont want to shoot hens than don't, wanna lets jakes walk let them, im telling you turkey hunting is headed the same way of deer hunting!!!!

And it needs to head that way!!

why?

 

[Setterman]

some of you are really grasping at straws here, remember the twra manages the whole state not just your property only you can manage the way you see fit. if you only can stand to kill two than do it,dont want to shoot hens than don't, wanna lets jakes walk let them, im telling you turkey hunting is headed the same way of deer hunting!!!!

I get your point and if there wasn't a large scale issue basically statewide I'd tend to agree. However, something is happening and there's no way to deny it and it's time to look at all options so we can make choices like the ones you list

 

[SKFOOTER]

some of you are really grasping at straws here, remember the twra manages the whole state not just your property only you can manage the way you see fit. if you only can stand to kill two than do it,dont want to shoot hens than don't, wanna lets jakes walk let them, im telling you turkey hunting is headed the same way of deer hunting!!!!

And it needs to head that way!!

why?

Because there are more turkeys in some portions of this state than there are in others. Limits as well as season dates and season lengths may have to be set based on regional harvest figures.

 

[Ironsmith-Jared]

One thing that is NEVER mentioned in these threads is hunter ownership. Just cause you can kill 4 doesn't mean you have to if an area can't support it. Sure a lot of guys don't but at the same time I've seen a lot of guys kill 4 then complain how the population keeps getting smaller and smaller lol

I make it a point to never kill more then 2 off any property I hunt and some years none off certain ones if the population is declining

Exactly!

 

[megalomaniac]

IMO, a 2 bird limit won't help. I was a BIG proponent of going back to 2 birds several years ago, but realized those areas with marginal populations of birds won't be helped. If you have 1 tom 2 jakes, 4 hens and 6 jennies in an area, without many other birds nearby.... remove the one gobbler early in the season, maybe 1 of the jakes for the second bird, and now you are completely relying on early breeding by that 1 tom before he is removed for your entire future. No chance (well, 20% chance one of the jakes becomes fertile his first year) for successful fertile renesting.

We need 1 thing, and 1 thing only for turkeys to expand... poults. Not trying to be a smart ass, but to have poults, you have to have adult males plus adult females, plus successful mating, plus successful nesting, then hatching. We can help those poults become adults by improving habitat, removing nest and poult predators. We can't control the weather at the time of hatch. The more hens you have, the more eggs, nests, and poults you get. More gobblers over what is required to produce fertile eggs (and preferably a few remaining in the population to fertilize renesting hens) is just superfluous.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, you can literally remove EVERY adult gobbler after breeding season (as long as there are some jakes left to become fertile gobblers the following year- therefore they should be protected each season) and your population won't be hurt a bit. The biggest problem we have right now is the fact that we are removing adult males before the majority of hens have been bred. Again, in areas with plenty of toms, it won't hurt a thing... But it is catastrophic in areas with marginal populations.

I'm all in favor of those arguing that hunters should manage their properties and base kills on what they see in the field. But allowing hunters to be game managers is the reason why we no longer have multiple game species that used to roam in TN. You just cant trust the general population to 'do the right thing'.

The biggest plus of going to a 2 bird limit if recommended by TWRA is that it #1- acknowledges there is a problem in many parts of the state (admitting you have a problem is the first step ), and #2- makes hunters more conscious of their harvest decisions.

I'd much prefer pushing the season back 2 weeks, eliminating jake harvest, eliminating any/ all hen harvest (bearded in spring and all hens/ jennies in the fall), and most importantly, adjusting gobbler limits based on poult/ hen ratios from 2 years prior. OFC, that last one is going to require some serious time and $$$ to get accurate numbers.

I'd be fine with outlawing all decoys, outlawing HTL shot, etc, etc... but I do agree that it may hurt the number of turkey hunters overall (which would be a good thing for the population, but as said before, a bad thing for TWRA's budget)

 

[knightrider]

some of you are really grasping at straws here, remember the twra manages the whole state not just your property only you can manage the way you see fit. if you only can stand to kill two than do it,dont want to shoot hens than don't, wanna lets jakes walk let them, im telling you turkey hunting is headed the same way of deer hunting!!!!

Because there are more turkeys in some portions of this state than there are in others. Limits as well as season dates and season lengths may have to be set based on regional harvest figures.

[/quote]
so my turkeys are going to travel to middle tn to fill your property gaps? why should my area be limited because of others, the only help will be to limit your areas where there is a propblem

 

[Stlbaseball1]

Moral of the story is there will never be enough turkeys to satisfy everyone and there will never be too few turkeys to make everyone believe there is a problem.
Forums like these are wonderful because they allow hunters to gain insight from other hunters all across this great State and also allow for good, open lines of communication for discussions that could lead to better management of our wildlife.

 

[SKFOOTER]

some of you are really grasping at straws here, remember the twra manages the whole state not just your property only you can manage the way you see fit. if you only can stand to kill two than do it,dont want to shoot hens than don't, wanna lets jakes walk let them, im telling you turkey hunting is headed the same way of deer hunting!!!!

Because there are more turkeys in some portions of this state than there are in others. Limits as well as season dates and season lengths may have to be set based on regional harvest figures.

so my turkeys are going to travel to middle tn to fill your property gaps? why should my area be limited because of others, the only help will be to limit your areas where there is a propblem[/quote]
I never said anything about "your" turkeys traveling to Middle Tennessee. And Geography must not have been your strong subject in school because I'm in West Tennessee.

 

[REN]

IMO, a 2 bird limit won't help. I was a BIG proponent of going back to 2 birds several years ago, but realized those areas with marginal populations of birds won't be helped. If you have 1 tom 2 jakes, 4 hens and 6 jennies in an area, without many other birds nearby.... remove the one gobbler early in the season, maybe 1 of the jakes for the second bird, and now you are completely relying on early breeding by that 1 tom before he is removed for your entire future. No chance (well, 20% chance one of the jakes becomes fertile his first year) for successful fertile renesting.

We need 1 thing, and 1 thing only for turkeys to expand... poults. Not trying to be a smart *****, but to have poults, you have to have adult males plus adult females, plus successful mating, plus successful nesting, then hatching. We can help those poults become adults by improving habitat, removing nest and poult predators. We can't control the weather at the time of hatch. The more hens you have, the more eggs, nests, and poults you get. More gobblers over what is required to produce fertile eggs (and preferably a few remaining in the population to fertilize renesting hens) is just superfluous.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, you can literally remove EVERY adult gobbler after breeding season (as long as there are some jakes left to become fertile gobblers the following year- therefore they should be protected each season) and your population won't be hurt a bit. The biggest problem we have right now is the fact that we are removing adult males before the majority of hens have been bred. Again, in areas with plenty of toms, it won't hurt a thing... But it is catastrophic in areas with marginal populations.

I'm all in favor of those arguing that hunters should manage their properties and base kills on what they see in the field. But allowing hunters to be game managers is the reason why we no longer have multiple game species that used to roam in TN. You just cant trust the general population to 'do the right thing'.

The biggest plus of going to a 2 bird limit if recommended by TWRA is that it #1- acknowledges there is a problem in many parts of the state (admitting you have a problem is the first step ), and #2- makes hunters more conscious of their harvest decisions.

I'd much prefer pushing the season back 2 weeks, eliminating jake harvest, eliminating any/ all hen harvest (bearded in spring and all hens/ jennies in the fall), and most importantly, adjusting gobbler limits based on poult/ hen ratios from 2 years prior. OFC, that last one is going to require some serious time and $$$ to get accurate numbers.

I'd be fine with outlawing all decoys, outlawing HTL shot, etc, etc... but I do agree that it may hurt the number of turkey hunters overall (which would be a good thing for the population, but as said before, a bad thing for TWRA's budget)

very well said and thought out! the turkey hunter in me would hate to move the season back (seems it takes forever to get here already lol) but the biologist in me totally agrees

 

[bloodtrailing]

some of you are really grasping at straws here, remember the twra manages the whole state not just your property only you can manage the way you see fit. if you only can stand to kill two than do it,dont want to shoot hens than don't, wanna lets jakes walk let them, im telling you turkey hunting is headed the same way of deer hunting!!!!

That works when someone has control over a large area. A majority of hunters do not control large tracts. It takes a broader management program than a single farm. I have a relatively large farm but the birds move on and off the property. If others waylay Fall hens then that negates anything I can do.


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[knightrider]

some of you are really grasping at straws here, remember the twra manages the whole state not just your property only you can manage the way you see fit. if you only can stand to kill two than do it,dont want to shoot hens than don't, wanna lets jakes walk let them, im telling you turkey hunting is headed the same way of deer hunting!!!!

That works when someone has control over a large area. A majority of hunters do not control large tracts. It takes a broader management program than a single farm. I have a relatively large farm but the birds move on and off the property. If others waylay Fall hens then that negates anything I can do.


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totally missed the point the state can only do whats best for the state its up to you to manage how you see fit, you cant manage your neighbors, you can only dictate what happens on your places.