More idiots.

[catman529]

Re: More idiots.

I don't even consider those who would, knowingly, shoot at a gobbler past 40 yards, regardless of shotgun, choke, or shells. Have no respect for them as turkey hunters, period.

I fall into that category. 50 yards is my limit. I shoot 3.5" Hevishot #6s through a .660 jellyhead. I've had my forcing cone lengthened and I use a Leupold turkey scope. It will drop them like a bag of hammers at 50 yards every time. Probably farther, but 50 is my limit.

50 yards? I guess Cowman has no respect for you as a turkey hunter, period. Wonder how many people here actually care about that. It sounds like you have a killing machine...I don't trust my setup to 50 and don't even like it at 40 much. How do you get a forcing cone lengthened?


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[catman529]

Re: More idiots.

Not all new turkey hunters
Are running 4x4 decoys and taking 66 yard shots at birds. I hunted 4-5 times last year without taking my shotgun to practice my calling and concealment. Just because some are new to Turkey hunting does not mean that we are destroying the sport.

it's just a generalization. I too got into turkey hunting recently (about 6 yrs ago) and had mostly the Internet to learn from at first. I still called in my first turkey and learned some woodsmanship rather than sitting in a blind over decoys with a bunch of gimmicks. But it's true there are many out there who buy into the gimmicks, otherwise the companies wouldn't sell them so well.


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[PalsPal]

Re: More idiots.

I don't even consider those who would, knowingly, shoot at a gobbler past 40 yards, regardless of shotgun, choke, or shells. Have no respect for them as turkey hunters, period. As for the new generation of turkey bafoons, young and old, Setterman described them perfectly. A$$hats

REAL turkey hunters get them to 20 yards !

 

[Coldfusion]

Re: More idiots.

Yes a tighter choke can cause higher pressure and more velocity but it's nil. You're talking maybe 20 fps. Barrel diameter variances can even cause higher velocity. In the end it's moot. Like comparing a 26" barrel to a 22" barrel. Yeah you gain some but nothing drastic. I don't think you understand how the resin works. It doesn't stay with the shot till impact. If it did it would be like shooting a slug. It keeps the pellets from deforming on ignition. When it passes thru the choke it shatters. 1.2 ft/lbs was determined to be the minimum to penetrate a turkeys skull. Those ballistic programs take into count the mass, velocity, surface area, hardness, etc. You have to shoot #4 lead to get the same penetration as #9 tss. The #9 tss doesn't weigh as much as the #4 lead but it's mass, hardness and smaller surface area is what allows it to penetrate. You don't even need the high velocity. The 28ga load is only 1000 fps but will kill north of 40 yards. Lead deforms on impact which slows penetration. Like shooting a fmj versus a hollow point.

Please don't take it that I'm arguing. I just like a good debate [emoji2]

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This is good info. I'm not arguing with anyone just hate when opinions are presented as facts. I'm a numbers guy. That's why I said a test would make an interesting article. Thanks for posting these figures.

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[Coldfusion]

Re: More idiots.

I would argue the resin point. I don't see how it wouldn't effect the velocity. Anything that surrounds or leads a shot will effect it's ballistics. And just because it comes out at 1200fps doesn't mean that it will continue the same if there are other factors like the resin that holds the load together. The chokes can also effect this so you can't just look at the load stats. A tighter choke will cause higher pressure build up behind the load. BTW the 1.2lb/ft of pressure is that the velocity required to penetrate a birds skull?

I'm going to give a little advice. Take it or leave it. You stated you are a new turkey hunter. Yet, you are the only one arguing this point with a host of veteran turkey hunters, reloaders, choke testers, etc. I've done a lot of shotgun/choke/load testing, but I don't hold a candle to some of the guys on this thread. There is a wealth of knowledge here. Learn all you can from these guys. Arguing with them is not going to help you learn.

As for a lead shell killing turkeys at 66 yards: Can it happen? Yes. There is a "magic pellet" in every box. Should you bet on a magic pellet? Absolutely not. I don't care what you call it and how fancy the box is, lead is just lead. Shooting at a turkey with lead (or anything else) at 66 yards is foolhardy, irresponsible, and unethical. You will feed many more to the coyotes than you will ever recover. If you can live with that, I can't stop you.

I am new to Turkey hunting but no where close to new at firearms. I'm not trying to argue with anyone just stating an opposing point of view for a healthy debate. I don't know everything, but like to form opinions on facts. I never said shooting that far was a good idea, just throwing some food for thought out. Not sure why some people get so offended for opposing views to be presented. I'm completely open to people educating me if they know what they are talking about. I understand 40 is the accepted yardage. I'm just saying if your weapon system can safely and ethically do it, I'm not against it. I'm not standing against anyone here.

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[elknturkey]

Re: More idiots.

I'm heading to bama but we can go to mo if you want [emoji2] . Oh and the 1.2 isn't suppose to be foot lbs. It's 1.25" of penetration in ballistic gellatin [emoji12] . Been talking to car salesman all day trying to find a truck I want and I think they've fried my brain

Car salesmen will do that to you. Looks like my MO trip is cancalled. :cry:

How is alabama the first couple weeks? Is the public land as uncrowded as I hear?

Don't know. First year going so I'm about to find out [emoji2] .

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[catman529]

Re: More idiots.

I would argue the resin point. I don't see how it wouldn't effect the velocity. Anything that surrounds or leads a shot will effect it's ballistics. And just because it comes out at 1200fps doesn't mean that it will continue the same if there are other factors like the resin that holds the load together. The chokes can also effect this so you can't just look at the load stats. A tighter choke will cause higher pressure build up behind the load. BTW the 1.2lb/ft of pressure is that the velocity required to penetrate a birds skull?

I'm going to give a little advice. Take it or leave it. You stated you are a new turkey hunter. Yet, you are the only one arguing this point with a host of veteran turkey hunters, reloaders, choke testers, etc. I've done a lot of shotgun/choke/load testing, but I don't hold a candle to some of the guys on this thread. There is a wealth of knowledge here. Learn all you can from these guys. Arguing with them is not going to help you learn.

As for a lead shell killing turkeys at 66 yards: Can it happen? Yes. There is a "magic pellet" in every box. Should you bet on a magic pellet? Absolutely not. I don't care what you call it and how fancy the box is, lead is just lead. Shooting at a turkey with lead (or anything else) at 66 yards is foolhardy, irresponsible, and unethical. You will feed many more to the coyotes than you will ever recover. If you can live with that, I can't stop you.

I am new to Turkey hunting but no where close to new at firearms. I'm not trying to argue with anyone just stating an opposing point of view for a healthy debate. I don't know everything, but like to form opinions on facts. I never said shooting that far was a good idea, just throwing some food for thought out. Not sure why some people get so offended for opposing views to be presented. I'm completely open to people educating me if they know what they are talking about. I understand 40 is the accepted yardage. I'm just saying if your weapon system can safely and ethically do it, I'm not against it. I'm not standing against anyone here.

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Don't worry about what other people's guns can do, or all the technicality of how the lead flies through the air. Just worry about calling in your first turkey into your own effective range. Once you have that bird coming in close, you will be hooked for life. My first turkey was only 6 yards away. I've killed them as far as 50 (wont do that again) and I've missed a bunch too. But some of the most exciting hunts were when the bird was up close. There's nothing like it

 

[Roost 1]

Re: More idiots.

I'd wait until about April 1, the hunting will be better and all the AR and LA guys will have already went back home...

 

[Coldfusion]

Re: More idiots.

I would argue the resin point. I don't see how it wouldn't effect the velocity. Anything that surrounds or leads a shot will effect it's ballistics. And just because it comes out at 1200fps doesn't mean that it will continue the same if there are other factors like the resin that holds the load together. The chokes can also effect this so you can't just look at the load stats. A tighter choke will cause higher pressure build up behind the load. BTW the 1.2lb/ft of pressure is that the velocity required to penetrate a birds skull?

I'm going to give a little advice. Take it or leave it. You stated you are a new turkey hunter. Yet, you are the only one arguing this point with a host of veteran turkey hunters, reloaders, choke testers, etc. I've done a lot of shotgun/choke/load testing, but I don't hold a candle to some of the guys on this thread. There is a wealth of knowledge here. Learn all you can from these guys. Arguing with them is not going to help you learn.

As for a lead shell killing turkeys at 66 yards: Can it happen? Yes. There is a "magic pellet" in every box. Should you bet on a magic pellet? Absolutely not. I don't care what you call it and how fancy the box is, lead is just lead. Shooting at a turkey with lead (or anything else) at 66 yards is foolhardy, irresponsible, and unethical. You will feed many more to the coyotes than you will ever recover. If you can live with that, I can't stop you.

I am new to Turkey hunting but no where close to new at firearms. I'm not trying to argue with anyone just stating an opposing point of view for a healthy debate. I don't know everything, but like to form opinions on facts. I never said shooting that far was a good idea, just throwing some food for thought out. Not sure why some people get so offended for opposing views to be presented. I'm completely open to people educating me if they know what they are talking about. I understand 40 is the accepted yardage. I'm just saying if your weapon system can safely and ethically do it, I'm not against it. I'm not standing against anyone here.

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Don't worry about what other people's guns can do, or all the technicality of how the lead flies through the air. Just worry about calling in your first turkey into your own effective range. Once you have that bird coming in close, you will be hooked for life. My first turkey was only 6 yards away. I've killed them as far as 50 (wont do that again) and I've missed a bunch too. But some of the most exciting hunts were when the bird was up close. There's nothing like it

I appreciate that. I'm excited. BTW i follow your youtube channel keep up the work!

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[Spurhunter]

Re: More idiots.

It sounds like you have a killing machine...I don't trust my setup to 50 and don't even like it at 40 much. How do you get a forcing cone lengthened?

I sent my barrel to a well respected gunsmith in Massachusetts of all places. It closed up some of the holes in my pattern. Evened it out a little.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Re: More idiots.

I don't even consider those who would, knowingly, shoot at a gobbler past 40 yards, regardless of shotgun, choke, or shells. Have no respect for them as turkey hunters, period.

I fall into that category. 50 yards is my limit. I shoot 3.5" Hevishot #6s through a .660 jellyhead. I've had my forcing cone lengthened and I use a Leupold turkey scope. It will drop them like a bag of hammers at 50 yards every time. Probably farther, but 50 is my limit.

That's about my limit as well, even with handloads. And coldfusion, lead is lead resin doesn't help it at all, except to pattern better.

Barrel length and choke can have an impact on velocity, but regardless velocity starts dropping as soon as it leaves the barrel. If you want hard numbers, http://www.gobblernation.com is the place for that.

 

[Coldfusion]

Re: More idiots.

It sounds like you have a killing machine...I don't trust my setup to 50 and don't even like it at 40 much. How do you get a forcing cone lengthened?

I sent my barrel to a well respected gunsmith in Massachusetts of all places. It closed up some of the holes in my pattern. Evened it out a little.

What did he do that improved your pattern?

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[LanceS4803]

Re: More idiots.

What did he do that improved your pattern?

By lengthening the forcing cone, they are greating a smooth transition from the area in front of the chamber into the bore. This lessens the abrupt squeezing down of the wad/load into a smooth transition. The intent is to make the shot leave the muzzle more evenly and with less deformation.

 

[Spurhunter]

Re: More idiots.

What did he do that improved your pattern?

By lengthening the forcing cone, they are greating a smooth transition from the area in front of the chamber into the bore. This lessens the abrupt squeezing down of the wad/load into a smooth transition. The intent is to make the shot leave the muzzle more evenly and with less deformation.

Exactly!

:tu:

 

[Roost 1]

Re: More idiots.

However there are 2 schools of thought on this process. Some will say lengthening the forcing cone has nothing do with shooting a tight pattern but it only improves your shot string. Others say it helps the pattern. My personal opinion is that these gunsmiths have realized they can appeal to the turkey hunting crowd to get more money whereas at one time their business came strictly from wing-shooters, sporting clays, trap, skeet, etc...I have had the cone lengthened in one gun over the years and any gun I have now will out shoot that particular gun due to advancement in shells and chokes.

 

[Spurhunter]

Re: More idiots.

However there are 2 schools of thought on this process. Some will say lengthening the forcing cone has nothing do with shooting a tight pattern but it only improves your shot string. Others say it helps the pattern. My personal opinion is that these gunsmiths have realized they can appeal to the turkey hunting crowd to get more money whereas at one time their business came strictly from wing-shooters, sporting clays, trap, skeet, etc...I have had the cone lengthened in one gun over the years and any gun I have now will out shoot that particular gun due to advancement in shells and chokes.

It was definitely not a mind blowing difference before and after. I think it closed up some of the bigger holes in my pattern, but as you know, every pattern you shoot is different so it's hard to compare. My son's 870 with a 26" stock barrel will shoot just as good as my 24" with the lengthened forcing cone.

 

[edtcase]

Re: More idiots.

Not all new turkey hunters
Are running 4x4 decoys and taking 66 yard shots at birds. I hunted 4-5 times last year without taking my shotgun to practice my calling and concealment. Just because some are new to Turkey hunting does not mean that we are destroying the sport.

it's just a generalization. I too got into turkey hunting recently (about 6 yrs ago) and had mostly the Internet to learn from at first. I still called in my first turkey and learned some woodsmanship rather than sitting in a blind over decoys with a bunch of gimmicks. But it's true there are many out there who buy into the gimmicks, otherwise the companies wouldn't sell them so well.


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Agreed.

 

[Andy S.]

Re: More idiots.

Good "generalized" article about effective range for those who want to get a broader understanding of what several here are advocating.

http://www.grandslamnetwork.com/modern-turkey-loads/

As Rock stated, the guys at Gobbler Nation have been testing, testing and retesting various turkey load combinations for at least a decade, some longer. Some of the members there have forgot more about this than we'll ever grasp. It is a very worthy forum if this stuff interests you.

http://www.gobblernation.com/phpBB3/index.php

 

[Andy S.]

Re: More idiots.

Another good "generalized" article on this topic that is worth reading to better understand effective range of turkey loads.

http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/hunting/turkey_loads.htm

 

[Scud]

Re: More idiots.

First time I've been on the turkey forum in a while and I had to check the date of this thread. I see that it's just like last year at this time...if you don't do it my way your stupid, newbie, a$$hat, etc. thread has took off. :lol: :lol: :lol: