DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
Yeah actually I do....but I dont own the deer, turkey and songbirds...and I do care about whats best for wildlife.
HB 1618
- Thread starter Double-D-Team
- Start date
If choosing between excessive government restrictions or private property freedom, I'll choose the latter. You live in a state where farmers can gut shoot dozens of deer on a summer night so they run out of the field to die but if a private land owner shoots a doe to feed his family on the wrong date or with the wrong weapon he can be fined and/or lose hunting privileges. Which one is stewardship?
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
There will always be extreme examples on each end of the spectrum....the conversation started with the question..."should baiting be legal?"
I dont believe so...so, if choosing between extreme examples and sound stewardship Ill choose the latter...baiting isnt good for wildlife.
When will it be passed, or failed?
how much. is it enough to matter in this equation!!! my little bit dont really but i really dont wanna listen to a state government agency that has let our turkey population decline so bad its down to two weeks later on opening date and 2 birds less!!
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You brought up the extreme examples with this strawman argument.
Stewardship and conservation sound great but people with that mentality were the ones telling you to take a vaccine "for the common good" or "close down your business" to do your part to slow the spread. It's also weird how these great stewards always see their way of hunting as the right way. They want to tell others what weapons to use or how to hunt or how many bucks to kill or how big or old the animal should be, you know, in the name of stewardship. Their stewardship seems a lot like someone wanting to have a little control over another individual.
A private landowner will be the best steward of his land 9/10 times. The government (stewards) have annihilated much of the white-tailed deer herd in many places in the name of disease prevention. Is that a form of misguided stewardship? Nothing says stewardship like slaughtering healthy herds before they might get sick.
MickThompson
Well-Known Member
Stewardship and conservation are simply putting the wildlife and land we enjoy above our enjoyment because we want our children to enjoy it after us. "People with that mentality" are the reason you have deer and turkeys to hunt and clean water to fish in.
Stewardship isn't exclusive to any political party and it shouldn't be.
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
How much land I own doesnt change whats best for all wildlife. And the decline in turkey numbers is well documented across the southeast not just portions of Tennessee.
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
my "extreme examples" were sarcasm in reply to a post where it was said that a private landowner should be able to do whatever they want...your extreme example was about the starving folks who cant kill deer out of season...please....so back on topic...the question was asked, should baiting be legal...I think its terrible for wildlife...pretty simple.
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
Talk about a strawman argument...wow.
We clearly have different ideas of what wildlife conservation and stewardship is.
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
Well said....Thank You.
Stewardship and conservation are labels people use to push their agenda and make themselves feel good about. The labels are subjective. What's stewardship to a leftist environmentalist who doesn't own land may not jive with a landowner who owns 200 acres and enjoys to hunt. Who decides? The leftists in CA used stewardship and conservation (words that sound good) to cause a wildfire and water crisis- is that stewardship? Tens of thousands of burnt acres later, many will say no.
Ironically, in the name of stewardship CWD policies without scientific evidence have wrecked deer herds in Iowa, Wisconsin, Missouri, and some counites in TN. Hunters today aren't enjoying it and neither will their children if the policies don't stop.
The debate is individual rights or the collective. Below is the actual definition. I submit an individual landowner will do a better job than the state the majority of the time. This country was founded on individual rights and limited governmental power. It's no coincidence private property rights are one of the first things Marxists go after.
Stewardship is an ethical value that embodies the responsible planning and management of resources. It is the act of taking care of or managing something, such as property, an organization, money, or valuable objects.
how much do you own?? you are dodging the question
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
Dodging the question? Are you serious?
How about I'm not answering a question that has nothing to do with the topic of baiting....but I'll tell you this, the land I own and/or manage has had timber stand improvement projects completed which included hack-n-squirt, strategic bush hogging to promote early successional growth, created refuge areas on the property where deer have minimal pressure, planted chestnut trees, sawtooth oaks and are nursing plum trees and more chestnuts to be planted this fall...next on the to-do list is we hope to add burn units where we can burn different areas each year on a 3 to 4 year rotation. Also have a few clover food plots that benifit a variety of wildlife for many months out of the year.
What we dont do is dump corn out on the ground because its not very benefical to wildlife and the risk far outweigh any real measurable benefit.
So no matter if you own 5 acres or 5000 acres...what is good for wildlife is good and sound management practices can be applied to any property.....no matter what the size of a property.
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DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
You made the debate about individual property rights....while the orginal discussion was "should baiting be legal" and whats good for wildlife and what isnt good for wildlife. Nobody on here is against property owners rights...but plenty on here do care about whats best for wildlife....So where do you draw the line with managing wildlife? Should there be wildlife laws on private property? Yes, of course there must be laws....thats not giving up rights, thats managing a resource...and to add to this conversation, as a property owner I dont "own" the wildlife that uses my property...but I benefit from it...within the limits that are set.
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MickThompson
Well-Known Member
@Strict
In your specific example of CWD, how do you think it got to Tennessee in the first place?
It was very likely a landowner that illegally transported and released infected deer on their property, presumably in the name of individual freedom because they want big bucks like they saw on TV and who is the government to deny them that?
Most individuals will do what is "right" as long as it's in their personal best interests at the time.
In your specific example of CWD, how do you think it got to Tennessee in the first place?
It was very likely a landowner that illegally transported and released infected deer on their property, presumably in the name of individual freedom because they want big bucks like they saw on TV and who is the government to deny them that?
Most individuals will do what is "right" as long as it's in their personal best interests at the time.
What proof do you have of that? Anyone in particular you have in mind? How many tests did TN conduct on CWD in 2024? 2014? 2004? 1994? You can't say when it was introduced into TN much less where or by whom.
I agree and that certainly applies to government officials. And you can add political agendas to that. Why are egg prices so high? A handful of individuals had the power to kill millions of healthy egg laying chickens in the name of stewardship and conservation. Difference is if an individual makes a stupid conservation decision it will affect far fewer animals than a state or federal bureaucrat.
It's funny how the people who own a .5 acre lot in a subdivision know exactly how the ones who own and pay taxes on hunting land should practice conservation.
own and pay taxes is much different than "managing"
I made a one sentence statement and prepared to go back to the classifieds but you wanted clarification.
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
Exactly why baiting should not be legalized. It would be a poor conservation decision made by a state bureaucrat. Great point (for those who are not in favor of baiting)
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
Who lives on .5 acres in a subdivision?
and whos telling others how to manage their land? Not me? I'm sharing why I'm against baiting and sharing better options for all wildlife....chainsaw gas is money well spent vs. a sack of corn.
And not that its has any bearing on this conversation but I own and pay taxes on the farm where I live....and I manage our family farm that was my grandfathers and now my fathers...my farm is in greenbelt under agriculture and our family farm is in greenbelt under forestry....so I understand land ownership and paying taxes...what I dont understand is how this relates to the practice of baiting and whats best for wildlife?
