• Help Support TNDeer:

Christian county Ky

Here's one that was beat up last year. His rack was broken up a little but he limped awhile and it showed up in this year's rack as extra junk and odd shape. Pretty sure he's 5yrs this year. Wouldn't score great but I'd love to get a crack at him. I love the funky racked old bucks.
 

Attachments

  • 20240806_182100.webp
    20240806_182100.webp
    724.1 KB · Views: 2
  • 20240806_182009.webp
    20240806_182009.webp
    755.4 KB · Views: 2
TheLBLman said:
This is an excellent method for trend measuring antler high-grading.

But would like to point out hunters' antler high-grading is not just about the number of mainframe tines. It is also about overall mass.

Above average anything with the antlers on a young buck typically means that buck is much more likely to be killed instead of given a pass. A common example is a 2 1/2 to 3 1/2-yr-old with an outside spread over 20" --- he's likely killed even if he has only 6 mainframe tines at 2 1/2, while he might have 8 or 9 mainframe tines by 4 1/2.
Click to expand...
I just use the <=6 and >=9 points categories because they're an easy number to assess from a summer photo census. Gross score would be more effective criteria but that is a more subjective number to judge from photos.
 
BSK said:
I've run photo censuses in southern KY and the adjoining counties of northern TN. Same buck age structure. The key is the soils of the sinkhole plain of that region. I've seen MONSTERS in the northern half of Montgomery and Robertson counties that correspond with the sinkhole plain. Soils, soils, soils...

Below is the region I am talking about. This area - on average - produces the largest bucks I've ever photo censused in the Southeast.
Click to expand...
Ok. I have to post this in hopes that someone else saw/read the same thing.

Many, many, many years ago either Field and Stream or Outdoor Life did an article (a quite lengthy one in fact) regarding a long-term study that had been done on soil quality in relation to deer quality (specifically P&Y and B&C registrants). I recall this article because I used it in my thesis in college. This was in the mid '90s, so I did say it was many yrs ago.

In that article, the research clearly indicated a path through the continental US (and other localized places in the US too) where the determination was made that very specific minerals existed in the soil. Those minerals were determined to have gotten there during the Ice Age as glaciers melted and because of those specific geologic features of those areas, those minerals remain today. They quoted many studies that had been done on both the soil and the crops grown from those soils and the minerals transferred to the crops too.

Whether or not we believe the research is not to be debated here. However, having hunted in TN since 1996, in GA from when I started until 1996, and in southern Ohio for an annual trip for the past 10 yrs, I can truly relate the findings of that article to my experiences. I do believe that there is something very different in soil types that has a direct impact and correlation to wildlife quality throughout the US.

If anyone else recalls that article and can find it, please share. If I can find my thesis copy, I know I'll have the reference in it and will pass it along if I find it. It was truly an excellent article and one that has stuck with me (as I aged 😂).
 
Most of Kentucky has "glaciated" soils, unlike most of TN.

Interestingly, the southern boundary line of those glaciated soils is very much spot on the state line between KY & TN. A few little "dips" such as in northern Stewart County (east of the Cumberland River), as well as the northern portions of a few other stateline counties (Montgomery, Robertson, Sumner).

There's a bit of a farther southwards extension (or basin) extending into Davidson & Williamson counties.

I'm not sure if it's more glaciated soils or just the "basin" effect, but Davidson & Williamson counties are producing similar same-age antler scores (when hunter high-grading isn't so much a factor) to say most middle KY counties.
 
Last edited:
BigDave12 said:
Ok. I have to post this in hopes that someone else saw/read the same thing.

Many, many, many years ago either Field and Stream or Outdoor Life did an article (a quite lengthy one in fact) regarding a long-term study that had been done on soil quality in relation to deer quality (specifically P&Y and B&C registrants). I recall this article because I used it in my thesis in college. This was in the mid '90s, so I did say it was many yrs ago.

In that article, the research clearly indicated a path through the continental US (and other localized places in the US too) where the determination was made that very specific minerals existed in the soil. Those minerals were determined to have gotten there during the Ice Age as glaciers melted and because of those specific geologic features of those areas, those minerals remain today. They quoted many studies that had been done on both the soil and the crops grown from those soils and the minerals transferred to the crops too.

Whether or not we believe the research is not to be debated here. However, having hunted in TN since 1996, in GA from when I started until 1996, and in southern Ohio for an annual trip for the past 10 yrs, I can truly relate the findings of that article to my experiences. I do believe that there is something very different in soil types that has a direct impact and correlation to wildlife quality throughout the US.

If anyone else recalls that article and can find it, please share. If I can find my thesis copy, I know I'll have the reference in it and will pass it along if I find it. It was truly an excellent article and one that has stuck with me (as I aged 😂).
Click to expand...
I would enjoy reading your entire thesis if you could find it.
 
The link between soil quality and antler growth is well documented. And I'm sure a good part of that is the minerals contained in the soil. And each soil's mineral content is determined by the parent rock it developed from (as underlying rock slowly breaks down into soil). I have no idea what minerals are in the soils of the sinkhole plain of southcentral KY and northcentral TN, but the difference in antler growth per age-class is quite obvious. I would say around 10 inches more per age-class on average than other parts of Middle TN and with a MUCH higher top-end.

The same is true of the soils derived from the limestones of the Nashville Basin. The soils in southern Davidson County and Williamson County are notorious from growing large antlers.

Much of Middle TN is underlain by limestones, but not all limestone is the same. Each layer will have a different mineral content. Some types of limestone produce better antler growth than others.
 
BSK said:
The link between soil quality and antler growth is well documented. And I'm sure a good part of that is the minerals contained in the soil. And each soil's mineral content is determined by the parent rock it developed from (as underlying rock slowly breaks down into soil). I have no idea what minerals are in the soils of the sinkhole plain of southcentral KY and northcentral TN, but the difference in antler growth per age-class is quite obvious. I would say around 10 inches more per age-class on average than other parts of Middle TN and with a MUCH higher top-end.

The same is true of the soils derived from the limestones of the Nashville Basin. The soils in southern Davidson County and Williamson County are notorious from growing large antlers.

Much of Middle TN is underlain by limestones, but not all limestone is the same. Each layer will have a different mineral content. Some types of limestone produce better antler growth than others.
Click to expand...

Pardon if I come across ignorant, but would spreading trace mineral on plots like we do lime enhance the nutritional value of the plants?
 
BSK said:
This exactly.

TN is producing better bucks because hunters are willing to pass up younger bucks. Never in a million years did I ever think I would see the day that so many hunters are willing to hold out for mature bucks, but here we are. Allow enough bucks to mature, and the "right arm" of the bell curve distribution of antler scores is going to show up more and more. 140+ mature bucks may only make up 15% of the mature age-classes, but when you produce enough mature bucks, that 15% shows up.
Click to expand...
A lot of the credit for TN producing better bucks goes to you, BSK. Your dedication to teaching a bunch of hunters sound deer management, including how to age bucks on the hoof, both on TNDeer & in lectures, has had a profound positive impact. Prior to meeting you in the late 1990s, I did just like every other deer hunter I knew: I shot the first buck that gave me the opportunity. Now, the majority of deer hunters pass baby bucks. This represents a significant shift in behavior over only 25 years! I really appreciate your efforts.
 
Ski said:
Pardon if I come across ignorant, but would spreading trace mineral on plots like we do lime enhance the nutritional value of the plants?
Click to expand...
The questions are: 1) can those trace minerals be taken up by pants in a form digestible by deer? and 2) which minerals? No one seems to know exactly what minerals and in what combinations and levels are critical to antler growth. Tiny amount of certain trace minerals are great for wildlife. Increase the amount just a little and they can be deadly.
 
BSK said:
The link between soil quality and antler growth is well documented. And I'm sure a good part of that is the minerals contained in the soil. And each soil's mineral content is determined by the parent rock it developed from (as underlying rock slowly breaks down into soil). I have no idea what minerals are in the soils of the sinkhole plain of southcentral KY and northcentral TN, but the difference in antler growth per age-class is quite obvious. I would say around 10 inches more per age-class on average than other parts of Middle TN and with a MUCH higher top-end.

The same is true of the soils derived from the limestones of the Nashville Basin. The soils in southern Davidson County and Williamson County are notorious from growing large antlers.

Much of Middle TN is underlain by limestones, but not all limestone is the same. Each layer will have a different mineral content. Some types of limestone produce better antler growth than others.
Click to expand...
Would you say this is why there seems to be certain areas on the plateau and east TN that have the potential to produce large bucks as well? I.e. the Crossville deer killed last year. Obviously deer age is a factor as well, but mostly comes down to the type of rock in the region?
 
BSK said:
I doubt I had much influence ROB, but I've certainly tried.
Click to expand...
I think you've had a significant influence.

And you've definitely influenced me to be more careful, keep my head on a swivel, anytime I'm within a mile of one BSK! 😃 Can be dangerous to be downwind of you or within sight! 😃 Trouble & accidents follow you like lighting striking the same place twice 😃

You have to be the only guy I know whose had his ATV run over by a train, had his truck burn into an ash pile while working on a food plot, and always being bitten by a snake or something 😃
 
ROB said:
A lot of the credit for TN producing better bucks goes to you, BSK. Your dedication to teaching a bunch of hunters sound deer management, including how to age bucks on the hoof, both on TNDeer & in lectures, has had a profound positive impact. Prior to meeting you in the late 1990s, I did just like every other deer hunter I knew: I shot the first buck that gave me the opportunity. Now, the majority of deer hunters pass baby bucks. This represents a significant shift in behavior over only 25 years! I really appreciate your efforts.
Click to expand...
There is no doubt that all the discussions on tndeer over the years helped to educate and change minds about topics.
BSK said:
I doubt I had much influence ROB, but I've certainly tried.
Click to expand...
i disagree. A lot of people have benefited from your posts over the years.
 
Last edited:
HoytDawg said:
Would you say this is why there seems to be certain areas on the plateau and east TN that have the potential to produce large bucks as well? I.e. the Crossville deer killed last year. Obviously deer age is a factor as well, but mostly comes down to the type of rock in the region?
Click to expand...
Yes. For example, the soils of Fentress County are not that great, but whatever is in those soils, they grow some whoppers.
 
tree_ghost said:
I honestly think it's mostly due to social media and cell cams…people are beginning to realize what it takes to get big deer and the most important aspect is age. If you know what's in the woods and what's growing in your state you're More inclined to self impose trigger restraint on a "borderline" buck and there's no way around the fact that the vast majority of hunters want to kill big bucks PERIOD!
Click to expand...
There is zero doubt that running trail cameras has saved more bucks lives than any other single thing we've done on our place....seeing a "good" buck and being able to determine quickly which buck he is helps protect the up and comers....this and working with neighbors has really improved the quality of bucks we have an oppurtunity to hunt each year.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top